How to exit the religious mess!

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Arising_uk
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Arising_uk » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote:I don't know what I said 2 seconds ago ...never mind a long time ago...claim what other.?
Blimey! Less than a goldfish.

thedoc
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by thedoc » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:31 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:49 pm
thedoc wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:11 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:25 pm


Forget about other people, have YOU known death? have you ever died?
.
Yes I have, but my defibrillator kick started my heart again at least 3 different times and I'm still alive.
What was it like being dead?
Frightening, but it gave me a different perspective on living.

Belinda
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Belinda » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:19 am

Dontaskme , and me, and every human being, is a body/mind. Bodies are necessary for mind to exist. Reality is both body and mind.

Dontaskme, feeling that one is body is a safe feeling for most people.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:35 am

thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:31 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:49 pm
thedoc wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:11 pm


Yes I have, but my defibrillator kick started my heart again at least 3 different times and I'm still alive.
What was it like being dead?
Frightening, but it gave me a different perspective on living.
You can't BE dead. You are fooling yourself.

thedoc
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by thedoc » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:14 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:35 am
thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:31 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:49 pm


What was it like being dead?
Frightening, but it gave me a different perspective on living.
You can't BE dead. You are fooling yourself.
Have you had the experience? if not quit projecting your lack onto others.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:13 pm

thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:14 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:35 am
thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:31 am


Frightening, but it gave me a different perspective on living.
You can't BE dead. You are fooling yourself.
Have you had the experience? if not quit projecting your lack onto others.
You cannot BE dead. You cannot have experience of death. The idea is logically false; definitively false.
You can't smell yellow, you can't see Fsharp above middle C, you can't be dead.

thedoc
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by thedoc » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:13 pm
thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:14 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:35 am


You can't BE dead. You are fooling yourself.
Have you had the experience? if not quit projecting your lack onto others.
You cannot BE dead. You cannot have experience of death. The idea is logically false; definitively false.
You can't smell yellow, you can't see Fsharp above middle C, you can't be dead.
I never claimed that I am still dead, just that I have died and come back.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:13 pm

thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:13 pm
thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:14 pm


Have you had the experience? if not quit projecting your lack onto others.
You cannot BE dead. You cannot have experience of death. The idea is logically false; definitively false.
You can't smell yellow, you can't see Fsharp above middle C, you can't be dead.
I never claimed that I am still dead, just that I have died and come back.
You did not die.

thedoc
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by thedoc » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:20 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:13 pm
thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:13 pm


You cannot BE dead. You cannot have experience of death. The idea is logically false; definitively false.
You can't smell yellow, you can't see Fsharp above middle C, you can't be dead.
I never claimed that I am still dead, just that I have died and come back.
You did not die.
You don't know that.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:48 pm

thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:20 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:13 pm
thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pm


I never claimed that I am still dead, just that I have died and come back.
You did not die.
You don't know that.
For the reasons already stated I am telling you that. This is not open to opinion. You only die once, since you are not now dead, then you did not die.
You are just making a arse of yourself.

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Dontaskme
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:29 pm

thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:03 pm
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:13 pm
thedoc wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:14 pm


Have you had the experience? if not quit projecting your lack onto others.
You cannot BE dead. You cannot have experience of death. The idea is logically false; definitively false.
You can't smell yellow, you can't see Fsharp above middle C, you can't be dead.
I never claimed that I am still dead, just that I have died and come back.
Doc, did you have a clinical death or a complete brain/biological death?

And why was it frightening?

Are you afraid to let go of what is a natural organic process that knows what it is doing?

.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Arising_uk
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Arising_uk » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:31 pm

thedoc wrote:Have you had the experience? if not quit projecting your lack onto others.
Can you describe the experience of actually being dead?

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Dontaskme
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:36 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:31 pm
thedoc wrote:Have you had the experience? if not quit projecting your lack onto others.
Can you describe the experience of actually being dead?

One cannot experience death, and same goes for alive, one cannot experience alive.

.

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:38 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:37 am
Belinda wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:17 am
I thought I did say that there is objective awareness which is verified by the presence of brain chemicals, electronic brain scan, and correlation with report from the subject.
Alright then, yes you are correct to say this...an objective awareness in relation to the subject awareness reporting to the brain the story of events as recognised by the objective brain itself....the objective awareness being the conscious aspect aka memory)of the unconscious subject awareness knowing..is this correct ?

.
The objectives are all the physical components, independent of rationalization. The subjectives are the particular rationalizations based upon a unique set of experiences. They are always continuously variable, dependent upon the current particular string of experiences, where fear, denial, sequence, intensity, want/desire, and peer pressure come into play, to name a few. Both the objective and subjective are fed deterministically in nature, due to evolution thus environment (epigenetics), with a dash of limited willfulness thrown in here and there.

This is the brain, the mind, as it either deals with other more day to day type things or it considers itself like here and now in this topic of discussion, such that any perceived or unperceived limitations, says as much about it as it does the argument. Ignorance of the others partial understanding, by it's partial understanding, they reason we argue. The young immature hero wanting to know it all, yet is still quite too small, as are we all. If only the fractured oneness was whole, then truly as much as we can currently know! ;-) :-*

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: How to exit the religious mess!

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:59 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:59 am
Belinda wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:17 am
It's not to be doubted that often enough we are aware when we have been dreaming. Memory is one of our sources of information. The other source of our information is the world outside of our heads. When we remember a dream we are unable to remember the pure dream which has memory only as its information source and we cannot use the part of our brain minds which make up intelligible stories and explanations. It is only after we wake up that we remember the dream but by that time we simply cannot remember the simple dream content minus our interpretation of it.
Just as we are not able to remember our dreams...we are not able to remember the events of waking life....since all empirical data is stored as memory ..In this immediate present moment nothing ever happens...what happens is from memory brought to life now....NOW CANNOT HAPPEN...it's ONE SEAMLESS ENDLESS CONSTANT FLOW....what does happen now instantaneously becomes past ...so The only thing alive here is memory...memory is always from the past, and so it's a kind of death brought back to life NOW... death is this aliveness, or aliveness is this death....they are the same one state appearing different.

It's only ever NOW...future never happens, as future can only happen NOW...past doesn't exist, because past is only memory...neither does future exist. So all we have here living life is Only this silent background awareness aware of the embodied experience called life.

There is no "me" to experience AWARENESS - there's only AWARENESS..
Me is any particular container of awareness capability, though any particular container is not necessarily completely aware. Cases in point! Are we all actually completely heroes? Yes, I know we all want to be!

What is experienced as embodied being typically is projection, not perception. The mind-created-sense-of "me" (personal-identity) is an illusion, a mental projection, not actual. Meaning we take something as so..that isn't so.

So, "what" is writing these words here? "What" is reading these words now? "What" worries about understanding "this" or "that", "what's" afraid of "them" and "those"? A made-up person, with a made-up history and a made-up personality. Made up by mind. It is mind writing these words and mind interpreting these words.

That which is aware of all of "this and that", saying nothing, thinking nothing, doing nothing about any of it, is Self simply noticing mind illuminated by awareness (Self).

And what is noticed is mind and that which is not-mind (Self) watching mind. And that which is not-mind contains mind. In a sense, not-mind is an ever opened doorway, never closed.
.
Your rationalizations have been discombobulated. Though there are bits of truth here and there. As with all, it's your summation that requires a bit of work! We'll get there one day, it's just not today! And as I see it, we won't realize that day for quite some time, if ever!

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