Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:37 pm

Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?

I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human.

Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.

From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct.

Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?

I do not see God as justified in punishing us and that is why Gnostic Christians like me are Universalists.

I see us all as not requiring salvation. God would not do evil by punishing us for doing what we must do to survive and thrive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exsultet
“O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam”.
“in the light of paradise, even the sin of Adam may be regarded as truly necessary and a happy fault.”



If sin and doing evil is good and necessary for Adam, who represents all of mankind, then the church and I are suggesting that it is good that we all do evil.

It seems that nature, or God, if you are into the supernatural, ultimately, created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection. This knowledge frees the mind.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:48 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Is doing evil a necessity of life?
Depends what you mean by "evil"?
Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?
Hardly all the 'ancients'.
I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human. ...
What do you mean by 'fittest' here?
Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser. ...
Does it necessarily create a victim or a loser? Why does it not just create the best person for the job and why would that not benefit the group of which presumably this loser is part of.
From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct. ...
Well we appear the have bypassed the old selection systems and many who would be 'unifit' now survive and that seems to have made us far from going extinct.
Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?
Depends which 'God' you believe in I guess. Me, I think there will be no punishment from such a being.
I do not see God as justified in punishing us and that is why Gnostic Christians like me are Universalists.

I see us all as not requiring salvation. God would not do evil by punishing us for doing what we must do to survive and thrive. ...
I thought Universalists believed that all would be saved?
If sin and doing evil is good and necessary for Adam, who represents all of mankind, then the church and I are suggesting that it is good that we all do evil. ...
Both you and the church both appear to be able to live with contradictions then. But I can see why as you Gnostics think the world of substance evil do you not and only the spirit world of any import.
It seems that nature, or God, if you are into the supernatural, ultimately, created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection. This knowledge frees the mind.
So say all psychopaths.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:12 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Is doing evil a necessity of life?
Depends what you mean by "evil"?
I do not have a new definition in mind but evil is usually something we do not like while good are what we like.
Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?
Hardly all the 'ancients'.
True. There are always exceptions.
I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human. ...
What do you mean by 'fittest' here?
You would have to ask Darwin as fittest can change depending on the environment at hand.
In our history, the fittest have generally been the brightest minds. Unfortunately, they have not always been the powerful.
Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser. ...
Does it necessarily create a victim or a loser? Why does it not just create the best person for the job and why would that not benefit the group of which presumably this loser is part of.
It does identify the fittest and usually the group benefits, and I do not know what else I would call the least fit other than a loser to that particular competition, whatever it is. I am open to suggestions.
From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct. ...
Well we appear the have bypassed the old selection systems and many who would be 'unifit' now survive and that seems to have made us far from going extinct.
True in many cases thanks to safety nets, but natural eugenics cannot be denied as the fitter have a better life and chance at passing on their genes.
Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?
Depends which 'God' you believe in I guess. Me, I think there will be no punishment from such a being.
In that, we are of the same mind.
I do not see God as justified in punishing us and that is why Gnostic Christians like me are Universalists.

I see us all as not requiring salvation. God would not do evil by punishing us for doing what we must do to survive and thrive. ...
I thought Universalists believed that all would be saved?
More like we all get to our best possible end, some call that heaven, on our own merit, as there is no supernatural entity to save us from his own condemnation.
If sin and doing evil is good and necessary for Adam, who represents all of mankind, then the church and I are suggesting that it is good that we all do evil. ...
Both you and the church both appear to be able to live with contradictions then. But I can see why as you Gnostics think the world of substance evil do you not and only the spirit world of any import.
I do not see any contradiction in what I have put. I do not speak for Christianity.

As to our Gnostic Christian beliefs, you have read the distortion or half truth that the church propagated when they decimated us and burned most of our scriptures. The following is what we believe of matter. We embrace it as the best of all possible worlds as it is the home of the only God we can ever truly know.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
It seems that nature, or God, if you are into the supernatural, ultimately, created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection. This knowledge frees the mind.
So say all psychopaths.
Nice way to end an otherwise decent reply.

Was that really called for?

Regards
DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:02 pm

Greatest I am wrote:...
Was that really called for?
You're basically saying to know good one must do evil so yes, I think that psychotic. Not saying you personally are mind.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:42 pm

Even if you are a vegan you are eating something that some other creature could have eaten. Being alive is someone else's evil.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by bobevenson » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:46 pm

Is doing evil a necessity of life? No.
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
-Revelation 17:17, a description of the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in chapter and verse.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:52 pm

bobevenson wrote:Is doing evil a necessity of life? No.
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
-Revelation 17:17, a description of the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in chapter and verse.
Sounds pretty fucking evil to me.
Is that seven head with ten shared horns of does each head have ten each?

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:35 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:...
Was that really called for?
You're basically saying to know good one must do evil so yes, I think that psychotic. Not saying you personally are mind.
That is not really what I am saying.

I am saying that what we would see as evil, competition and the creating of a loser or victim, is an evil we must endure in order that we maintain the goal of evolution which is to seek the fittest and prevent us from going extinct.

It's degree of evil is overshadowed by the degree of good it creates. Somewhat like exercise, no pain, no gain.

Psychotic would be knowing we do evil, and enjoying it. I never suggested we enjoy it.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:36 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Even if you are a vegan you are eating something that some other creature could have eaten. Being alive is someone else's evil.
Indeed. Life feeds off of death. We enjoy our position at the top of the food chain.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:38 pm

bobevenson wrote:Is doing evil a necessity of life? No.
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
-Revelation 17:17, a description of the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in chapter and verse.
I take it you do not believe in evolution and it's major components of cooperation and competition. Right?

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DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:29 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:Even if you are a vegan you are eating something that some other creature could have eaten. Being alive is someone else's evil.
Indeed. Life feeds off of death. We enjoy our position at the top of the food chain.

Regards
DL
There are several species of bacteria that might like to disagree about who is at the top eh?

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by bobevenson » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
bobevenson wrote:Is doing evil a necessity of life? No.
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
-Revelation 17:17, a description of the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in chapter and verse.
Sounds pretty fucking evil to me.
Is that seven head with ten shared horns of does each head have ten each?
Additional details are in "The Ouzo Prophecy" http://church-of-ouzo.com/pdf/ouzo-prophecy.pdf.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by bobevenson » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:19 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
bobevenson wrote:Is doing evil a necessity of life? No.
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
-Revelation 17:17, a description of the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in chapter and verse.
I take it you do not believe in evolution and it's major components of cooperation and competition. Right?

Regards
DL
Evolution is a foregone conclusion, and churches and religions that deny this are led by false prophets.

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:51 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:Even if you are a vegan you are eating something that some other creature could have eaten. Being alive is someone else's evil.
Indeed. Life feeds off of death. We enjoy our position at the top of the food chain.

Regards
DL
There are several species of bacteria that might like to disagree about who is at the top eh?
We will deal with them when they show themselves.

Futurists think we will gain more control of such little problems over time. Not less.

Regards
DL

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Re: Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Post by Greatest I am » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:53 pm

bobevenson wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
bobevenson wrote:Is doing evil a necessity of life? No.
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
-Revelation 17:17, a description of the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns in chapter and verse.
I take it you do not believe in evolution and it's major components of cooperation and competition. Right?

Regards
DL
Evolution is a foregone conclusion, and churches and religions that deny this are led by false prophets.
Strange then that you do not seem to understand what I put.

Regards
DL

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