Virgin Birth Myths

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Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:26 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Well lets hear it for the flowers.

So that we can all agree and bloom in marvel at it all.

Time to smell the roses and get back to the garden.
It's typical of you to mention a well tended garden instead of a mass of briars . If only your language was as well -tended as that of acknowledged poets. There is no short cut to a well- tended garden whether you speak poetry or prose, art or science .

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:19 pm

Greta wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:16 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:28 am
Greta
What are you talking about? You claimed that the virgin birth of Jesus was true and I disagreed, stating the obvious that it's just superstition.

Whatever a virgin birth may or may not mean figuratively is another matter.

First you need to admit without prevarication that the myth is purely metaphorical and not a historical event. Once we have clarified your ostensibly literalist commentary earlier in the thread then we can reasonably consider the metaphorical import of these myths, without the muddying effect of literalist supernatural beliefs.
A lot of the myths contained in the Old Testament have one purpose. The virgin birth in the New Testament begins The Christ’s life cycle on earth leading to the resurrection opens the path from mechanical evolution into conscious evolution. It is not a myth. Without the virgin birth there is no resurrection and no Christianity.
:lol: :lol: This is your "reasoning" for believing that Mary really did give birth to Jesus after being rogered by God in the night?? Really?????? Any thoughts on the physiological loose ends? You are simply superstitious. It is that simple.

I could just as easily claim that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is real too because it signifies the change from the simple cuisine of theists to the complexities of the modern world, represented by the noodly tangles, while the great institutions are represented by the meatballs. The sauce signifies the blood of the people who lost their lives to unhinged superstitions.

Without the FSM there is no pasta and thus no meal. My logic, like yours, is airtight and undeniable :roll:
Obviously you are unaware of the laws of involution and how the ONE involutes into diversity along the line of being within NOW. So there is no way you can conceptualize the virgin birth. You prefer to fight with Trump. That is your way but it doesn't mean others must remain so restricted.

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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:31 am

Nick_A wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:19 pm
Greta wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:16 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:28 am
Greta



A lot of the myths contained in the Old Testament have one purpose. The virgin birth in the New Testament begins The Christ’s life cycle on earth leading to the resurrection opens the path from mechanical evolution into conscious evolution. It is not a myth. Without the virgin birth there is no resurrection and no Christianity.
:lol: :lol: This is your "reasoning" for believing that Mary really did give birth to Jesus after being rogered by God in the night?? Really?????? Any thoughts on the physiological loose ends? You are simply superstitious. It is that simple.

I could just as easily claim that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is real too because it signifies the change from the simple cuisine of theists to the complexities of the modern world, represented by the noodly tangles, while the great institutions are represented by the meatballs. The sauce signifies the blood of the people who lost their lives to unhinged superstitions.

Without the FSM there is no pasta and thus no meal. My logic, like yours, is airtight and undeniable :roll:
Obviously you are unaware of the laws of involution and how the ONE involutes into diversity along the line of being within NOW. So there is no way you can conceptualize the virgin birth. You prefer to fight with Trump. That is your way but it doesn't mean others must remain so restricted.
Nick, I just Gooled for laws involution and it seems to be some complex math of which, yes, I have been blissfully unaware. It says that it is "a function ƒ that is its own inverse".

Can you explain how such laws apply in an actual human virgin birth?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:27 am

Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:26 pm
If only your language was as well -tended as that of acknowledged poets.
I don't live to be acknowledged.

I live to be free of me.

Nick_A
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:47 pm

Greta
Nick, I just Gooled for laws involution and it seems to be some complex math of which, yes, I have been blissfully unaware. It says that it is "a function ƒ that is its own inverse".

Can you explain how such laws apply in an actual human virgin birth?
I understand the concept of involution in the context of universal creation. I don't knot the math being reerred to,

But anyhow, imagine the universe as a giant octave made up of six dimensions. The seventh dimension is the ONE within which the other six function. The descending flow of elemental forces within this vertical structure involute into diversity. Involution is the lawful process of unity into diversity. Evolution is the process of diversity of elemental forces evolving towards unity. The big bang creates our universe. The little bang creates a baby. it is really the same since Man is a mini universe.

The intervals between the notes on the octave or levels of reality are also octaves.

The living part of the sperm or the Spirit descended consciously through the laws of involution creating the virgin birth without the need of the mechanical process creating animal life

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:54 pm

DaM
I don't live to be acknowledged.

I live to be free of me.
"To be or not to be" That really is the question. Some with esoteric interests are like you wanting to escape into nothingness. Others seek to be "free of me" in order to be: to become oneself - "I"

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:40 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:54 pm
DaM
I don't live to be acknowledged.

I live to be free of me.
"To be or not to be" That really is the question. Some with esoteric interests are like you wanting to escape into nothingness. Others seek to be "free of me" in order to be: to become oneself - "I"
That’s not how this one here sees it at all.

I’m not your projection...you read my words and make your own interpretation of them..

Without ever really knowing my experience...speculation is not real.



No one becomes....I

I is always...me is just a variable of I

.

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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:45 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:47 pm
Greta
Nick, I just Gooled for laws involution and it seems to be some complex math of which, yes, I have been blissfully unaware. It says that it is "a function ƒ that is its own inverse".

Can you explain how such laws apply in an actual human virgin birth?
I understand the concept of involution in the context of universal creation. I don't knot the math being reerred to,

But anyhow, imagine the universe as a giant octave made up of six dimensions. The seventh dimension is the ONE within which the other six function. The descending flow of elemental forces within this vertical structure involute into diversity. Involution is the lawful process of unity into diversity. Evolution is the process of diversity of elemental forces evolving towards unity. The big bang creates our universe. The little bang creates a baby. it is really the same since Man is a mini universe.

The intervals between the notes on the octave or levels of reality are also octaves.

The living part of the sperm or the Spirit descended consciously through the laws of involution creating the virgin birth without the need of the mechanical process creating animal life
Nice try, no cigar. Evolution is just what growth and development of a larger entity looks like from the inside. I was finding much of your ideas feasible, if wildly speculative, until you posited the involution of a sperm into Mary. That's piling up the speculations one too many for me.

I have also thought about the big bang / little bang analogy. It also applies to the birth of stars and to abiogenesis. Now these "little explosions of life" into reality are very common on Earth, involving all breeding animals. History has made clear that life is expendable, and younger life forms are the most expendable of all; it's not uncommon for just one animal to grow to adulthood from 10,000 hatchlings. For the most part, eggs and the young are considered prime food form for many species. Nasty but true.

Humans, of course, being more aware of time, are more careful than other species with that which has potential. No doubt if we lived in a small community surrounded by more populous enemies, the loss of every new life would indeed be problematic. However, we have 7.5 billion people and we can't even provide for them, let alone caring for more unwanted people.

Just as I would prioritise existing citizens over migrants applying for citizenship, I'd prioritise birthed life over potentially birthed, with a caveat. My prioritisations don't apply if the parents have an opinion. In the first instance of pregnancy what happens is entirely their business. As the foetus grows, the state increasingly becomes involved until we are born and at that point, of course, the state entirely has us by the proverbials :)

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:34 am

Greta wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:45 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:47 pm
Greta
Nick, I just Gooled for laws involution and it seems to be some complex math of which, yes, I have been blissfully unaware. It says that it is "a function ƒ that is its own inverse".

Can you explain how such laws apply in an actual human virgin birth?
I understand the concept of involution in the context of universal creation. I don't knot the math being reerred to,

But anyhow, imagine the universe as a giant octave made up of six dimensions. The seventh dimension is the ONE within which the other six function. The descending flow of elemental forces within this vertical structure involute into diversity. Involution is the lawful process of unity into diversity. Evolution is the process of diversity of elemental forces evolving towards unity. The big bang creates our universe. The little bang creates a baby. it is really the same since Man is a mini universe.

The intervals between the notes on the octave or levels of reality are also octaves.

The living part of the sperm or the Spirit descended consciously through the laws of involution creating the virgin birth without the need of the mechanical process creating animal life
Nice try, no cigar. Evolution is just what growth and development of a larger entity looks like from the inside. I was finding much of your ideas feasible, if wildly speculative, until you posited the involution of a sperm into Mary. That's piling up the speculations one too many for me.

I have also thought about the big bang / little bang analogy. It also applies to the birth of stars and to abiogenesis. Now these "little explosions of life" into reality are very common on Earth, involving all breeding animals. History has made clear that life is expendable, and younger life forms are the most expendable of all; it's not uncommon for just one animal to grow to adulthood from 10,000 hatchlings. For the most part, eggs and the young are considered prime food form for many species. Nasty but true.

Humans, of course, being more aware of time, are more careful than other species with that which has potential. No doubt if we lived in a small community surrounded by more populous enemies, the loss of every new life would indeed be problematic. However, we have 7.5 billion people and we can't even provide for them, let alone caring for more unwanted people.

Just as I would prioritise existing citizens over migrants applying for citizenship, I'd prioritise birthed life over potentially birthed, with a caveat. My prioritisations don't apply if the parents have an opinion. In the first instance of pregnancy what happens is entirely their business. As the foetus grows, the state increasingly becomes involved until we are born and at that point, of course, the state entirely has us by the proverbials :)
When I first saw the Star Trek episode called the Child, I thought there would be more comparisons to the immaculate conception. Of course there are differences but the idea that Troi could be impregnated by light was a question worth considering. However I never read it discussed. I never read that it isn't sperm that creates the little bang but actually it is the life force within it. The being which impregnated Troi was a high form of conscious life

http://thescifichristian.com/2012/10/th ... the-child/

I know the idea insults you but really there is much more to how and why life occurs than what is superficially considered

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:58 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:40 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:54 pm
DaM
I don't live to be acknowledged.

I live to be free of me.
"To be or not to be" That really is the question. Some with esoteric interests are like you wanting to escape into nothingness. Others seek to be "free of me" in order to be: to become oneself - "I"
That’s not how this one here sees it at all.

I’m not your projection...you read my words and make your own interpretation of them..

Without ever really knowing my experience...speculation is not real.



No one becomes....I

I is always...me is just a variable of I

.
I'm not being critical of or minimizing your experience. Consider it in the context of Plato's chariot. The white horse has experiences we could call I. But that doesn't make the problems of the black horse unreal. The driver must deal with both horses and not deny the dark horse. It a part of the chariot or the whole organism.

I may be wrong but I read you stressing that the black horse is unreal and only the experiences of the white horse are real. Christianity stresses that we must carry our own cross. We have to heal the dark horse or our lower parts by consciously witnessing its affliction for what it is. Very difficult.

"As above, so below." There is a relationship between our higher and lower parts that should be reconciled by a middle or our emotions. Our emotions have become corupted so we live in imagination. The unity of the higher and lower reconciled by this middle is I: inner unity. The human condition has made it so that we lack inner unity. We live as parts often in opposition with each other. Man's name is legion. I AM is the ultimate expression of ONE. It doesn't exist for us. We are many. For us I am needs a something. I am a this or that but we are not I am. I Am is a conscious human potential or the soul of Man.

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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:39 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:34 am
Greta wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:45 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:47 pm
Greta
I understand the concept of involution in the context of universal creation. I don't knot the math being reerred to,

But anyhow, imagine the universe as a giant octave made up of six dimensions. The seventh dimension is the ONE within which the other six function. The descending flow of elemental forces within this vertical structure involute into diversity. Involution is the lawful process of unity into diversity. Evolution is the process of diversity of elemental forces evolving towards unity. The big bang creates our universe. The little bang creates a baby. it is really the same since Man is a mini universe.

The intervals between the notes on the octave or levels of reality are also octaves.

The living part of the sperm or the Spirit descended consciously through the laws of involution creating the virgin birth without the need of the mechanical process creating animal life
Nice try, no cigar. Evolution is just what growth and development of a larger entity looks like from the inside. I was finding much of your ideas feasible, if wildly speculative, until you posited the involution of a sperm into Mary. That's piling up the speculations one too many for me.

I have also thought about the big bang / little bang analogy. It also applies to the birth of stars and to abiogenesis. Now these "little explosions of life" into reality are very common on Earth, involving all breeding animals. History has made clear that life is expendable, and younger life forms are the most expendable of all; it's not uncommon for just one animal to grow to adulthood from 10,000 hatchlings. For the most part, eggs and the young are considered prime food form for many species. Nasty but true.

Humans, of course, being more aware of time, are more careful than other species with that which has potential. No doubt if we lived in a small community surrounded by more populous enemies, the loss of every new life would indeed be problematic. However, we have 7.5 billion people and we can't even provide for them, let alone caring for more unwanted people.

Just as I would prioritise existing citizens over migrants applying for citizenship, I'd prioritise birthed life over potentially birthed, with a caveat. My prioritisations don't apply if the parents have an opinion. In the first instance of pregnancy what happens is entirely their business. As the foetus grows, the state increasingly becomes involved until we are born and at that point, of course, the state entirely has us by the proverbials :)
When I first saw the Star Trek episode called the Child, I thought there would be more comparisons to the immaculate conception. Of course there are differences but the idea that Troi could be impregnated by light was a question worth considering. However I never read it discussed. I never read that it isn't sperm that creates the little bang but actually it is the life force within it. The being which impregnated Troi was a high form of conscious life

http://thescifichristian.com/2012/10/th ... the-child/

I know the idea insults you but really there is much more to how and why life occurs than what is superficially considered
Sure, never say never, Nick, but you are piling speculations upon speculations.

Not sure why I'd be offended by life force being injected directly into someone in lieu of a physical carrier. It's not a very grounded idea but nothing to be offended about unless one is a union representative for spermatozoa with a demarcation complaint.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:16 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:58 am

I'm not being critical of or minimizing your experience. Consider it in the context of Plato's chariot. The white horse has experiences we could call I. But that doesn't make the problems of the black horse unreal. The driver must deal with both horses and not deny the dark horse. It a part of the chariot or the whole organism.

I may be wrong but I read you stressing that the black horse is unreal and only the experiences of the white horse are real. Christianity stresses that we must carry our own cross. We have to heal the dark horse or our lower parts by consciously witnessing its affliction for what it is. Very difficult.

"As above, so below." There is a relationship between our higher and lower parts that should be reconciled by a middle or our emotions. Our emotions have become corupted so we live in imagination. The unity of the higher and lower reconciled by this middle is I: inner unity. The human condition has made it so that we lack inner unity. We live as parts often in opposition with each other. Man's name is legion. I AM is the ultimate expression of ONE. It doesn't exist for us. We are many. For us I am needs a something. I am a this or that but we are not I am. I Am is a conscious human potential or the soul of Man.
I understand what you are saying perfectly Nick. You go on to mention ''....I AM is the ultimate expression of ONE..'' not existing for us....but it can Nick, it exists for me, I know this Nick, I see this ONE.. I have done all my life...since I first became aware of myself as a separate entity....But I knew the separate identity was unnatural, and that it was just a means to live sanely in the world.

A world of ''beings'' being conscious of themselves, creating the effect of duality through language and communication. Knowledge separated what is ONE...into what is many.


I've transcended the separate self. This doesn't mean I've become a narcissistic nihilist. But I'm often perceived as one, simply because it is rare for a human to touch this boundless space of pure love..aka God. A human cannot be a narcissistic nihilist anyway, . it's just a silly label, we know how the mind loves it's labels. Labels have never stuck with me, I know God by direct experience. So, I'm certainly not going to be swayed or convinced by any alternative idea other than my own experiential inner intuitive knowing. People may want to crush this from me, but I don't care, I'm home with the beloved and nothing outside of home can ever touch this home.

I'm certainly not perfect at putting this into words, it's difficult to point to the ineffable one using concepts because language is dual by nature, it invites contradiction where there is no contradiction....but the perceiver is never perceived as contradiction...this is clear....so it can be very confusing when that which is perceived is perceived to be the actual perceiver....this is what causes confusion for the mind.

Anyhow..

I thought you meant that I was escaping into nothingness..when the complete opposite is true for me. What's happened to me is that my separate identity has dissolved away completely, this awakening has made me feel more alive and free than I've ever felt before. I've seen God...and only God can see God...do you agree with that premise...that only God can see God?

Nothingness is not what people believe it to be...for me, the idea of nothingness doesn't exist, rather, it's absolutely brimming and teeming with pure potential waiting to manifest into actuality... it's unconditional love for itself...for there is no other than SELF here expressing itself in multiple ways...and none of this expression is personal, although there is nothing wrong with that feeling of personal, it's how the consciousness of that ''personal one'' experiences and grows into it's own evolution towards higher and higher levels of awareness.

.

Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:45 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:27 am
Belinda wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:26 pm
If only your language was as well -tended as that of acknowledged poets.
I don't live to be acknowledged.

I live to be free of me.
I thought that your presence here on this discussion meant that you also live to explain nonduality to others.

Dam wrote:
I know God by direct experience.
But what or who you call 'God' is not what others call 'God'. Your learning the name 'God' was not from direct experience but from the culture that made your ideas. You are hijacking the name from religions that do recognise duality. Nick's illustration is nice of the chariot drawn by a black horse and a white horse.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:10 am

Belinda wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:45 am

I thought that your presence here on this discussion meant that you also live to explain nonduality to others.
Being free of ''me'' frees me up to explain oneness...but it seems that what ever I seem to say ,..you will always look for fault in it......it seems I confuse you...so be it, there is nothing I can do about that.


Belinda wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:45 am
But what or who you call 'God' is not what others call 'God'. Your learning the name 'God' was not from direct experience but from the culture that made your ideas. You are hijacking the name from religions that do recognise duality.
All learning aka teaching is second hand knowledge, it's not first hand witness account via personal experience.

So sorry to inform aka remind you Belinda, that my knowing God is from the only teacher there is and that is intuitive knowing that is already present inside me and is there is every other human being...it does not come from anyone else outside of you.

I know you don't like hearing that, but I will keep repeating it as long as you keep denying it.

.

God is just a label, a mental construct imposed upon the total mystery that is this immediate boundless aliveness presence that is without name or form, or knowledge of..it's more a feeling, a sense that I am intimately known, but it's not me that knows. It's the kind of knowing, that is not my knowing, it's a knowing that cannot be known, I am known.

.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:39 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:54 pm
DaM
I don't live to be acknowledged.

I live to be free of me.
"To be or not to be" That really is the question. Some with esoteric interests are like you wanting to escape into nothingness. Others seek to be "free of me" in order to be: to become oneself - "I"
I found this in my Nondual notes ...I thought might interest you...please feel free to comment.

Logically, something can't both "be" and "not be" at the same time.
One can't create oneself - that would require you to "be" in order to perform the action, at the same time you can't "not be" since you haven't yet begun to exist.

.

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