How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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surreptitious57
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:19 am

ken post wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Physics books want you to read them ken for they do
not want you getting all of your information from me
Physics books themselves do NOT want any thing. You just want Me to read physics
books so I will stop trying to clarify from you what it is you are actually trying to say
Physics books know more about physics than I do which is very little. This is why reading them is
better than asking me questions. Although reading them would not stop you from asking me any

surreptitious57
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:25 am

ken wrote:
response directly before this one you said that there are many universes and the smaller ones are individually
unique meaning that they are different but now you are proposing that Multiverse and Universe are the same
universe and Universe are not the same

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:27 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:50 am
ken wrote:
You observe and see that time exists and things happen within that. I do not observe and see that. So I am unable to you how what you observe
and see is not true. I can only learn how to express what I observe and see better. I have already explained that I do not observe and see time as
some actual thing. If for example you are 20 light years away from earth at this given moment what is the time and what is time ? Where are you
in relation to time ? And how are things happening in time
Here is a post written by you that is very clear and precise and so therefore makes sense
Unfortunately not all your posts are like this even though it would be better if they were
Thanks for telling Me this. I actually know that I should explain all the things I observe and see in a much more concise way with examples so that what I can see and understand is better understood by others. But that is not My main goal. My main goal is to explain and show HOW others can become more open so that they can observe and see the Truth for themselves. I do NOT want others to accept nor follow any thing I see or say, just because it makes sense and/or is right. I want people to accept and follow what they, themselves, see and understand is the real and accurate Truth as they are observing It by and for themselves. I know that there is only One real Truth, and if and when EVERY one is seeing and understanding that Truth, together as One, then I will get what I truly want - that is everyone working together as One - which will be making Life better for My children. I do not want people worshiping nor following others. I would like people doing and following what they, themselves, KNOW is right.

surreptitious57
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:33 am

ken wrote:
Do you really believe that you can use any words that you like to any person
that you like and that you have no control whatsoever over how they respond
Yes I do because I cannot access their emotions only they can
And how they respond to me is therefore entirely up to them

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:37 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:02 am
ken wrote:
I DO have full and real control over My life
Here is a post written by you that is not clear and precise and you should know why. You say I DO have full and real control over My life
But you do not explain why so I have no idea what you mean so can you make sure you always adequately explain your self from now on
I am God, and so very easily I DO have full and real control over My Life.

WHY I do usually is only understood AFTER you understand HOW I do.

The reason I can not adequately explain "My Self", (which by the way is the wrong use of words), from now on is because of the length of time it takes to show each definition I need to show for each word to be fully understood for what it means in relation to each and every other word. To see and understand the big and full picture of Life, ALL needs to be understood. On top of that if the definition I use for just one word is not accepted, then the rest will not work. I am also, obviously, unable to adequately explain some thing, like the one and only Mind for example, if and when another does not and will not accept that that could even be true.

If there is not an inquiring Mind, then there is nothing new to show and reveal.

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:41 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:50 am
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sometimes mind and brain are used synonymously but more accurately mind is a function of the brain
If the mind is more accurately a function of the brain then are you able to explain how this is so
I have absolutely no idea so you should not be asking me since I cannot help you
You could study the brain and then you would know the answer to that question
But I already do KNOW how the Mind and the brain work.

I was asking you a clarifying question because you were claiming a truth about the Mind being a function of the brain. I asked the clarifying question so that if you were honest, which you totally were, then it could be brought to light that you say I am wrong and that you are right but when questioned you do not really know what you are talking about. That is precisely how the Mind and the brain works. In My case I was using the Mind, whereas, you were using the brain only.

surreptitious57
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:50 am

As I already said I do not use words like Mind or God because of their metaphysical baggage and for me a better one
is Reality. That simply means ALL THERE IS and unlike the other two is to all intents and purposes rather impersonal

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:07 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:31 pm
I understand it perfectly well but probably will not accept it for myself because of the way my mind thinks
But I do find that as I get older I become more detached so have fewer fixed opinions on anything anymore
That sense of detachment gives me peace of mind and keeps the ego in check hence the reason why I say I
know nothing at all. Not entirely true. But knowledge is ephemeral for we are all only just passing through
Having fewer fixed opinions, assumptions, and/or beliefs, et cetera and becoming more detached is what is meant when it is said 'letting go'.

Within every human body there are two beings; one is the 'person', who is made up of the thoughts and the internal feelings. This person thinks they know what is right, but ALL perceptions of the "world" around the body that person is in, comes from what information has been fed into that brain, through and from the five senses of the body. This person is the sum of all the experiences that that body has experienced, and this person usually only looks at, observes, and sees the "world" through only that inputted and already gathered and stored information. When a person looks at things from only its stored information, and especially if some of that stored information is held as strong assumptions and/or beliefs, then this distorts what the actual Truth is 'out-there', outside of the body. Being able to let go of this person who is observing from and with strong opinion, convictions, beliefs, et cetera allows that person to become far more open, which how new things are really learned, discovered, seen, and understood.

Letting go of the closed, personal-'self', allows the truly open, God-'Self' to come through, which shines a light on Truth and thus also allowing ALL to be revealed.

As human beings we are ALL only children in Life, passing through as you say, and learning about Life, from Life, Its Self. But as all children individually "should" grow up into being truly responsible adults (and parents), human beings as a collective are also just children, but eventually human beings on whole will grow up into A Being that is a truly responsible adult (and parent) just like God is professed to be.

When ALL adult human beings are behaving civilly with each other and working together as One in order to create and achieve what they ALL truly want, then they will be acting just like God, and behaving truly responsible. They will then, but not necessarily meaning to, be creating a heavenly peaceful place for ALL children - which is ALL human beings themselves together as One. The learning will always continue, but because learning will becoming through a truly open perspective thus a truly freely and non-forceful way, the advancements and speed of progression will be incomparable to slowness of advancement and progression now.

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:17 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:49 pm
I do not use words such as God or Mind because of the heavy metaphysical baggage that comes with them
Instead the word I use is Reality which like Universe simply means ALL THERE IS and includes the past and
present and future and everything that is known and unknown in relation to existence in any form it takes
Okay that is fine. How you use words is totally your choice. But can you see the predicament I am in when you say that I should give clarifying answers and explain things in a clear and precise way? It is very hard to give clarifying answers, when questions have not been asked, and do this in a clear and precise way to EVERY human being WHEN EVERY human being uses words differently. Thus the reason I like people to ask Me their individual clarifying question, and for them to answer Mine so that I can gain some kind of perspective of where they are coming from.

The word 'reality' for example can be a very "loaded" word, which is solely depended upon a person and how they observe things. By the way the way you use the word Reality is very different than the way I use. Also, the words God and Mind do NOT necessarily come with heavy metaphysical baggage, but again this is obviously depended upon the observer. Also, you see the word 'metaphysical' as being "baggage" in of itself, if I recall correctly?

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:31 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:07 pm
surreptitious57 wrote:
ken wrote:

If the mind is more accurately a function of the brain then are you able to explain how this is so
I have absolutely no idea so you should not be asking me since I cannot help you
What I mean by this is that I think mind is a function of the brain but I cannot be absolutely certain that it is
Just by the use of the word 'think' as in 'I think ..." shows Me that you are somewhat open already. By saying that way, you are telling Me, although unknowingly, that you are somewhat open.

If and when people use words like, 'I think ...', 'I view ...', and/or 'How I view ... is because of my past experiences', et cetera, then just that would make the "world" a much more easier going and friendly better place.

By the way you can be absolutely sure when you discover and/or learn just how the Mind and the brain actually work.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:07 pm
Just because I frame a proposition as a statement does not mean it is true for it could just as easily be false
That is right, but if you want to express as clear and as precise as possible, then this needs fact needs to be expressed clearly. If people do not express that the proposition is just that - that is some thing that could be true or false, then some times other people will take that statement, which is being expressed, as being a truth claim.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:07 pm
Its always best to keep an open mind on things that you are not entirely sure about for quite obvious reasons
Yes very true and does not need to be expressed to Me.

By the way how does one keep an "open mind", (as you call it)?

Or, how do people come to have a "closed mind", (as you would call it)?

Finding and discovering how the Mind is kept open and how It seems to become closed is great knowledge to obtain. That knowledge is very insightful to have also into how the Mind and the brain actually work, and in how to use and look from one over the other.

ken
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:50 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:55 am
ken wrote:
You have only established some thing to you. And because it is now an established truth
to you you are not open to any thing other than what you have already established to you
Yet as I have shown in the previous post I was open because I changed my mind
And, I have already acknowledged that you were somewhat open. I always feel delighted when people are open and they see things for themselves.

Who and/or what is the 'my' in "my mind"?

What is the actual "mind"?

What does the "mind" change from, and into?

And, how can the "mind" actually be changed?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:55 am
so do not think that once
someone has made up their mind about something that it can never ever be changed again as it clearly can
But I would NEVER think any thing like that because, to Me, the Mind is NOTHING even remotely like what you "think" it is.

By the way What do you think the 'mind' is again?

After you answer that, then it will be revealed just how much difference there actually is between what 'I' observe and see and what 'you' observe and see, regarding the Mind, and the mind.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:55 am
I am less certain about anything the older I get so even if I do make absolute statements it does not mean that I think they
are forever true.
Why then make absolute statements?

What is the purpose of doing so?

Why not just make truth statements, like, 'I think ...... is correct', or 'I view ..... is correct because of past experiences show me ....'?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:55 am
I only hold them to be true at the time I made them but I may subsequently change my mind at any time
Ah okay, so you are holding things to be true when you make them, but the truth is they might not actually be true at all.

My obvious question now would be Why hold onto some thing as being true, when it might not be true at all?

In other words, Why not just remain open, always?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:55 am
I wish that I could be absolutely uncertain about everything from now
on because I no longer want to be certain about anything ever again
But you can be absolutely uncertain about every thing from now on if that is what you truly wish.

The ONLY thing that I am certain of is that I can do, achieve, and create that what I truly set out to do, achieve, and create.

ken
Posts: 2075
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:07 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:45 am
ken wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
And so anything you say that I do not accept is neither of these. Such as for example your claim that there is no mind
I absolutely have NO idea what you actually see when you read the words that I write. I have NEVER
I repeat NEVER claimed that there is no Mind. Honestly this is becoming more and more ridiculous
You have very clearly stated and on multiple occasions that there is no such thing as anyones mind
Read the post two below this one in which you said I said there is no such thing as any ones mind
Please tell Me that you can see the difference between there is no mind AND there is no such thing as any ones mind. If you can NOT see the difference and tell them apart, then just say so and I will explain HOW they are very different indeed.

ken
Posts: 2075
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:09 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:21 am
ken wrote:
Do I really NEED to explain absolutely every little thing for you
Yes you really do NEED to explain absolutely every little thing because if you do not I might not truly understand what it is you are trying to say
You might also have to explain things multiple times for I might not understand the first time or I might but may forget so have to be reminded
Okay, that is fair enough.

Dontaskme
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Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:16 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:35 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Knowledge is illusory because no one knows knowledge
KNOWLEDGE is a passing illusory sound and vision show that appears to happen to that which never happens
Knowledge by definition has to be known as there cannot be unknown knowledge. It is temporary but real
If CONSCIOUSNESS manifests through all living things then that is knowledge. Experience is also knowledge
Yeah, and like I've said for the million umpteenth time..there is knowledge, but no one knows it, or owns it...knowledge is an auditory illusory manifestation of sound and vision.Knowledge informs illusory reality. Wisdom understands reality as illusory.
Knowledge (perception) knows the world, but then ask yourself,...can the perceiver be perceived?

There is only perception, arising out of thin air...look around you and all you see is thin air in which everything is appearing in.


But then again, don't take my word for it S57..discover this for yourself...

“I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. ... The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth.- Jiddu Krishnamurti”


.

It's okay to live in the world of things and be a human being S57...but always try to remember just who or what it is ...that is actually living here?

Know the difference between reality and fantasy, real and unreal... and then just play with life ..it's all perfectly free and beautiful actually...

.
Last edited by Dontaskme on Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

ken
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am

Re: How do Christians Expect to Convert Atheists?

Post by ken » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:23 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:36 am
ken wrote:
asked you if you ever experience frustration feelings when others ignore you or dismiss what you say and you said that does
not happen to you. That is great as I said earlier. I wanted you to share this secret of how you do it but you do not want to
There is no secret to share you just decided there was for some unknown reason
The reason I decided that there was a secret is because no human being I know of knows how to prevent and/or stop internal feelings from arising before they arise, so I would suggest in a way it is some kind of secret.

Although I think it would be near impossible to prevent emotions arising I know full well that it is very easy to not notice emotions that have appeared and/or to block them, in the sense of not recognizing them and being aware that they are there. Human beings do this countless times throughout every day. But this is very different from being able to block emotions completely before they appear.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:36 am
As I have explained many times I avoid other human beings and just let things be
But I have stated that there is only one Mind, and you have certainly not let this be.

I also do not ever recall seeing before that you avoid other human beings. Why do you try to avoid human beings? And, being here in this forum I see as the very opposite of avoiding human beings. Just by being here and responding to other human beings you are very much interacting with Me and (other) human beings.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:36 am
I am only passing through here and so my time in this world is merely temporary
Every person has an actual beginning so every person is only "passing" through and is merely temporary, from that perspective.

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