Immanuel Can wrote:
wtf wrote:Can you explain what you mean by entropy?
Oh, sorry...broadly speaking, it means the tendency of the world to move from a state of higher order to lower order...decay and decline, really. The idea is that the world is, so to speak, "running down," dissipating energy and creating disorder from order, not the other way around.
This is a very well-established scientific law...maybe the most secure scientific law we have. You can observe it in operation just by putting food colouring into water. In a few minutes, it will distribute equally, and all you'll have is pale blue or green or red water. Everything will be evenly distributed. Or you can observe it by leaving your fence unpainted for a year or two; is your fence better or worse afterward? You get the simple analogies, I'm sure. Order in the universe is running down in much the same manner; energy and order are dissipating. And they will continue to dissipate until we reach a final state in which all the energy in the universe is equally distributed (just like the food colouring in the water) -- a state called "heat death" -- and after that, nothing happens forever, because no particular of energy in the universe is anything but equally distributed relative to every other, so there's no further causality possible.
Why would God create a "world" for it to just decay, until nothing happens forever more?
And, how are you so sure that this is what is going to happen?
Could not, would not, God just create another Universe, or another anything or Everything?
You are aware that two elder, and thus decaying, human beings can create new human beings, just like elder and decaying exploding stars also, on their "heat death", can create new things? You do also realize that if and when two or more already existing, thus older, and therefore decaying and entropic things come together, then they create newer things? Do you also realize that this could happen forever or infinitely?
Immanuel Can wrote:
Suppose I take the set of integers ..., -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, ...
That's a discrete set. Suppose we say that each event is "caused" by the previous one. Then everything has a cause and there is an infinite regress.
In asking our question, we're looking at it backward, though. We're saying that before -3 there had to be a -4. But before a -4, there had to be a -5. And so on. But if the chain is infinite, there is no way for it to start. For "-infinity" isn't a real number: rather, it's a sort of conceptual placeholder, a declaration that a thing did not, in fact, have any start at all
Why do you persist with the idea that there having to
have been a start, in the beginning?
There is no thing in any literature that says that there WAS, nor that there HAD TO, have been a beginning.
There is a beginning
, but it is not in the sense that you are thinking of.
Just because human beings had a beginning it is not necessary to believe everything else must of also had a beginning. The Truth is if there HAD TO BE a before
, before human beings, then there is most likely a before
, before what is presumed to be "the beginning" of Everything. If every action causes a reaction
is true, then obviously there is an unbroken causal chain.
Immanuel Can wrote:Another way of saying this is that -6 never happened, because -7 couldn't happen until -8 happened, but -8 couldn't happen because -9 hadn't, and so on...backward to infinity. But "infinity" isn't a point, but rather a placeholder for the unending lack of a previous point.
But infinity is a point. The point at or of infinity is NOW.
Immanuel Can wrote: So none of the numbers in the sequence can ever happen at all, because their necessary prerequisites have never taken place either, because their necessary prerequisites never happened yet, and so on....to infinity.
But ALL of their necessary prerequisites HAVE taken place. If there is a number, which there is, then ALL of the necessary prerequisites must have already taken place, obviously.
Immanuel Can wrote:That's bad enough. But now, if we plug in entropy, and even if we assume entropy to have once been much slower than it is now (which we really have no reason to suppose, but won't change anything if we suppose it anyway) -- in fact, let's suppose that in olden times it was 1,000 or 1,000, 000 times slower than it is now -- IF infinity has passed already, with entropy of even the most minutely limited kind figured in, then we'd have reached "heat death" an infinite period of time ago.
Have you thought about, or even imagined, that creation, itself, could be infinite?
Immanuel Can wrote:Is that any clearer? I hope so. If not, feel free to ask me to try again.
If I ask you to "try again", what is it exactly that I am asking to try, and do, again?
Are you trying to argue that God created everything but everything will die, and after that nothing happens forever?
If you are, then you will have a LOT of explaining to do.