Philosophy Now Forum

All ontological arguments are wrong since we cannot be sure of existence of any being at all. The only certainty that we have is that experience exists.

Not even your own existence? And why do we need certainty?

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:52 am All ontological arguments are wrong since we cannot be sure of existence of any being at all. The only certainty that we have is that experience exists.

certainty... the next moment is certainly not guaranteed

-Imp

AtariKo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:22 pm Not even your own existence?

Yes. I am only certain that I experience and content of my experience has sometime a thing so called "I".

AtariKo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:22 pm And why do we need certainty?

We need certainty in existence in order to start an ontological argument.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:13 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:52 am All ontological arguments are wrong since we cannot be sure of existence of any being at all. The only certainty that we have is that experience exists.

certainty... the next moment is certainly not guaranteed

-Imp

We are either certain or not. We cannot be uncertain of certain or opposite.

Yes. I am only certain that I experience and content of my experience has sometime a thing so called "I".

If you’re certain that you experience, then you’re certain of you! I think, therefore I am!

Can you be certain of analytic or conceptual truths?

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:59 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:13 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:52 am All ontological arguments are wrong since we cannot be sure of existence of any being at all. The only certainty that we have is that experience exists.

certainty... the next moment is certainly not guaranteed

-Imp

We are either certain or not. We cannot be uncertain of certain or opposite.

one cannot be certain of future events; momentary certainty of the moment outside of the moment is no certainty

-Imp

AtariKo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:37 pm If you’re certain that you experience, then you’re certain of you! I think, therefore I am!

I have problem with that.

AtariKo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:37 pm Can you be certain of analytic or conceptual truths?

They are just content of my experience and they seem consistent.

I can’t be certain that “The beer is cold” if I’m not certain of the beer. Likewise, I can’t be certain that “I experience” if I’m not certain of I.

I don’t understand your response to my second question.

Also, doesn't your initial argument just beg the question? Might not the OA be the one exception to your claim that we can't be certain of any being's existence?

bahman wrote:
All ontological arguments are wrong since we cannot be sure of existence of any being at all

The only certainty that we have is that experience exists

That does not make them wrong just impossible to demonstrate

And how can you doubt your own existence but not the experiences you have

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:33 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:59 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:13 pm

certainty... the next moment is certainly not guaranteed

-Imp

We are either certain or not. We cannot be uncertain of certain or opposite.

one cannot be certain of future events; momentary certainty of the moment outside of the moment is no certainty

-Imp

It depends how far is the future what is the situation etc. I however said something else.

AtariKo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:04 am I can’t be certain that “The beer is cold” if I’m not certain of the beer. Likewise, I can’t be certain that “I experience” if I’m not certain of I.

"I" apparently is a construct of brain activity.

AtariKo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:04 am I don’t understand your response to my second question.

I am sorry that I cannot know how I can make it more clear than that. I cannot help it unless you help me.

AtariKo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:04 am Also, doesn't your initial argument just beg the question? Might not the OA be the one exception to your claim that we can't be certain of any being's existence?

No there is no begging the question. You will understand this if you understand what is subject of previous comment.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:08 pm

bahman wrote:
All ontological arguments are wrong since we cannot be sure of existence of any being at all

The only certainty that we have is that experience exists

That does not make them wrong just impossible to demonstrate

And how can you doubt your own existence but not the experiences you have

You lose the axiom therefore you have to find another way to prove God.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:52 am All ontological arguments are wrong since we cannot be sure of existence of any being at all. The only certainty that we have is that experience exists.

With that line of thinking, all arguments are wrong, period.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:08 am

bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:52 am All ontological arguments are wrong since we cannot be sure of existence of any being at all. The only certainty that we have is that experience exists.

With that line of thinking, all arguments are wrong, period.

Nah. Just underdetermined. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scie ... rmination/