Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:44 am

gaffo wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:11 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:32 pm
Is hate good?
per extreme environments.

it might not be "good" but necessary.

Stalin/Pol Pot/Hitler/ect.

opposing (and yes hating - not loving thy enemy) such men even via Hate may be fine.

ok by me - an athiest, so not speaking for your God Sophia.
I bow to her but she is not my Goddess.

My God is I am.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by osgart » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:17 pm

I would rather people express themselves to their fullest extent, then to enforce laws against hate. Defamation of character, and not keeping the peace are the exceptions to the rule.

One can express their hate peacefully, and honestly. There is hate with justified cause, and hate with no justification. No one can love everything. And there are two different kinds of hate.

One expressing hate must show basis, relevance, and justification as is necessary for it to be civil.

Personal attacks, and blatant lies should be stamped out, not by written laws, but by civil responsiblity among the masses.

Its everyones responsibility to keep the civil peace. And if someone wants to make accusations, they should be prepared to provide evidence.

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Belinda » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:15 am

Osgart wrote:
I would rather people express themselves to their fullest extent, then to enforce laws against hate. Defamation of character, and not keeping the peace are the exceptions to the rule.
Freedom of expression is one of the civil liberties among free peoples.libel and slander are normally illegal. Keeping the peace is the difficult one. Some people are quick to take offence.


One can express their hate peacefully, and honestly. There is hate with justified cause, and hate with no justification. No one can love everything. And there are two different kinds of hate.

One expressing hate must show basis, relevance, and justification as is necessary for it to be civil.
Most people hate unreasonably from an insufficient knowledge base. God alone has a sufficient knowledge base.
Personal attacks, and blatant lies should be stamped out, not by written laws, but by civil responsiblity among the masses.
Some people feel that attacks on their beliefs are the same as or as bad as attacks on their colour, age, sex, state of health, financial status, or state of health. Identifying completely with beliefs is the mark of an ideologue.

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by gaffo » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:48 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:44 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:11 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:32 pm
Is hate good?
per extreme environments.

it might not be "good" but necessary.

Stalin/Pol Pot/Hitler/ect.

opposing (and yes hating - not loving thy enemy) such men even via Hate may be fine.

ok by me - an athiest, so not speaking for your God Sophia.
I bow to her but she is not my Goddess.

My God is I am.

Regards
DL
value understanding and discussion.

per your above????????????

so whom is you God?

not Sophia?

the only other Goddess (Germanic one - 000 AD.BC was Nurtis - is that your Goddess?) i know is the German one (--------------i guess i know of the indian Goddess of Shiva and Kali too.................to clarify)

or the "proper" understanding of Yahwah?

or El (if you do not view El as the same as one of his sons YHWH?

------------

I value discourse, but in order to discuss i must understand your views Sir ;-/.

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Greatest I am » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:25 pm

osgart wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:17 pm
I would rather people express themselves to their fullest extent, then to enforce laws against hate. Defamation of character, and not keeping the peace are the exceptions to the rule.

One can express their hate peacefully, and honestly. There is hate with justified cause, and hate with no justification. No one can love everything. And there are two different kinds of hate.

One expressing hate must show basis, relevance, and justification as is necessary for it to be civil.

Personal attacks, and blatant lies should be stamped out, not by written laws, but by civil responsiblity among the masses.

Its everyones responsibility to keep the civil peace. And if someone wants to make accusations, they should be prepared to provide evidence.
Well put.

It sounds like you are fed up with liars.
Good.
So am I, both in religions and politics.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Greatest I am » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:27 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:48 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:44 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:11 am

per extreme environments.

it might not be "good" but necessary.

Stalin/Pol Pot/Hitler/ect.

opposing (and yes hating - not loving thy enemy) such men even via Hate may be fine.

ok by me - an athiest, so not speaking for your God Sophia.
I bow to her but she is not my Goddess.

My God is I am.

Regards
DL
value understanding and discussion.

per your above????????????

so whom is you God?

not Sophia?

the only other Goddess (Germanic one - 000 AD.BC was Nurtis - is that your Goddess?) i know is the German one (--------------i guess i know of the indian Goddess of Shiva and Kali too.................to clarify)

or the "proper" understanding of Yahwah?

or El (if you do not view El as the same as one of his sons YHWH?

------------

I value discourse, but in order to discuss i must understand your views Sir ;-/.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our God "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by gaffo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:27 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:27 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:48 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:44 am


I bow to her but she is not my Goddess.

My God is I am.

Regards
DL
value understanding and discussion.

per your above????????????

so whom is you God?

not Sophia?

the only other Goddess (Germanic one - 000 AD.BC was Nurtis - is that your Goddess?) i know is the German one (--------------i guess i know of the indian Goddess of Shiva and Kali too.................to clarify)

or the "proper" understanding of Yahwah?

or El (if you do not view El as the same as one of his sons YHWH?

------------

I value discourse, but in order to discuss i must understand your views Sir ;-/.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our God "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural.

Regards
DL
I understand the above (thanks for reply BTW) - "we follow Jesus' teachings, not the icon and the other "Christians" do.

thats fine - good in fact. so that make you a non-Sualist, excellent.

however you did not actually answer my inquary as to who/whom is your God?

Gnostics viewed YHWH as evil and lesser and not actually God, but a "basterd product that only thought he was God) - son of Sophia.

You state "I am" above - well that was what YHWH said his name was to moses (s I'm sure you know).

so do you affirm YHWH as God and not Sophia? - if you do then you are not a Gnostic (IMO),

perhaps a "protognosic" aka follower of some of the works like Gosp of Thomas and - yes- even Gosp of john.

- while discounting Apocolyptic works like Revelation, and Gosp of Mark.

BTW i think Jesus was an essene (like John the Baptist (they knew each other) - both had folliowings and both preached at the same time and were of equal stature (the latter lost out to history and is now though lesser than Jesus).

Jesus, as an Essene, would have been an Apocalypticist


litterally the End of the World within 30 yrs, then the Lion will eat grass and lie with the lamb (note: this theology ties in with Essenes being Vegitarians - first thing post fall of Adam was killing of animals to provide clothing and food). and according to Jubaless (the most favored book of the Essenes BTW) - said fall of Adam, created carnivorous animals (and thus Lion's stopped eating straw and instead Lambs - but at the End Days = will return to inocence and eat straw agian (Jesus knew about Jubaless theology because he was an Essene).

BTW according to Jubaless - Man and animals could talk to each other - as equals - prior to the Fall, then a "Wall" was placed, and man could not longer talk to the animals (not addressed in the book if animals can talk to each other however - post Fall).

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Necromancer » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:11 pm

philosopher wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:55 pm
Stalin too was very popular like Putin.
I'd like to point out important differences between Stalin era and Putin era Russia:

* 1994 - Member of "Partnership for Peace" that has a strong affiliation to NATO
* 1996 - Russia became the 39th member state of the Council of Europe
* 1998 - Russia ratified the European Convention on Human Rights
* 2012 - Member of WTO (World Trade Organization)

"After the dissolution of the Soviet Union the affiliation to the Eastern Orthodox church have risen substantially and in 2015 about 71% of the population of Russia declared itself to be Eastern Orthodox, and the share of who identitied as religiously unaffiliated declined from a 61% in 1991 to 18% in 2008."
- "suggesting" a deep improvement of respect for Christian/Kantian Ethics and for Human Rights (ECHR/UDHR).
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia

Joseph Stalin has been a virtual dictator of "no-rules and no-human-rights" Soviet Union, both Communist and Atheist. Stalin is known for the genocides under his rule. Also for being a brutal idiot.

Even though Putin and Medvedev have been leading, interchangeably, by the prime minister and the president positions, I think it's not credible that there is a possibility for Russia to do very stupid things again, despite Ukraine and Georgia. The World is just too connected and the mess a military assault against a nation would make, would just be very damaging in terms of international reactions, I find.

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by gaffo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:33 pm

Necromancer wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:11 pm
I think it's not credible that there is a possibility for Russia to do very stupid things again, despite Ukraine and Georgia. The World is just too connected and the mess a military assault against a nation would make, would just be very damaging in terms of international reactions, I find.
they did two "stupid things" under Putin, so to rule out a 3rd or 4th "Stupid act" of illegal conquest of another soveriegn nation by Russia - is not off the table for me.

if it is for you - why so - you acknowledge two prior events which you and i agree were "Stupid" - and so why not a third "Stupid" act by the same man/nation in the future?

you think there was a learning of some lesson? i don't think nor see so.


Kaliningrad must be joined to the motherland.

by hook or by crook (by Lithuania's "vee Russian's are being oppressed by Fascist Lithuanians"/little green men) - I'm sure Putin will hire an imaginative story teller to tell a story for the pleabs to fall for and the weak to affirm meakly - rather then "ball-up" for ww3.

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:24 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:27 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:27 pm
gaffo wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:48 am


value understanding and discussion.

per your above????????????

so whom is you God?

not Sophia?

the only other Goddess (Germanic one - 000 AD.BC was Nurtis - is that your Goddess?) i know is the German one (--------------i guess i know of the indian Goddess of Shiva and Kali too.................to clarify)

or the "proper" understanding of Yahwah?

or El (if you do not view El as the same as one of his sons YHWH?

------------

I value discourse, but in order to discuss i must understand your views Sir ;-/.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our God "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural.

Regards
DL
I understand the above (thanks for reply BTW) - "we follow Jesus' teachings, not the icon and the other "Christians" do.

thats fine - good in fact. so that make you a non-Sualist, excellent.

however you did not actually answer my inquary as to who/whom is your God?

Gnostics viewed YHWH as evil and lesser and not actually God, but a "basterd product that only thought he was God) - son of Sophia.

You state "I am" above - well that was what YHWH said his name was to moses (s I'm sure you know).

so do you affirm YHWH as God and not Sophia? - if you do then you are not a Gnostic (IMO),

perhaps a "protognosic" aka follower of some of the works like Gosp of Thomas and - yes- even Gosp of john.

- while discounting Apocolyptic works like Revelation, and Gosp of Mark.

BTW i think Jesus was an essene (like John the Baptist (they knew each other) - both had folliowings and both preached at the same time and were of equal stature (the latter lost out to history and is now though lesser than Jesus).

Jesus, as an Essene, would have been an Apocalypticist


litterally the End of the World within 30 yrs, then the Lion will eat grass and lie with the lamb (note: this theology ties in with Essenes being Vegitarians - first thing post fall of Adam was killing of animals to provide clothing and food). and according to Jubaless (the most favored book of the Essenes BTW) - said fall of Adam, created carnivorous animals (and thus Lion's stopped eating straw and instead Lambs - but at the End Days = will return to inocence and eat straw agian (Jesus knew about Jubaless theology because he was an Essene).

BTW according to Jubaless - Man and animals could talk to each other - as equals - prior to the Fall, then a "Wall" was placed, and man could not longer talk to the animals (not addressed in the book if animals can talk to each other however - post Fall).
To believe in a real Yahweh would mean believing in the supernatural.

Gnostic Christianity does not believe in anything supernatural.

We did write a lot of supernatural into our myths, when all knew that all the supernatural Gods were myths.

This was done to enhance the seeking of God but that went to hell when the more stupid in religions started to believe their myth to represent reality.

Have a look at how intelligent the ancients were before literal reading of myths began. The second link speaks of how we think in reality.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by gaffo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:39 pm

thanks or reply - have to get beer and cigarettes first though before i reply (I dissagree with the guy in your link - i watched it - agree with too/but mostly dissagree).

I will reply in full why when i get back.

thanks for replying to me - love disscussing religion though an atheist.

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by gaffo » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:01 am

the vid you provided is the classical "mythic view" aka Richard Carrier and the other guy Ehrman debated - i.e. whether Jesus existed (jesus the man).

the guy in your vid does not think so.

i do, and that the man became more than a man from

1st. being made Son of God at his death

then a few years later

2nd being made Son of God at age 30 via his baptism by john (gosp of Mark is my fav - Jesus is the most human in this work - and why i like it).

then a few years later

3rd Jesus was born God's son (Matt/luke)

then a few years later

4th Jesus was God's son (John also claims he is God himself!) from the beginning of time.

I liked these vids (check out all the numbers from 1-10 or so - they are great and in detail about many particular books of the bible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUfAvjNydw8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdiJ793twJA

if you deny YHWH - and deny that there was a man that lived called Jesus (son of Pantera - interesting disscussion about this on one of the 10 or so vids (not in the 2 gave above - but in a couple of others by the guy speaker - another part i think in otherwords), but value the myths of jesus and the gnostiv views of some works about him, then you to me seem to be a Agnostic/Atheist that values the gnostic myths concerning jesus.

BTW Jesus is mentioned as existing in Josephus' work and the jewish mishna (where he is mentioned as "jesus the son of Pantara"

Celsus also mentions him in what is attributed to him via Origin;s discourse with - and also claims he is the son of Pantara.

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Necromancer » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:07 pm

Necromancer wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:11 pm
philosopher wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:55 pm
Stalin too was very popular like Putin.
I'd like to point out important differences between Stalin era and Putin era Russia:

* 1994 - Member of "Partnership for Peace" that has a strong affiliation to NATO
* 1996 - Russia became the 39th member state of the Council of Europe
* 1998 - Russia ratified the European Convention on Human Rights
* 2012 - Member of WTO (World Trade Organization)

"After the dissolution of the Soviet Union the affiliation to the Eastern Orthodox church have risen substantially and in 2015 about 71% of the population of Russia declared itself to be Eastern Orthodox, and the share of who identitied as religiously unaffiliated declined from a 61% in 1991 to 18% in 2008."
- "suggesting" a deep improvement of respect for Christian/Kantian Ethics and for Human Rights (ECHR/UDHR).
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia

Joseph Stalin has been a virtual dictator of "no-rules and no-human-rights" Soviet Union, both Communist and Atheist. Stalin is known for the genocides under his rule. Also for being a brutal idiot.

Even though Putin and Medvedev have been leading, interchangeably, by the prime minister and the president positions, I think it's not credible that there is a possibility for Russia to do very stupid things again, despite Ukraine and Georgia. The World is just too connected and the mess a military assault against a nation would make, would just be very damaging in terms of international reactions, I find.
One should also remember that Russia isn't that old in time from its Soviet Union past.
1988 - 1991: Mikhail Gorbachev
1991 - 1999: Boris Yeltsin
"On December 31, 1999, President Yeltsin unexpectedly resigned, handing the post to the recently appointed Prime Minister, Vladimir Putin, who then won the 2000 presidential election."

So, it's a young democracy that must be admitted some time to get it right! (The 4 Factors by revolvers/pistols, pepper spray (to all 16 yos and up), lie detection array (5 methods +) for improved combatting of corruption and other crimes and radio-based scanner portals ("against 500 ills in human beings") so to advance GREATLY!)

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Greatest I am » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:05 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:39 pm
thanks or reply - have to get beer and cigarettes first though before i reply (I dissagree with the guy in your link - i watched it - agree with too/but mostly dissagree).

I will reply in full why when i get back.

thanks for replying to me - love disscussing religion though an atheist.
If that is the case, you will have to seek one elsewhere as that is not what I am. I like to think I am a cut above.
Apotheosis does that but not in a bragging way. It just shows we all have learning curves and all have more learning to do.

The main reason I say that of atheists is that even though we think closely, they do not yet recognize the value in local churches. Mind you, they are beginning to do so as they are creating some atheist churches the way their more intellectual atheists have been preaching for forever.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is hate good? Should we allow the censorship of hate speech?

Post by Greatest I am » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:10 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:01 am
the vid you provided is the classical "mythic view" aka Richard Carrier and the other guy Ehrman debated - i.e. whether Jesus existed (jesus the man).

the guy in your vid does not think so.

i do, and that the man became more than a man from

1st. being made Son of God at his death

then a few years later

2nd being made Son of God at age 30 via his baptism by john (gosp of Mark is my fav - Jesus is the most human in this work - and why i like it).

then a few years later

3rd Jesus was born God's son (Matt/luke)

then a few years later

4th Jesus was God's son (John also claims he is God himself!) from the beginning of time.

I liked these vids (check out all the numbers from 1-10 or so - they are great and in detail about many particular books of the bible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUfAvjNydw8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdiJ793twJA

if you deny YHWH - and deny that there was a man that lived called Jesus (son of Pantera - interesting disscussion about this on one of the 10 or so vids (not in the 2 gave above - but in a couple of others by the guy speaker - another part i think in otherwords), but value the myths of jesus and the gnostiv views of some works about him, then you to me seem to be a Agnostic/Atheist that values the gnostic myths concerning jesus.

BTW Jesus is mentioned as existing in Josephus' work and the jewish mishna (where he is mentioned as "jesus the son of Pantara"

Celsus also mentions him in what is attributed to him via Origin;s discourse with - and also claims he is the son of Pantara.
There were people who were named Jesus back then but to say that the miracle working Jesus was real means believing in the supernatural and that is too foolish for me to do.

If a miracle working Jesus can exist, then so can all the miracle workers including Lepricons.

No thanks.

If you believe in evolution, then to think a human God would be anything more than a human is counter intuitive.

Do you think man can break natural law?

Regards
DL

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