Harbal wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:51 pm
Now perhaps you would like to explain why I should believe someone that tells me God exists.
Well, first and foremost, because the statement "I have not seen evidence" does not equate to "there IS no evidence." And secondly, because the statement "I don't know God," does not equate to "Nobody else does either." So you have insufficient reason to produce a denial.
But secondly, because the evidence is there to be investigated by anyone with a sincere desire to know it. And depending on the level of inquiry one wishes to undertake, it ranges from the very accessible, popular level to the most scholarly. It's all there to be investigated, for the satisfaction of the intellect.
But intellect won't do enough. At some point, you'll need a person experience with God. And that I cannot produce for you. He can, but I can't. And His willingness to do so is contingent on your willingness to have such an experience. As Christ said, "The one who has ears, let him hear." Not everybody has an ear to hear, even if they've got two. So you'll have to decide what you're willing to hear.
Not by me. And not by the Bible. If you try to look up "C of E" in the Bible, you won't find it there either.
I anticipate a great deal of disappointment within the Cof E when they find out they're not Christians.
Did I say that? Not here.
We were discussing authority, not identity. I said that C of E hierarchy and clergy do not have warrant from the Bible as "authorities." I neither said nor implied that no Christians attend the C of E. But you can see that, if you look back.
There are a lot of people in the World who call themselves Christians and I'm pretty sure they are not all in perfect agreement on the views of Christ.
Yes, of course. And Aristotle helps here. If they and I are in any true contradiction, then either they are right, or I am, or neither. But it is not rationally the case that both are right. There's no bigotry in saying so, since logic says it MUST be so.
So, when you suggest that a Christian is a higher ranking moral agent than an atheist,
I'm sorry...I do not recall when I raised an issue of "rank." Perhaps you'll point out to me when I did.
And what about the rest? Are they somewhere in between a bona fide Christian and an atheist?
Well, I am arguing for this definition: a "Christian" is a person who has a genuine relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ. This person may know
more or less, be more flawed
or less, be struggling
more or less...that's not the issue. The issue is, "Who is his Father"?
All other people who do not have such a relationship are not "ranked" at all, but in truth, are on exact par with every Atheist...for just as an Atheist has no relationship with God, so too such people, by the definition, would simply have to acknowledge that they also have no such relationship with God.
So there is no "in between," as you put it. There are those who are born again by the Spirit of God, and those who simply "cannot see the kingdom of God," just as Christ Himself said it would be.
It's never just about what
you know...it's really about Who