There Was/Is No Sacrifice

[Dontaskme]

If you exist in physical form always what is it that dies while still existing in physical form that you are no longer conscious of then
The brain which regulates consciousness so when it dies then consciousness goes too
So I can only exist as matter which cannot experience consciousness without a brain

Thanks for the reply.

You say ..Existence cannot be non existence so it always has to exist by definition.

I ask, if existence cannot be non-existence...how can it be said that the brain and it's capacity to regulate consciousness stops working aka dies.

I just don't get what dies .. if existence like you say cannot be non-existence.

Wouldn't death be known as non-existence? ...sorry for the confusion on my part, but would really like to know how you are seeing this..it's not that you are wrong and I am right about this, I just think it's a good idea that we all come to understand exactly what it is we are talking about, rather than just saying stuff.

I happen to think it's important we all understand each other, without getting into an argument, since we're all seeing reality in our own unique ways. And each of us is going to express our vision differently and that difference does not mean it's wrong.

Thanks for rekindling the share desire to talk about this subject with me.

Go ahead, and tell me what dies, and what does death mean to you?

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[surreptitious57]

Death is non consciousness rather than non existence. A body still physically exists even if it is brain dead. So non consciousness and non existence cannot be the same. There was a point in the past and there will be a point in the future when there is no consciousness but the Universe will still exist. Indeed no consciousness is known to exist any where beyond here and so death is the norm in the overwhelmingly majority of the Universe

I tend to look at this from as wide a scope as possible and not the limited one of human ego. The fundamental truth for me is that something has to always exist because nothing by definition cannot exist absolutely and infinitely. I am not really concerned about me existing or consciousness existing as it is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Everything is of course but some things are more insignificant than others and for me
the greatest truth is two fold : existence is spatially or temporally absolute [ maybe both ] and also is in a constant state of transition or motion

My body is a simple example of transition within the greater transition of existence because when it ceases to function it will die. Though death
is really transition rather than actual death in precisely the same way that conception is really transition rather than creation. As human beings we compartmentalise for the sake of simplification. However existence itself cannot be compartmentalised simply because it is a singular state
Now the sheer scale can be too much for a human brain to truly comprehend. However that does not mean it is not real because it obviously is

[surreptitious57]

As human beings we tend to look out from our own perspective which is understandable but I think rather flawed. So instead I look at it from the perspective of the totality of existence we call Universe. Now it does not actually matter that I exist within the Universe it only matters that the Universe exists. So I can remove myself from it if I so wish philosophically speaking. And as my death is inevitable it means I can accept it and so not be afraid of it. I did this last year and as a consequence now have no fear of death at all

[-1-]

And as my death is inevitable it means I can accept it and so not be afraid of it. I did this last year and as a consequence now have no fear of death at all

I would not be afraid of death, either, if I were already dead.

Or maybe I would.

[surreptitious57]

No one who is dead can be afraid of anything including death itself. Death is also the cessation of all suffering. And so for those two reasons
it should be welcome from a philosophical perspective. One can still have a full life but its only going to be temporary. Death has had a bad
rep for a very long time but no one who is actually dead has ever complained about it and as such it cannot be as bad as its made out to be

[surreptitious57]

THIS IS MY PHILOSOPHY IN SIMPLIFIED FORM


ETERNAL EXISTENCE BEFORE BIRTH

BIRTH

LIFE

DEATH

ETERNAL EXISTENCE AFTER DEATH


LIFE AND DEATH ARE SIMPLY DIFFERENT PHASES OF EXISTENCE

NEITHER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE OTHER

EXISTENCE DOES NOT RATE THINGS IN ORDER OF IMPORTANCE

AS THAT IS SOMETHING ONLY HUMAN BEINGS DO

BECAUSE EXISTENCE IS JUST TRANSITION NO MORE OR NO LESS

[Dontaskme]

Death is non consciousness rather than non existence. A body still physically exists even if it is brain dead. So non consciousness and non existence cannot be the same. There was a point in the past and there will be a point in the future when there is no consciousness but the Universe will still exist. Indeed no consciousness is known to exist any where beyond here and so death is the norm in the overwhelmingly majority of the Universe

I tend to look at this from as wide a scope as possible and not the limited one of human ego. The fundamental truth for me is that something has to always exist because nothing by definition cannot exist absolutely and infinitely. I am not really concerned about me existing or consciousness existing as it is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Everything is of course but some things are more insignificant than others and for me
the greatest truth is two fold : existence is spatially or temporally absolute [ maybe both ] and also is in a constant state of transition or motion

My body is a simple example of transition within the greater transition of existence because when it ceases to function it will die. Though death
is really transition rather than actual death in precisely the same way that conception is really transition rather than creation. As human beings we compartmentalise for the sake of simplification. However existence itself cannot be compartmentalised simply because it is a singular state
Now the sheer scale can be too much for a human brain to truly comprehend. However that does not mean it is not real because it obviously is

Okay thanks for your explanation..and I totally get what you are talking about, I really liked how you've managed to put this into words in a way it resonates with my own ideas, it is not easy to explain this, but I get where you are coming from, so thanks again, it seems we are on the same page.

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[Dontaskme]

THIS IS MY PHILOSOPHY IN SIMPLIFIED FORM
ETERNAL EXISTENCE BEFORE BIRTH
BIRTH LIFE DEATH ETERNAL EXISTENCE AFTER DEATH
LIFE AND DEATH ARE SIMPLY DIFFERENT PHASES OF EXISTENCE
NEITHER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE OTHER
EXISTENCE DOES NOT RATE THINGS IN ORDER OF IMPORTANCE
AS THAT IS SOMETHING ONLY HUMAN BEINGS DO
BECAUSE EXISTENCE IS JUST TRANSITION NO MORE OR NO LESS

I really liked this. It rings true for me. So thanks for sharing your ideas.

We think similar ideas ...my way of talking about the whole would be to say death and life are the same thing..they just differ in appearance that's all. And that is synonymous to what you have said here..LIFE AND DEATH ARE SIMPLY DIFFERENT PHASES OF EXISTENCE.



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We should embrace death, not fear it, for without it, life would be impossible.

It's funny how we go crazy with joy and excitement at the birth of a new life, and yet when some thing dies, it's usually the opposite feeling.

These opposites just have to exist, there is no avoiding them ever. Can't have one without the other, they are complimentary one and the same dynamic within existence.

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[Dontaskme]

The mind is a transcendental tool that can be aware of it's whole and individual self. Self being another word for presence.

There is a presence which emerges as we maintain this meditation, the awareness of our whole Self. This awareness creates a sense of peace with all that happens, allowing all the vibrancy of life and all the coldness of death to be accepted. It is our essential, eternal nature, beautiful and blissful which transcends the polarity of life and death.

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[Beauty]

Looking at "save our souls," you might not have a point, and I feel that people do need to be saved or like helped or rescued, don't we all need help at times, and are we not grateful for that help? But yes I agree with you that we live in the Hell or Heaven of our own making. And that we can majorly only help ourselves because we make our life good or bad not others because consequences in our life come according to our actions and that becomes our destiny or say fate. Now, there is something like, "one thing leads to another," "every little bit matters," "a little goes a long way," and so that is why we can be in a mess and it won't be of entirely our own making, and in the same way can be the good life. Also, the fabric of society can be good or bad affecting our actions, so others do have an involvement even if indirectly in our demise or construction. So I don't know what to say really except that we also contribute towards the fabric of society being good or bad, and so then in the big picture we make our own Hell or Heaven. But I will not forget the in between and the indirect way others affect our life and so on.

[Eodnhoj7]

Absolute nihilism is an absolute impossibility.

That would be like calling space space-less.

You have never existed because you have always existed.

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Nihilism is continual seperation with any absence, through a 0d point, being conducive to an inherent multiplicity. Nihilism is continual deduction.

On a seperate note, space is not necessarilly nothingness as "empty" space is an observation of relation not that space = empty. Space, as the foundation for all boundaries in itself is a foundation of being as being.

[surreptitious57]

The mind is a transcendental tool that can be aware of its whole and individual self. Self being another word for presence

There is a presence which emerges as we maintain this meditation the awareness of our whole Self. This awareness creates a sense of peace
with all that happens allowing all the vibrancy of life and all the coldness of death to be accepted. It is our essential eternal nature beautiful
and blissful which transcends the polarity of life and death

We are human so are prone to seeing reality or existence as we want to rather than how it really is
But there is in principle nothing wrong with that as long as it is good that we want rather than bad

I am quite detached and philosophical about both existence in general and my own in particular
But I do not want or expect others to think or feel exactly as I do for it is not my place to do so

I only have control over how I think or feel and so that is all I focus on
For how other minds think or feel is a matter for them and only them