davidm wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:47 pm
What number of people do you think Christians killed last century, and in all the centuries since Christianity arose,
in the name of Christianity? Number, please.
None. But don't take my word for it. Common sense will tell you that too. There were no "wars of religion" at all in the last century. Not one. If you think otherwise, go ahead and name one. Vietnam? WW 1 or 2? The Korean War? The Cold War? The Six-Day War? What?
But I can still give you some helpful statistics. There are only 6.98% of the wars recorded in the
Encyclopedia of Wars in which "religion" can plausibly be attributed as any kind of significant possible motive at all. Half of these were Islamic. The other 3.49% comprise all the other religions in history combined -- Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Polytheism, Catholicism...and so on. The "Christian" contribution is historically undetectable, if it exists at all; for it is also clear that many groups, such as the Anabaptists and Quakers, never were responsible for any wars at all.
None. Zero. Ever.
Against Atheists, 148 million.
Stipulate, for the sake of argument, that it's true (though it's not) that 52 atheists killed 148 million people from 1917 to 2017. Let's accept this is true arguendo.
That's a straw man, even as a "gimme." I did not say "52 Atheists." Look back and see. In fact, there were a great many more than that. There were, in fact, whole regimes of them. It takes not just a despot, but desperate people willing to follow him in order to kill that many people..
EVEN IF THIS IS FACTUAL, IT DOES NOT MAKE ATHEISM FALSE AND THEISM TRUE.
You missed the point.
Nobody said it was the basis of judging the truth or falsehood of the ideology. Certainly, I did not. I have no idea where you picked up this bizarre idea.
We were speaking about Atheism's actions. And while you mention it, it's worth noting the absolute hypocrisy on the part of Atheists to indict
anybody with acts of war, violence or genocide. Historically,
nobody has ever come close to the homicidal Atheistic regimes of the modern period in terms of piling up the bodies.
But let's talk about that. You say you don't like the encyclopedia's figures. Well, how many would you guess? Would you grant the encyclopedia HALF of what it records...say, around 75 million or so? How about half of that? Say...let's drop to 30 million? Any takers?
But you say that it's difficult to know who the Atheists are. That's implausible. After all, "Atheism" requires but one simple criterion, rejection of the God hypothesis, and nothing more -- and its advocates -- like, say, the Marxists -- are never shy about proclaiming their Atheism. The revelled in it, in fact. Moreover, they did so in an age of journalism, newspapers, modern historical records, radio, TV and, in some cases, the internet.
And they killed 148 million people. And yet you cannot find
any of them?
Stipulate, for the sake of argument, that it's true (though it's not) that 52 atheists killed 148 million people from 1917 to 2017. Let's accept this is true arguendo.
Nobody said what you say was said here.
For example, I have no idea where you got the "52 Atheists" number. Maybe you misread the statistic that there's a 52% chance that the leader of an Atheist regime will kill at least 200,000 of his own people. But that' s the only "52" relevant, I think. There were way, way more than 52 bad Atheists, for their crimes could never have been perpetrated without massive support from others.
However, the 148 million number is, conservatively, correct. So let's accept that as true, because the true number is likely even higher.
EVEN IF THIS IS FACTUAL, IT DOES NOT MAKE ATHEISM FALSE AND THEISM TRUE.
Do you FINALLY get the point?
What "point"? I didn't argue what you attribute to me at all, so this is nothing more than a straw-man fabrication on your part.
False and true are not established on that basis. Rather, we were talking about the record of Atheism itself. See Page 2, bottom message.