Re: The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time
Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:52 am
Good one, Nick.
For the discussion of all things philosophical, especially articles in the magazine Philosophy Now.
https://forum.philosophynow.org/
Excellent post.Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:32 am
As I understand it, God IS. God IS NOW. NOW by definition is not limited by time and space. Creation in contrast is a process taking place within NOW. The relative perception of linear time is an attribute of the process creation. However vertical time is an attribute of NOW making necessary the process of creation and manifestations of fractions of the whole. We normally assume that being moves through time but actually the perception of linear time moves through being, through NOW
Why bother to discuss anything related to God at all then.thedoc wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:59 pmYes, "a solution" to infinite regress which is in linear causal relation, a part of human logic, but you haven't demonstrated that God must obey your laws of logic, or any laws of logic, you have just implied that God does. You have made claims about the nature of God, so you bear the burden of proof.
Well, God then cannot create if He is not bounded by time.Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:32 amAs I understand it, God IS. God IS NOW. NOW by definition is not limited by time and space. Creation in contrast is a process taking place within NOW. The relative perception of linear time is an attribute of the process creation. However vertical time is an attribute of NOW making necessary the process of creation and manifestations of fractions of the whole. We normally assume that being moves through time but actually the perception of linear time moves through being, through NOWbahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:49 pm There are two states of affairs when it comes to act creation. These two state of affair are: (1) God only and (2) God and creation. The second state of affair follows the first one so there must be a substance which separate these state of affairs so called time, otherwise the act of creation is ill-defined. Either time is a emergent phenomena related to act of creation or not. The act of creation is impossible in the first case since time cannot be at the same time an emergent phenomena and a substance which allows the creation itself. The act of creation is possible in the second case but that makes God subject to time.
Can I say that within human logic one can deduce that God must be subject to time in order to create? God might be timeless. But this means that within human logic God cannot exist since we are dealing with a contradiction we cannot resolve. This means that the human logic is broken and cannot lead us toward the truth.
Creation within NOW is bounded by time. God IS so cannot be bounded by our perception of linear time. If linear time is relative and perceived differently what is objective time for you?bahman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:03 pmWell, God then cannot create if He is not bounded by time.Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:32 amAs I understand it, God IS. God IS NOW. NOW by definition is not limited by time and space. Creation in contrast is a process taking place within NOW. The relative perception of linear time is an attribute of the process creation. However vertical time is an attribute of NOW making necessary the process of creation and manifestations of fractions of the whole. We normally assume that being moves through time but actually the perception of linear time moves through being, through NOWbahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:49 pm There are two states of affairs when it comes to act creation. These two state of affair are: (1) God only and (2) God and creation. The second state of affair follows the first one so there must be a substance which separate these state of affairs so called time, otherwise the act of creation is ill-defined. Either time is a emergent phenomena related to act of creation or not. The act of creation is impossible in the first case since time cannot be at the same time an emergent phenomena and a substance which allows the creation itself. The act of creation is possible in the second case but that makes God subject to time.
That is not correct. The act of God should be timeless if God is timeless.
That I understand. I am arguing against that.
We cannot perceive time but we can deduce that it exists.
That is how we function. We are created rational being.
No. In fact we need evidences to start a rational discussion.
I don't believe so. I was born. We are just in philosophy of religion forum discussing related things.
The act of creation implies a creator.
I don’t understand why you believe this. Could you explain why the Great Chain of Being is just a collective fragment of human imagination?Creation is an imagined dream appearance within the already existing non-moving timeless ETERNAL NOW. The dream of separation, aka spacetime duality.