NSKimura wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm one who has absolute knowledge does not need any further confirmation or corroboration of that knowledge
do you have such knowledge'?
if you do please let me know of it.
i lack said knowledge.
NSKimura wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm
Where you got the idea of "God's moral compass" out of my argument is beyond me. Is this a strawman or a genuine case of misunderstanding from your part?
been a few weeks so forget the thread, but willing to discuss.
NSKimura wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm
It is more arrogant to say that we are arrogant for reasonably assuming that the morality we understand in every day parlance is not the morality that is expressed by the orthodox God or traditional Abrahamic monotheism.
why so?
NSKimura wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm
If the words 'good' and 'bad' and 'right and 'wrong' do not express what is supposed to be attributes of God and the things he wants us to avoid, ie, what God describes them and what has been transmitted since the beginning of religion, then it makes the situation even more incoherent than it is and you position is the less tenable one. You need a strong argument to support such an unreasonable and untenable position given the context in which we happen to be.
I see no need to demand for from my nature than what i am - I'm an ant - and view it a folly to demand God/Gods. - to be BE , and if they Be to be Be Good.
as an ant i not only do not demand that God/Gods exist, I do not even mandate as to their character as being "good".
as an ant within my limited nature per empiricism assume He/there do not exist (nor do i fixate upon their personalities of evil or goodness...............I leaave that to others of more ego who assume to know the knowable God/s. and speak for such deities.
NSKimura wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm
I never appealed to any of the arguments from evil in the OP, I merely suggested that it is incoherent for us to claim that God is testing us if we take 'test' to mean what we humans mean when we use the term, ie, when we are unsure and do not know so we go about making sure and knowing.
ok.
i mentioned Job in some thread - here or in another. which is just such a case.........the intent of the author who was a Believer in YHWH (if more Gods also, its not known from that work).
Job is about sumitital (Islam basically --1000 yr prior to that religion - but the Mulsims affirm the same God so Jon is kosher to both camps (Muslims/Christians).
gaffo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:29 amNSKimura wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:42 pm
Would that have been a good rebuttal?
NSKimura wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm
not sure there is a rebuttal.
as the bible says - "rain falls upon the just and the unjust"..................look at Job - God pissed on him, he remained humble and continued to believe upon the God that pissed on him, his humility mandated that he not make his god fit his image of morality.
precisely.
I agree, i'm an athiest BTW. agree with your view of Job and its message of humility.
NSKimura wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm
Talking of incoherence, you just accused me of being arrogant for assuming that the moral system expressed by God is not the one we should assume that accurately expresses God's moral qualities and yet here you are appealing to the bible. This is utter nonsense.
not nonsense if you can undestand my viewpoint.
i value the message from the works of the bible - some works i value more than others - the themes transend "which god" one worships.
i value Job because it is infinately humble.
though at the same time it is also makes it bleak as hell (literally and figuratively).
;-/,
NSKimura wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:20 pm
It is very arrogant of you to assume that you know what God means with 'just' and 'unjust'.
I'm an atheist! lol
i make not such demands.
only Believers make demands upon the nature of their God/s.