Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:57 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:07 am
It does appear then that the human mind is what makes up the ideas of heaven and hell...where they don't actually exist in the real world.
If they are not in the real world, and nothing can be know of the un-real or supernatural world, then heaven and hell become words of fictional places.
Is the personified human mind really God's mind or what? ...or does God not have a mind?
If a supernatural God has a mind and wants to be relevant to man, then he would have to pop up and show himself, or at least show his mind at work. We have no evidence of either and the smart money will reject the supernatural as real.
Before we can make judgements about what's fair in the world and what isn't, we need to understand what's really going on, by slowly and surely unravelling everything we have been conditioned to think and believe about life....remembering that none of us have ever been alive before, so what the heck do we really know about what's going on...I think it's going to be a long unravelling of all our human conditioning in the attempt to get right back to fundamental grassroots of why everything is the way it is..
A waste of time and endless argument.

Best to decide what kind of world we want, regardless of our past, and forge ahead instead of sitting and arguing about a past we can never know.

Men, basically, are presently running things.
Men ruling the world has gifted us with 5,000 years of war.
All we need know of the past is that for the preceding 20,000 years, before testosterone ruled, we had a lot less warfare and did not even bother fortifying our cities.

Men have to back off and follow women if peace is ever to return to the majority of the world.

Author, Laurens van der Post, thinks that that change to cultural sanity has to be led by African women.

I think it has to be led by men who can ignored their testosterone thinking for better thinking.

Regards
DL

Dontaskme
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:05 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:57 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:07 am
It does appear then that the human mind is what makes up the ideas of heaven and hell...where they don't actually exist in the real world.
If they are not in the real world, and nothing can be know of the un-real or supernatural world, then heaven and hell become words of fictional places.
Is the personified human mind really God's mind or what? ...or does God not have a mind?
If a supernatural God has a mind and wants to be relevant to man, then he would have to pop up and show himself, or at least show his mind at work. We have no evidence of either and the smart money will reject the supernatural as real.
Before we can make judgements about what's fair in the world and what isn't, we need to understand what's really going on, by slowly and surely unravelling everything we have been conditioned to think and believe about life....remembering that none of us have ever been alive before, so what the heck do we really know about what's going on...I think it's going to be a long unravelling of all our human conditioning in the attempt to get right back to fundamental grassroots of why everything is the way it is..
A waste of time and endless argument.

Best to decide what kind of world we want, regardless of our past, and forge ahead instead of sitting and arguing about a past we can never know.

Men, basically, are presently running things.
Men ruling the world has gifted us with 5,000 years of war.
All we need know of the past is that for the preceding 20,000 years, before testosterone ruled, we had a lot less warfare and did not even bother fortifying our cities.

Men have to back off and follow women if peace is ever to return to the majority of the world.

Author, Laurens van der Post, thinks that that change to cultural sanity has to be led by African women.

I think it has to be led by men who can ignored their testosterone thinking for better thinking.

Regards
DL
There is no male.

There is only fe/male.

And that is why truth always wins out in the end.

The planet earth is ascending to christ/sophia consciousness...because s/he is love.

But first s/he will whip your ass into shape as we see with all the chaos...there is a consciousness shift taking place towards anarchy right now...there is much purging to be done...to deconstruct the false teaching establishments including religious organisations ...this anarchy is the only route toward a better understanding of our true self of who we are and what this reality is all about...no human being has authority over and above what is essentially natures domain.

S/he is a natural wo/man...and there is no man here on earth, man enough to take her on.


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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:58 pm

"The planet earth is ascending to christ/sophia consciousness...because s/he is love."

You might see evidence for this but I have yet to see it.

You will not change immoral male attitudes by denying males their designation of male for themselves.

Try that in an O.P. and see how far you get.

Regards
DL

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:10 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:58 pm

Try that in an O.P. and see how far you get.

Regards
DL
The human mind is always out to get somewhere or get some thing... when there is nowhere or any thing to get...there is no such thing as a human mind except the belief there is.

The human mind is the seen - seen by that which cannot be seen.




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osgart
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by osgart » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:53 pm

existence ain't some idealistic comic book fantasy about God. look at the picture of that child, and get your head out of the ground.

omnipotence, are you kidding?

justice is created by humans. and any intelligence that made us, isn't in control of everything by a long shot.

if anything religion should be an inward journey aspiring to master one's self, and aspiring to the higher angels of our own human nature.
religion should also seek better relationship according to justice with all human beings.

eternal life isn't a known fact by anyone. So make the highest worth of life on earth.

it's a shame that we don't have a system of government that respects the dignity of all human life. cooperation lives longer, and better than fierce competition.

everyone is entitled to an education.

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:32 pm

osgart wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:53 pm
existence ain't some idealistic comic book fantasy about God. look at the picture of that child, and get your head out of the ground.

omnipotence, are you kidding?

justice is created by humans. and any intelligence that made us, isn't in control of everything by a long shot.

if anything religion should be an inward journey aspiring to master one's self, and aspiring to the higher angels of our own human nature.
religion should also seek better relationship according to justice with all human beings.

eternal life isn't a known fact by anyone. So make the highest worth of life on earth.

it's a shame that we don't have a system of government that respects the dignity of all human life. cooperation lives longer, and better than fierce competition.

everyone is entitled to an education.
Inward journey is what Gnostic Christianity preaches and teaches.

So does the bible but you will never see the church teach or preach that part of it as the do not want thinking people. They want dues paying sheeple ready for more fleecing.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Gnosis is the answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QI3nlinYQ

Regards
DL

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:39 pm

osgart wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:53 pm
everyone is entitled to an education.
The thing about rights and entitlements is that they are fictional without a force there to punish those who would deny people those rights and privileges.

There are no rights or entitlements without law to impose penalties against those who would deny them.

Regards
DL

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by osgart » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:51 am

what I think you are driving at, is that evil is a correctable problem eventually. i believe that you have to have effective punishment equal to the crime to effect a change in a criminal.

There are plenty of criminals deserving of worse than death though.
but if there is an eternity of living out there, than maybe perhaps with the right punishment all evil will be conquered in the hearts of humankind eventually. even if it takes ions of punishment and loss, perhaps an evil person is changeable. Justice must rule for that to ever happen.

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:59 pm

osgart wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:51 am
what I think you are driving at, is that evil is a correctable problem eventually. i believe that you have to have effective punishment equal to the crime to effect a change in a criminal.

There are plenty of criminals deserving of worse than death though.
but if there is an eternity of living out there, than maybe perhaps with the right punishment all evil will be conquered in the hearts of humankind eventually. even if it takes ions of punishment and loss, perhaps an evil person is changeable. Justice must rule for that to ever happen.
The cause of man to man evil is competition.
In evolution, we have to compete or be weakened as a species.
Do you see that? Knowing that, do we really want to weaken our species?

Regards
DL
Last edited by Greatest I am on Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

osgart
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by osgart » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:10 pm

so what are we evolving into evil competitors. evil is a destructive force, chaos results from it. so we recognize the need for rules in society. The natural man wants to compete. the spiritual man recognizes need as the driving motivating force. the need for compassion, and justice.
capitalism is a jungle with rules, and rules make mankind better.

love is the prime motive of success though, not competition. it all depends on understanding and what motivates.

a lot of people have that attitude though, lose the weak. we can't all be lions and bears.

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:27 pm

osgart wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:10 pm
so what are we evolving into evil competitors. evil is a destructive force, chaos results from it. so we recognize the need for rules in society. The natural man wants to compete. the spiritual man recognizes need as the driving motivating force. the need for compassion, and justice.
capitalism is a jungle with rules, and rules make mankind better.

love is the prime motive of success though, not competition. it all depends on understanding and what motivates.

a lot of people have that attitude though, lose the weak. we can't all be lions and bears.
You went all over the map.

Go back and answer what I put and then we can continue in a coherent way, which is not what I would call this post of yours.

Regards
DL

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by seeds » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:19 am

seeds wrote: I am aware of where DL is coming from in his effort to have humans abandon any hope of there being an actual heaven above and beyond this world, but he needs to understand the full implications of his arguments and perhaps find a better way to present his case.
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:44 pm
I have a slightly longer version of what I put but few have what it takes to think in pure logic.
DL, I believe we’ve had this conversation before in that I have previously agreed with your efforts to expose the problems with Christianity.

However, there is absolutely nothing “purely logical” about your endless ranting and vitriol directed at other humans who have unwittingly been indoctrinated into belief systems from which they are unable to free themselves for various reasons.

Your lack of empathy in that regard speaks volumes about the benefits of your Gnosticism.

(Continued in next post)
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by seeds » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:21 am

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(Continued from prior post)
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:44 pm
Do you deny that we live in the only possible world possible given all the past condition?
Yes, I absolutely and unequivocally deny that we live in the only possible world.
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:44 pm
Logically you cannot without destroying entropy and the anthropic principle.
How in the world does the possibility of there existing a transcendent level of reality – above and outside of this level of reality – destroy entropy and the anthropic principle?

(Continued in next post)
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seeds
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Post by seeds » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:22 am

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(Continued from prior post)
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:44 pm
It is irrefutable that we live in the best of all possible worlds,...
It is not “irrefutable” because I am refuting it (of course I can’t prove it, but I can certainly refute it).
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:44 pm
...given that it is the only possible world.
For you to presume and then declare with such brazen self-assuredness that this is the only “possible” world, is all anyone needs to know in terms of how serious you should be taken.

Again, I respect your efforts to expose the nonsense handed down to us from our ancient ancestors.

However, you need to put yourself in the place of those whom you judge and realize that it could just as easily be an earlier version of you on the receiving end of your ridicule (i.e., a younger and spiritually naïve you, prior to your presumed enlightenment).
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