Virgin Birth Myths

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme »

Atla wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:38 pm Blissful child abuse, contempt for life, fear of death, depersonalization disorder, narcissism.. your Neo-Advaitan perversion of nondualism is a disgrace
And for your information dick brain...children are more intelligent and open about truth and honesty than you think they are...they want honesty and innocence, they do not want to be fed a pack of lies about father fucking christmas coming down the chimney to give them presents for being good..what about that then...do you celebrate christmas?


Children are more intelligent than you think they are, no one gives a fuck about kids..look at how they treat old people...do you think kids just suddenly stop being a kid just because they're skin is starting to look a bit wrinkled...

...They are incredible intelligent creative honest and loving beings...it's just they have not had much life experience yet....you know, that shit that happens to them when they are repeatedly lied to on a daily basis....only to then become aware of those lies for real through experience....also, they can read about the truth of their real selves on the internet on their little ipads that mummy bought them for christmas for being a good little child...the ipads that they sneak under their bed covers each night to find out the truth for themselves...parental control permitting...but then some parents don't give a fuck what their children are reading or looking at on the internet as long as they are out of their face and out of their filthy little minds...

So why not get off your big fat soap box yourself and do us all a favour, break your big fat no good for nothing brain while descending from your pulpit.

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Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote:
But there is another type of ego, the one I am talking about in the last post is the one that actually believes it dies...so it plays this constant game of being in competition with itself in order to succeed in life and be something it's not, ...of course it can choose to do that if it so desires, but it doesn't have to go to the extremes of always trying to prove itself to others in order to be accepted....it can relax, and enjoy the free ride that is life knowing itself...it's got the rest of eternity to experience every possible experience that possibly exists in it's infinite state of potentiality experiencing itself as this ever giving unconditional love expressing to it's offspring, like a mothers milk naturally and spontaneously flowing to feed it's infants hunger and zest for life. The possibilities are endless, watch this space...you are it.
This other kind of ego is a disembodied ego then. You must surely see that this is Cartesian dualism.

You write "---it can relax, and enjoy the free ride -----". How can it be an it and moreover an it that can enjoy in a state of undifferentiation? How can the it which isn't a differentiated it experience anything as an it?
Do you mean that the joy transcends differentiated egos ? Experience transcends differentiated experiencers.

Okay. But what people fear about being dead (those who do fear being dead!)is precisely this losing of the separate self. It is very difficult to imagine enjoying or experiencing without the beloved sentient ego to enjoy or experience with.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Belinda wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:08 pm This other kind of ego is a disembodied ego then. You must surely see that this is Cartesian dualism.
Yes, it's classic cartesian dualism ..except he was writing about the thinker...there is no thinker, only thoughts about a thinker.

But yeah, there is only the dream..duality...I mean how can duality not be duality?
Belinda wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:08 pmYou write "---it can relax, and enjoy the free ride -----". How can it be an it and moreover an it that can enjoy in a state of undifferentiation? How can the it which isn't a differentiated it experience anything as an it?
Do you mean that the joy transcends differentiated egos ? Experience transcends differentiated experiencers.
Yes, consciousness expressed in human form is transcendent...but even this is an illusion, it's the play of opposites at play, it's one playing the many.
The opposites have to exist in the same moment, else nothing would make sense, we wouldn't know up with out down etc etc etc...As above so below..to coin a phrase.

Belinda wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:08 pmOkay. But what people fear about being dead (those who do fear being dead!)is precisely this losing of the separate self. It is very difficult to imagine enjoying or experiencing without the beloved sentient ego to enjoy or experience with.
Yes, of course, you are quite right and that's why it's here apparently...what would we look like without looking at our face in the mirror..who would we be and so on...The I am is both the reflector and reflected, yet neither since all is just pure white invisible light / energy at play in the land of shadows.

It's all very beautiful really. Well I think so anyway...what do you think? ..do you think it's all beauty full?

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Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote:
The opposites have to exist in the same moment, else nothing would make sense, we wouldn't know up with out down etc etc etc
I have thought this since reading Spinoza, and Lao Tzu.

As for beauty, I cannot understand beauty apart from sensory sensual beauty.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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All that death means Belinda is the losing of the separate self...this is knowledge of self to be one and the same no one.

No one has ever died, because no one has ever been born....this is amazing news, not to be feared, think of the freedom in that, the sense of other self is what makes the dream so real...it's a wonderful trick conjured up by nature herself.

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I love nonduality.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Belinda wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:27 pm
As for beauty, I cannot understand beauty apart from sensory sensual beauty.

Yes, that's how any concept is understood, by the sensual experience of it...the beloved is as intimate and as close to you as is the nose on your face...you are it...it's not something existing outside of you. You cannot approach it no more than you can approach yourself..you are yourself.

.

There are many facets of yourself the deeper you look into them...they go on infinitely...now and now and now always changing, always becoming better versions of itself ..yourself...add infinitum...

See here...

Image

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You are the eternal watcher of your finite temporal self experiencing itself infinitely...

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Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote:
There are many facets of yourself the deeper you look into them...they go on infinitely...now and now and now always changing, always becoming better versions of itself ..yourself...add infinitum...

See here...
Very nice if true. But how do you know I am not a psychopath with ugly versions ad infinitum of ugly self?
Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A »

Lacewing
Yes... as you can (hopefully?) see by my responses. Do my responses make sense to you, even though they don't use your language? Can you see/accept that conscious expansion (in any direction) is accessible to all, and does not require a specific path, and does not manifest with the same outer characteristics?
Your responses are sensible. I may disagree with certain of your ideas but they are still quite reasonable. For example I don’t believe the majority have any interest in conscious expansion so deny their own possibilities. But this raises the question of need. How many really need to experience the reality of the human condition when the pursut of pleasure is far more attractive? Jacob Needleman wrote In “Lost Christianity:”
Of course it had been stupid of me to express it in quite that way, but nevertheless the point was worth pondering: does there exist in man a natural attraction to truth and to the struggle for truth that is stronger than the natural attraction to pleasure? The history of religion in the west seems by and large to rest on the assumption that the answer is no. Therefore, externally induced emotions of egoistic fear (hellfire), anticipation of pleasure (heaven), vengeance, etc., have been marshaled to keep people in the faith.
How many Simone Weil’s come along in a generation who are willing to die rather than live without this truth? I’ve experienced that for most conscious expansion is defined by self justification. And yes, secularized religious expression often provides pleasure through self justification via condemnation as opposed to opening to the experience of the human condition as it manifests within us. Conscious expansion seems like a nice ideal but who really wants it?
I think it's worth acknowledging that there are many, many people who are evolving consciously without any form of religion. And there are many, many people who are connected to spirit (or whatever one calls it), without any form of religion.
I agree. Of course Simone Weil is a perfect example. She was not involved with any organized religion. But the essence of religion is is not a secularized religion. It is really an esoteric school with techniques that further awakening as opposed to indoctrination.

Take alcoholism for example. Some can beat the disease on their own yet most need AA or the group effort with help from above to get clean. But only some people can defeat their own personal demons so the rest remain alcoholics.
"Grace fills empty spaces, but it can only enter where there is a void to receive it We must continually suspend the work of the imagination in filling the void within ourselves."
What if Joseph and Mary were involved with an esoteric school? What if Mary practiced techniques to remain free from imagination and provided an inner space for the immaculate conception to take place. What was possible for Mary is impossible for an ordinary woman filled with the results of imagination. Can you see how easy it is to underestimate the reality of human being and what it is capable of? It isn't a matter of belief or denial butof opening to conscious contemplation.
Yes, I do. On this earth plane, I think humans get to act out in all kinds of ways. It's sort of like a drunken party. There are people who are smashing the place up. There are people over-indulging and passing out in the corner. There are people trying to be of help to others. And there are people standing on the lawn gazing up at the stars, and thinking big thoughts.
The Great Beast in action revealing the many sides of the collective human personality. We both do not accept a personal God so that's a start. :)
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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Belinda wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 pm Dontaskme wrote:
There are many facets of yourself the deeper you look into them...they go on infinitely...now and now and now always changing, always becoming better versions of itself ..yourself...add infinitum...

See here...
Very nice if true. But how do you know I am not a psychopath with ugly versions ad infinitum of ugly self?

All inclusive..free to be. All different masks worn by the faceless one.

It takes one to know one.

The unknown knower.

By their fruits...
Science Fan
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Science Fan »

It's amazing --- only on a philosophy site will people spend more time discussing virgins than porn stars.
Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A »

Lacewing
I use the word conscious to mean paying attention, and noticing, and being awake/aware without the obscuring that happens from ego and habit -- operating above/outside of that foggy state.
I agree. The one thing we can call our own is our capacity for attention. Simone Weil awakened Julia Haslett to this idea and she made her documentary on Simone as an effort to further appreciate the depth of the idea. The modern loss of attention span IMO is about the most damaging thing that can happen to our species.
But YOU do write it AT people, Nick. Instead of saying, "People do this, and people believe that...", you write it as "YOU do this, and YOU believe that..." -- which is a direct characterization of the person you are talking to, and these characterizations are WRONG. So what do you expect people to respond? If you're going to deny it, then you're not being honest.
This is what the academics do. They discuss what people do. They do not realize they are people but rather some superior species. Be honest with me now. If we are not part of the people doing this and that, how can we really know the dynamics of what people do? Without this experience, what good is philosophy?

I can say that hypocrisy is a primary attribute of the human condition. It is what people do. But if someone says you are a hypocrite it provokes anger. It is difficult to admit that we as individuals express what people do. It appears insulting. But if it is true, what is there to be insulted about? What good is philosophy if it doesn’t refer to us but only to what people do?
I don't think I've ever heard you admit to being a cave dweller yourself! Is this post really by Nick? Wonders never cease!
I actually have many times. Those who cannot admit it can never be considered Christian. “Hate the sin but love the sinner.” If we cannot distinguish between the two and the power of imagination which controls so much of our lives, we have yet to experience what we are to begin the struggle between our higher and lower natures. Yes I am a cave dweller.
Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A »

Science Fan wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:09 pm It's amazing --- only on a philosophy site will people spend more time discussing virgins than porn stars.
Yes it is a deviation from the norm:

"The orgasm has replaced the Cross as the focus of longing and the image of fulfillment." ― Malcolm Muggeridge
Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote:
The opposites have to exist in the same moment, else nothing would make sense, we wouldn't know up with out down etc etc etc
All masks worn by the faceless one
Yes, but neither of the opposites is the cause of the other.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Belinda wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:59 pm
Yes, but neither of the opposites is the cause of the other.
The seer being inseparable from the seen...what is seen creates the effect of a seer. There is no seer without the seen and vice versa, they are one in the same moment.

It's an alternating dualistic feedback loop upon itself.

A causeless causer... evident in the effects, appearances of no thing.

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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta »

DAM's egotistical attempts to portray herself as a "better person" than me do not merit a response.

Are we all, aside from Nick, agreed that the virgin birth of the Messiah was just a myth or are there more literalists in the room?
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