Virgin Birth Myths

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Lacewing » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:01 am
We can only resonate with what feels true for ourselves
Perhaps this is a limitation for you (which would explain a lot) -- but it is possible to understand and discuss things by seeing another's perspective.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:01 am
If your ever feeling suffocated by other peoples opinions, you've always got the option to flight, not fight, if something is not resonating with you, then just walk away, it's that simple, you have nothing to lose by walking away... it's almost like you feel insecure sometimes, you feel like someone else knows more than you, or something you don't,and you feel the constant need to defend yourself... it seems you have clearly stated this many times that you too know all this stuff, and I'm saying yes you do, we know that...and just so you know, you are just as conscious and enlightened as everyone else here, you don't need to keep proving that to yourself and others . we already know you are.
This sounds like you're giving yourself a pep talk. Good for you. Might be more valuable though if you learn to distinguish your own stuff instead of projecting it onto others.

Science Fan
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Science Fan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:53 pm

Dontask: So, if you are a kid in math class and when the teacher is explaining fractions, if it does not resonate with you, then you get up and walk away? Isn't it really the case that there is such a thing as objective reality and one should fight to make sure the truth is not dwindled down to mere opinions?

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6894
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:42 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:41 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:01 am
We can only resonate with what feels true for ourselves
Perhaps this is a limitation for you (which would explain a lot) -- but it is possible to understand and discuss things by seeing another's perspective.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:01 am
If your ever feeling suffocated by other peoples opinions, you've always got the option to flight, not fight, if something is not resonating with you, then just walk away, it's that simple, you have nothing to lose by walking away... it's almost like you feel insecure sometimes, you feel like someone else knows more than you, or something you don't,and you feel the constant need to defend yourself... it seems you have clearly stated this many times that you too know all this stuff, and I'm saying yes you do, we know that...and just so you know, you are just as conscious and enlightened as everyone else here, you don't need to keep proving that to yourself and others . we already know you are.
This sounds like you're giving yourself a pep talk. Good for you. Might be more valuable though if you learn to distinguish your own stuff instead of projecting it onto others.
By saying you feel suffocated by someones else's opinion is to make yourself look small, you make your self a victim, and when you make yourself a victim it's because you have not dealt with the sense of feeling small and limited, so you attract a perpetrator into your life, that's what you do when you feel someone is attacking you or knowing more than you. There is no perpetrator without a victim, stop playing the victim is all I'm saying.

But then you'll just reject that too because you'll play the victim again, you'll push the feelings down that your not good enough and then project them at others because it's not nice feeling the victim...the you is only formed when it is trying to avoid it's darkest feelings...deal with them yourself and see that they do not exist, don't project them onto others just because you can't deal with them...until you deal with them you will keep on attracting the perpetrator in your life, and that's how you see me and also Nick...as the bad guys...when we are not. We own our own dark side, we are not scared of the shadow self...that's why we seem so large to you..and is why you feel threatened, by constantly telling yourself that we are not the only enlightened beings...we have never said we are better and know more than you ever...this is all you're own feelings, you're own self feeling small, you put yourself in that position...no one else.

Stop avoiding your dark side and playing small....when you allow your feelings to be as they are, and stop running away from them... you are free, but you will not be free projecting those feeling onto others...that is still running away from them, embrace every side of yourself, stop running from yourself. You create your own monster, the shadow self...no one else does that for you...all you have to do is turn around and look at the shadow...it's all you, in your own mind....that's the freedom knowing it's all you...and not somebody else's fault.

No, we never see another's perspective, we only ever see our own appearing in another...there is a big difference in context here.

.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6894
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:46 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:53 pm
Dontask: So, if you are a kid in math class and when the teacher is explaining fractions, if it does not resonate with you, then you get up and walk away? Isn't it really the case that there is such a thing as objective reality and one should fight to make sure the truth is not dwindled down to mere opinions?
What the heck has this got anything to do with the virgin birth topic. I asked you to explain what it meant to you..so still waiting for your reply.

.

Forget about others kids and teachers...what does ''virgin birth'' mean to YOU?

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Lacewing » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:04 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:42 pm
By saying you feel suffocated by someones else's opinion...
I did not say that, and I do not feel suffocated. Do I LOOK like I feel suffocated? :lol: :lol:

I was pointing out that Nick's method of superimposing his model over everything else in a discussion is suffocating to everything else in the discussion -- as opposed to, say, listening and understanding other views, and finding the common points. It's no different than pointing out when someone's behavior is oppressive (as Nick does)... even though the one saying it does not feel oppressed. Surely you can see the distinction.

It appears that you become so spun up in your eagerness to find things to lecture me about, that you end up projecting and/or saying things that you wouldn't say with a clearer mind.
Last edited by Lacewing on Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nick_A
Posts: 4236
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm

Lacewing
Do you realize that I didn't say we were all the same? That's very different than sharing/experiencing/seeing a common essence, yes? I'm trying to ensure we don't confuse the meaning of this. Of course there must be respect for differences -- that is what I was asking of you in my previous post.

Some people (like me) actually see everything as connected. That's not about being PC. And it's not even outrageous, considering the natural web of life that we can see everywhere we look.
First things first. What is this common essence that you refer to? Since I believe we primarily live in imagination, what can we know of as a common essence? Common essence for me is the agreement that we live in imagination with the potential for living consciously which would reveal our common humanity. Are you open to the suggestion that we live in imagination as Plato described?
What is the essence of religion but spirit? What is everything in religion supposedly pointing to... rules or spirit?
The goal of the essence of religion as opposed to secularized religion is to serve the transition from mechanical evolution into conscious evolution. Rules refer to what prevents it. The Spirit allows us to awaken and freedom from the prison of imagination. Simone Weil describes it well
"Grace fills empty spaces, but it can only enter where there is a void to receive it We must continually suspend the work of the imagination in filling the void within ourselves."
"In no matter what circumstances, if the imagination is stopped from pouring itself out, we have a void (the poor in spirit). In no matter what circumstances... imagination can fill the void. This is why the average human beings can become prisoners, slaves, prostitutes, and pass thru no matter what suffering without being purified."
Okay. I don't know what you mean by "earth spirits" -- is that a designation you use to identify anything that isn't of the caliber of "the Spirit" you're talking about? How does the Spirit you're referring to differ from the spirit/essence I've described as flowing as ONE throughout ALL ("ALL" not being limited to earth)?
You must remember that my hypothesis or the foundation which structure my beliefs as to the purpose of our universe and man’s purpose within it which provides the experience of objective meaning begins with a conscious universe and its levels of reality maintained through the complimentary processes of involution and evolution.

The Holy Spirit is an expression of the “Source” or what Plotinus calls the ONE. Earth spirits originate with the earth at a much lower level of creation.

Levels of reality and the cosmoses they produce exist one within the other. Imagine a forest as a level of reality and call it a macrocosm. It has its own purpose and needs. Imagine a tree within it and call it a microcosm. It also has its purpose and its needs. The tree lives within the forest but also has its unique identity. Often they are opposed. For example sometimes the needs of the forest requires trees must die. Do you agree that even though trees exist as ONE from the perspective of the forest, they also have a unique identity?

This is the same idea as to the relationship between a human being and humanity. But if we are guided by imagination it can never be understood but only interpreted for pragmatic concerns into meaningless opinions. Has anything I’ve written so far make sense to you?

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Lacewing » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:30 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
...
I look forward to responding to your thoughtful post. I see a lot of agreement... and I find this fascinating. Gotta dash out the door just now though.

Belinda
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:36 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:16 pm
Belinda wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:30 am


My claim about virgin birth myth is that it is potentially more than magical miracle for making a deity seem more powerful. Virgin birth can be seen to be analogous to transformation of undifferentiated being into manifest forms and values.Virgin birth is thus about the passive feminine as baseline or ground of existence. The masculine principle is the active algorithm or deity which causes existence to happen.
The transformation of undifferentiated being into manifest forms and values is the dream of separation...the dream that I exist, the one you are clinging onto right now for dear life. The belief that you exist.

So are you agreeing here that your own existence is potentially more than magical miracle for making a deity seem more powerful? because it is you that is talking about this is it not..so where is this you coming from..and can that you be a myth according to your claim?

.
It's no dream but reason and imagination. I propose that 'masculine' manifestation(which is relative, temporal, differentiated ) is one aspect of reality. The 'feminine' undifferentiated is another aspect of reality.
Unless affected by a changed state of consciousness a self experiences only differentiated self .
Last edited by Belinda on Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Belinda
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:45 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:53 pm
Dontask: So, if you are a kid in math class and when the teacher is explaining fractions, if it does not resonate with you, then you get up and walk away? Isn't it really the case that there is such a thing as objective reality and one should fight to make sure the truth is not dwindled down to mere opinions?
There may be no objective reality. Mathematics are not objective reality .Mathematics are tautologous.

Some ideas are better than other ideas. There is no perfectly true idea. It's idolatrous to claim perfectly objective knowledge.
Philosophy of science reveals that there are quite nice criteria for differentiating between good and bad ideas.
Are virgin birth myths ,and other great myths, art forms?
Last edited by Belinda on Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 6894
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:47 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:04 pm

It appears that you become so spun up in your eagerness to find things to lecture me about, that you end up projecting and/or saying things that you wouldn't say with a clearer mind.
Here we go again, there you go...

You just had to put that last dig in didn't you..just to make yourself the bigger wiser person...you are so predictable, do you feel better now off loading that last bit on to me, to make me the small one in order to keep yourself the big one...because that's all you ever do, and you are so unaware of it.

Seriously, this is why I cannot talk to you, please stop replying to any of my posts in the future, and I'll do same, we have been through this silly charade before ...lets agree to part ways again then we'll both be happy...hopefully, then you can have your opinion and I can have mine.

.

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:02 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:30 am
Greta wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:00 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:24 pm
Greta, do you even know what the heck you are talking about?
Of course not, but I have much more of an idea than you do.
Dontaskme wrote:To imply that a birth is real - one must have first account witnessing that such an event took place, namely, their own birth.
Yes, I can see how a zygote, embryo or foetus might have a little difficulty with abstract concepts.
Dontaskme wrote:To imply that a death is real - one must have first account witnessing that such an event took place, namely, their own death.
This deserves a test.

I suggest that you go stand in the middle of a busy highway and test the concept of death. Since you've not experienced it, it might not happen.
Dontaskme wrote:Conclusion..birth and death are illusions.
You'd best let Nick know about this - I agree with you that virgin births are illusory.
Dontaskme wrote:No one, has ever been born or has ever died. There is only life living itself, all alone, all one without a second.
Sure. 13.8b years ago we were all some strange state of compressed plasma, probably a superfluid of sorts. Four billion years ago we were microbes. Now we are a range of critters, ranging from microbe to spacefaring hominid. Tomorrow we will probably be machines.

However, DAM, we will all snuff it and no perspective shifting will change that that as we gasp and choke on our last breath.
You really have no idea what I am talking about when I made this post have you?

You fail to see the empty principle in my post, your response is always of a conditioned reactive one ..one that has been handed down to you from those who came before you, and you have bought into that ideology hook line and sinker.

You never seem to want to look at the bigger picture do you.
Actually, I completely understand all that you say. However, I prefer not to validate your ungrounded ideas and won't play your game.

Anyone who tries to live their life according to what they believe is ACTUAL reality is in the process of self destruction. That is why our senses evolved that we absorb what we need to survive, not the actual physical reality before us.

Yes, it seems that life is just a dream at the subatomic scale of reality. However, those who choose to embrace this idea to your extent do so as a matter of avoidance masquerading as "wisdom". It's the same copout as those who escape a life of failure in the west to join ashrams.

Life is too hard, too scary, too difficult. So you have found a cop out to protect your ego. It's much easier to dismiss reality as a dream to avoid making an effort and admitting failures. In short, yours is a case of sour grapes; some who cannot emotionally cope with life will tend to find esoteric texts to help them justify or nullify their failures in their own eyes. This is what you appear to be doing, probably due to the usual reason - failed relationships or failed projects that one cannot bear to accept - to simply face your limitations honestly and squarely.

So, just because matter is made from atoms does not mean that it's wise to treat everything like a bunch of atoms rather than the composite entity they comprise. By the same token, just because matter appears to ultimately be informational and thus, not actually material as such, does not mean it can be treated sensibly as nothingness.

How do I know this? I tried doing the same as you thirty years ago, and I knew people in yoga a meditation classes playing the same game.

Plato's Rock
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:01 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Plato's Rock » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:13 am

On the topic of virgin birth myths...

my understanding is that it is often a woman giving birth to a mythical child for several reasons. 1) It sounds more "poetic"...a child-rearing mother, or a father that spat out some seed? 2) Genetic/Evolution wise incubation, and "mothering" (lacking terms) evolved first on this planet. Think of bacteria, they undergo binary fission which is essentially cloning..."mother and daughter cells" (non-gendered, just title). Now being that if one adheres to the evolutionary schema, a "female of a species" would likely be the first to "generate", and well a "male" would likely be a "predator" within the same species.

Consider how little energy/effort is needed for sperm spreading compared to rearing a child. Thus a "male" is likely a form of energy parasite (kinda sucks realizing that as a male, but eh...no choice there). Dawkins alludes to this, and covers some of this nicely in "Ancestor's Tale", and coupled with the "Red Queen" theory about sexualization... it gets interesting, but those two books are likely out of date by contemporary standards.

Essentially, think of an "reproductive arms race"...one who shares the seed with the "Other", and doesn't have to invest internal energy can "predate more"....And being that some of our physiology comes from reptiles (ie the reptilian brain) where some species can change genders/sex-organs....it may explain some of the modern day stuff. We're built off of "Legacy Engineering/Systems"....doesn't mean that they're the best form, or realization of what's possible.

Regarding the "Mythic Aspect", I'd much rather have a Divine "Mother" over a Divine "Father"....just considering the stereotypes applied to each gender.

Nick_A
Posts: 4236
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am

Lacewing
Also, do you seriously think that I and others here are not as conscious as you?
I don’t know what you mean by conscious. I have experienced that it is far easier for me to admit I’m not conscious. Accept for brief intervals during the day, I function on automatic pilot you could call by habitual reactions. So the bottom line is rather than believing myself to be more conscious than you, I’ve discovered through efforts at self knowledge to affirm that I lack conscious self awareness

I distinguish between self consciousness which is a reaction based on fear that compels a defensive mode, and consciousness of self which allows the workings of our mechanical reactive personality to be witnessed by the higher conscious parts of our collective being. It is the beginning of self knowledge.
And I have been saying that I have experienced broader states of awareness that are beyond earthly confines. You may use the word "conscious", while I use the word "awareness". You may think of the universe/god as "thinking and planning(?)", while I think of the universe as "being without human judgment, agenda, need... while still having awareness".
I don’t know what you mean by awareness? Are you referring to the awareness that you live within a quality of consciousness far superior to yours? How would you distinguish it from drug induced altered states of consciousness which produce imagination?

As I understand it, God IS so there is nothing to plan. Planning takes place within creation – within time and space. I like the way Simone Weil expresses this:
"It is only the impossible that is possible for God. He has given over the possible to the mechanics of matter and the autonomy of his creatures."
.
Typical profound poetic Simone. Creation is impossible for creatures within creation. We are limited to the possible determined by the limitations of universal laws within time and space. The possible takes place within the impossible. Can you imagine some kid saying that in school. They would be put on ritilin right away.:)
Isn't it interesting to note the intersections of our ideas... rather than you casting me into some weird cave with a beast? And isn't it understandable that when you continually accuse me of what I'm not, I'm going to tell you that you're being an idiot? I much prefer this kind of balanced and honest discussion/communication.
You are too defensive about this IMO. Plato didn’t write the cave allegory as an attack. It is meant to be pondered for the sake of opening the mind. We are invited through efforts to know thyself if we are ruled by attachments as described? Can we inwardly turn to experience what creates the shadows? This isn’t an attack. It is the same with the Great Beast analogy. It isn’t an insult or an attack. It really is just sociology. Since many lack consciousness and find it more attractive to be part of a group mind, society does become a Beast. It is incapable of conscious choice. Yet individuals within society can acquire a quality of consciousness which offers choice. But again, these ancient ideas aren’t attacks. They are the inspiration to question ourselves, what we are, and what we are objectively doing.

I have no reason to attack you. IMO we are all in the same position. We are all cave dwellers. I once read: “What good is one idiot calling another idiot, an idiot? This is it in a nutshell. We are wretched in the sense that we are in opposition to ourselves. There is nothing “bad” about this. It is the unfortunate human condition. So what good is name calling? Really, I have no interest in attacking you.

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Lacewing » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:25 am

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
First things first. What is this common essence that you refer to?
The wording is my attempt to point to that which everything is connected to AND possibly SHARES on levels/frequencies that we can see examples of (by looking at the inter-connectedness and patterns in all of nature) -- but which we may not be able to define in our typically limited terms. "Essence" is that which is not superficial. The nectar of us. :)
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
Since I believe we primarily live in imagination, what can we know of as a common essence?
Well, imagination probably colors EVERYTHING we experience and think in this earthly realm because we are very limited and dense beings... but I think we can get glimpses of, and have access to, natural expanded networks/systems and views that aren't convoluted with our ego. There are surely degrees and ranges of awareness and capability we can function from and within, yes? I think these may be the "differences" between people that you refer to. Still, I don't think this range of differences that we express precludes a fundamental connectivity and oneness throughout all.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
Common essence for me is the agreement that we live in imagination with the potential for living consciously which would reveal our common humanity.
Okay, so I think we're saying much of the same thing with the words rearranged a bit. I don't think of "common essence" as an "agreement"... but as a natural and connected state/quality.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
Are you open to the suggestion that we live in imagination as Plato described?
I absolutely think we are living in a limited dense state of our human minds -- so the description of "living in imagination" sounds familiar to me.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
The goal of the essence of religion as opposed to secularized religion is to serve the transition from mechanical evolution into conscious evolution. The Spirit allows us to awaken and freedom from the prison of imagination.
I think it's worth acknowledging that there are many, many people who are evolving consciously without any form of religion. And there are many, many people who are connected to spirit (or whatever one calls it), without any form of religion. This is a beautiful reality to WELCOME... and it should not be seen as a threat to religion, and those who use religion for their path. Neither should any kind of religion try to deny a human's natural ability to evolve consciously. Do you agree?
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
"Grace fills empty spaces, but it can only enter where there is a void to receive it We must continually suspend the work of the imagination in filling the void within ourselves."
I agree... even though I don't talk that way. My language refers to the noise and intoxication that people clog themselves up with -- and even those who claim to be aware are doing it. Humans are creators on Earth... and it takes ongoing clarity and awareness to recognize our (and others') creations for what they are. I think that when we "get ourselves out of the way" (and stop adding our creations over the top of everything)... we can recognize something much bigger that we are a part of. In my experience of doing this, my ego and identity cease in that space, and everything flows extraordinarily efficiently.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
Do you agree that even though trees exist as ONE from the perspective of the forest, they also have a unique identity?
Yes, I do. On this earth plane, I think humans get to act out in all kinds of ways. It's sort of like a drunken party. There are people who are smashing the place up. There are people over-indulging and passing out in the corner. There are people trying to be of help to others. And there are people standing on the lawn gazing up at the stars, and thinking big thoughts. :D

I think that... underlying it all... flowing through it all... animating and enlivening it all... is ONE spirit, without identity, because there is no need for an identity. The human vessels get to play out all sort of potentials in their land of intoxication. The ONE spirit is energized by it... possibly. I do not imagine this ONE spirit having needs or wants. I imagine it as simply creative and expanding. So I am resistant when people assign human-like attributes to it. Our attributes are based on limitation, as that is the world we know. The ONE spirit would not have any limitations.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:08 pm
Has anything I’ve written so far make sense to you?
Yes... as you can (hopefully?) see by my responses. Do my responses make sense to you, even though they don't use your language? Can you see/accept that conscious expansion (in any direction) is accessible to all, and does not require a specific path, and does not manifest with the same outer characteristics?

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Lacewing » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:22 am

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
I don’t know what you mean by conscious.
I said this because you refer to "evolving into conscious man", and you often present it as if the person you're responding to is NOT evolved/conscious, which makes it sound like you think you are.

I use the word conscious to mean paying attention, and noticing, and being awake/aware without the obscuring that happens from ego and habit -- operating above/outside of that foggy state.
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
I have experienced that it is far easier for me to admit I’m not conscious. Accept for brief intervals during the day, I function on automatic pilot you could call by habitual reactions. So the bottom line is rather than believing myself to be more conscious than you, I’ve discovered through efforts at self knowledge to affirm that I lack conscious self awareness.
OH MY GOD!!!!! I never imagined I would hear you say such a down-to-earth, honest thing. This has got to be the most glorious moment on this forum. :D I feel so happy!
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
I don’t know what you mean by awareness? Are you referring to the awareness that you live within a quality of consciousness far superior to yours? How would you distinguish it from drug induced altered states of consciousness which produce imagination?
Hopefully I somehow explained this well enough in my previous post (which you hadn't seen yet when you wrote this post). Awareness, for me, means seeing/functioning/being above or beyond the usual noise and denseness of thought that obscures broader clarity. Altered states can open a door to broader clarity... but I think it depends on the person... because some people will just be more dense or noisy in an altered state.
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
As I understand it, God IS so there is nothing to plan. Planning takes place within creation – within time and space.
Makes sense to me.
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
Lacewing wrote:Isn't it interesting to note the intersections of our ideas... rather than you casting me into some weird cave with a beast? And isn't it understandable that when you continually accuse me of what I'm not, I'm going to tell you that you're being an idiot? I much prefer this kind of balanced and honest discussion/communication.
You are too defensive about this IMO. Plato didn’t write the cave allegory as an attack.
But YOU do write it AT people, Nick. Instead of saying, "People do this, and people believe that...", you write it as "YOU do this, and YOU believe that..." -- which is a direct characterization of the person you are talking to, and these characterizations are WRONG. So what do you expect people to respond? If you're going to deny it, then you're not being honest. You've done it to me (and others) countless times. If you're going to claim that I'm being too defensive, then I think you're not taking responsibility for your communication and language. You can't talk that way to people and expect a reasonable discussion.
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
It is meant to be pondered for the sake of opening the mind. We are invited through efforts to know thyself if we are ruled by attachments as described? Can we inwardly turn to experience what creates the shadows? This isn’t an attack.
The way you're saying it right now is not an attack. This is not the way you normally say it. Are you aware of that? People have pointed it out to you repeatedly. Are you often in some sort of religious fog?
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
It is the same with the Great Beast analogy. It isn’t an insult or an attack. It really is just sociology.
It really is easy to say it just this way. So why don't you the rest of the time? If you don't believe what you do, look back through your posts in heated discussions, and notice the way you express these ideas by starting sentences with the word "You...". Such statements appear to invalidate what the other poster is saying to you... because you respond with "You believe..." and "You think..." -- even when they're telling you "that's not true." And you ignore them. I don't think there's any reason for you doing that UNLESS you have some other kind of agenda going on (or a mental illness)... both of which I've accused you of. :lol:
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
Since many lack consciousness and find it more attractive to be part of a group mind, society does become a Beast. It is incapable of conscious choice. Yet individuals within society can acquire a quality of consciousness which offers choice. But again, these ancient ideas aren’t attacks. They are the inspiration to question ourselves, what we are, and what we are objectively doing.
Nicely said! The value is so much clearer when you're not acting insane. :lol:
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:11 am
I have no reason to attack you. IMO we are all in the same position. We are all cave dwellers.
I don't think I've ever heard you admit to being a cave dweller yourself! Is this post really by Nick? Wonders never cease!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests