THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:58 am

seeds wrote:You are operating under the influence of the dubious assumptions established in what I call the “old paradigm” of ideas and thinking.

I do not believe that the Creator of this particular universe is without a beginning.

I personally believe that the Creator of this universe began in pretty much the same way that we began - in an ongoing process that no doubt extends as far back as eternity itself.
Thanks for your replies - I totally get what you are saying and have to say you've illustrated this well. I had a look at the links provided. What I see running through your ideas is not that different to how other Nondual thinkers put it.

To me though, it doesn't matter how much of a meal we make out of this..that everything is God. There is a much simpler way of putting it. In that there's just everything and nothing here right now. Now is all there is, now is eternity. There is only eternity appearing here right now.

Who created the knowing of that simple bold statement??

The only creator known is ''thought created'' .... thoughts in and of themselves are uncreated, they're just appearing here and now in this immediate aliveness of being... so that every time a thought appears ..so does creation in conjunction with the thought. Now we can also imagine the simple alive presence that's here now where no thought is appearing. That alive presence is what is without interpretation. That obvious ''what is'' is without a mind to create itself. The creation is born of mind therefore is a likened to a dream.

The reason I say eternity is appearing here right now is because this can only be known in it's appearance. If there was nothing showing on the screen of awareness then nothing is. What shows on the screen is inseparable from the screen therefore there's just nothing and everything appearing simultaneously....paradoxically, nothing is appearing, only the ''thoughts'' about it are appearing.

It is ''thought'' that cannot be fathomed or explained. Aliveness is simply this here right now without doubt or error which doesn't need to be explained or understood.

Thoughts create the thinker, the thinker creates the entity, the entity weaves itself a thought filled dream. All appearing out of nothing, returning to nothing. The nothing is the everything, and everything is nothing appearing now simultaneously. The background being the nothing - the forefront being the everything...but where or what is back&front but an unfathomable unexplainable conceptual thought appearing now in this otherwise blank innateness of alive presence.


seeds wrote:I am merely suggesting a “state of post-death existence” where we will each have an eternally evolving and “fruitful” purpose in which we are all individually capable of creating a universe out of the mental fabric of our very own being, just as the Creator of this universe has done.
My understanding of what is meant by ''post death existence'' is the second birth ... the first birth is the idea that we think we have been born, which is only a belief, ...but then out of that separation comes an innate knowing that knows there is no separation here at all.. so then another realisation dawns (knowing) that we have to die to that separation idea in order to get back to our original unborn Self...which is the real Self in which all life story dreams of ''me'' having myriad of adventures appear forever and ever ...That's how I understand it anyway...not sure if that's how you see it?

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:42 am

Walker wrote:
Bonobo - All In Forms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaBPueM ... pq&index=8
Loved the music...thanks. Not heard that before.

Have you heard this .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG5uqusY9Ds



Lyrics to SPiON ''Sunset'' song.

Come alive,
Watch it fade away
It's our final day
Now we're free and we will never see tomorrow
No more friend unfold
In the afterglow
With no reason to pretend we turn our face
The end

Born brand new
Now we rush
As the world
Is born brand new
Now we rush
As the world
Is reasoned to origin
Where we meet again
Nothing matters anymore
So let's be lovers
Let's be one of these
Let's be here
Let's be anything we can
Before the lights go out

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by seeds » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:07 pm

seeds wrote: And that (I believe) is how insignificant our present situation is compared to the transcendent situation that awaits us.
Lacewing wrote: Well I agree that our present "reality" is insignificant. What I'm saying is that I don't think there is a situation awaiting us.
Then you are promoting a form of nihilism and oblivion that basically has nothing to offer humanity other than “...enjoy it while it lasts...,” which seems a little cold and oblivious to the circumstances of, for example, this little girl...

Image

Perhaps we could all join in together and sing John Lennon’s song “Imagine” to her.
Lacewing wrote: I see what you're saying, and although I think the human mind has tremendously more potential than is being realized, I do not think the human mind has infinite potential, nor do I think it will lead us to our ultimate and eternal form -- not only because I don't think the human mind can do that, but also because I think there is NO ultimate and eternal form.
Again you offer your nihilism.

Obviously you believe in the eternal oblivion of the individual human consciousness, whereas I believe in the continuance and eternal life of the individual human consciousness.

I am not intending to sound melodramatic here, but we seem to be engaged in the perennial battle between darkness and light.

The contrast in our philosophical outlooks could not be more stark.
Lacewing wrote: To use your analogy... the human mind is an acorn that can grow into a mighty oak. That's it. That is its function and potential. Nothing more. When you link it to infinite potential, that sounds like human ego is involved (and perhaps wanting to insist on its significance).
Clearly you have not given much thought to what your mind can do.

Picture how “real” the holographic-like structures within your mind appear to be when you are immersed in a vivid dream.

When we dream we inwardly experience three-dimensional phenomena that, relative to our five inward senses, seem almost as real as the phenomena we experience outwardly.

Now just imagine the possibility of awakening to this inward domain of your mind in such a way that your own personal mental holography looks, feels, sounds, smells, and tastes completely real (again, what is “reality” but fields of energy and information that produce the “illusion” of solidity and separation).

Now all you have to do is to imagine that if you possessed total control over every aspect of this malleable, holographic-like essence and could willfully shape it into absolutely anything imaginable (something you can actually do right now),...

...then don’t you think that sometime within the context of eternity (trillions of years into the infinite future), you could achieve what the Creator of this universe has achieved?

I know it sounds fanciful, but that (in a nut shell) is what I mean by the “infinite potential” of the human mind.
Lacewing wrote: Why not consider that these human "containers", which include these human "minds", are just for the potential of this reality and this vibration.
Because I believe that “this reality” (God’s mind) and these “containers” (God’s placental-like encasements) have been specifically designed to awaken us into existence for a greater purpose (i.e., to individuate our mind out of the “oneness substance” and establish it as another “bubble” in the “multidimensional foam” mentioned earlier).
seeds wrote: the “oneness” that you are describing above, to me, seems to spell oblivion for our individual being and personal self-awareness.
Lacewing wrote: Well, here's what I can say... There is nothing wrong with completeness. Separation is of the "physical" realm of forms. And humans like to think that their separateness is special.
When you use the word “completeness,” or when Dam uses the word “oneness,” I see them both as titles of a book, yet when I open the book, the pages are blank.

They are words used to evoke a sense of something profound being stated when, in fact, absolutely nothing is being stated (just smoke and mirrors).
seeds wrote: You and Dam are positing the very antithesis to the reason and effort that went into waking us into existence in the first place.
Lacewing wrote: I don't think there was a reason and effort. It's all just free-flowing artwork.
“Artwork” implies the existence of an “artist.” And anyone who suggests that this...

Image

...is simply “free-flowing artwork” (as in “accidently” created itself) is demonstrating just how much they are under the “thrall” of the “Artist’s” direct intent to make it “seem” that way.
_______

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Lacewing » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:12 pm

seeds wrote:you are promoting a form of nihilism and oblivion that basically has nothing to offer humanity other than “...enjoy it while it lasts...,” which seems a little cold and oblivious to the circumstances of, for example, this little girl...
I once heard a story of Mother Teresa walking by a dead dog, and she stopped and expressed joy as she exclaimed, "Life!" In my experience, there is a way of looking at life that is full of love IN ALL OF ITS MANIFESTATIONS, no matter how horrific and dramatic it might look. You are certainly welcome to take it all very seriously and believe all of it as you will. And you may not understand how some don't see it the same way, while they somehow still have great love and appreciation for it. For some, the glory of it all is within each moment. There is no need to lament about what is not... and there is no need to make up stories about what might come that is BETTER.

I actually think that looking ahead to what you imagine is "better", is not respectful and loving of the beloved that is standing right before you. What do you think about that?
seeds wrote:I am not intending to sound melodramatic here, but we seem to be engaged in the perennial battle between darkness and light.
And you think yours is light and mine is darkness, yes? I find it surprising that you cannot even apparently grasp the beauty of what I am talking about. Whatever energy does beyond this manifestation, doesn't matter. It is probably so far beyond our current models and understanding of what can be. There could be so many different vibrations interacting. It doesn't make sense to me to try to model that on our current perspectives. WE KNOW NOTHING!

If it brings comfort and meaning to someone to "dream a dream" of how it might be... great! But I don't think it's very open-minded to fail to see the light in other perspectives. That just seems to show how fixated you are on your vision... and fixation cannot be natural/organic/truthful.
seeds wrote:Picture how “real” the holographic-like structures within your mind appear to be when you are immersed in a vivid dream.
Yes, I know... I have fantastic dreams... of flying around planets, and over ruins, and out-maneuvering other life forms who seek to mess with me, and I awaken out-of-breath... and still I consider everything in my mind to be limited by my human manifestation. I have had spontaneous experiences (while awake) of feeling like spirit WITHOUT the mind or ego, and they are AMAZING! The mind goes quiet... and there is NOTHING but beautiful, connected spirit. I see that everything is FINE, and none of this matters as we think it does! To believe it is not fine is due to intoxication with this realm. That's my impression.

I realize you may not agree, but can you at least consider that this is a potential for some?
seeds wrote:When you use the word “completeness,” or when Dam uses the word “oneness,” I see them both as titles of a book, yet when I open the book, the pages are blank.
That's because you want there to be something familiar/knowable there. Perhaps it scares you that you cannot see anything. You are filling it. And that's fine. I'm saying that I don't need to fill it... and it feels fine to me! Blissfully, beautifully, wonderfully FINE!
seeds wrote:They are words used to evoke a sense of something profound being stated when, in fact, absolutely nothing is being stated (just smoke and mirrors).
It is not smoke and mirrors. You are the one creating stuff to fill up the future. THAT would be more smoke and mirrors than not doing so.
seeds wrote:“Artwork” implies the existence of an “artist.” /... “free-flowing artwork” (as in “accidently” created itself) is demonstrating just how much they are under the “thrall” of the “Artist’s” direct intent to make it “seem” that way.
I can say that the artwork is the artist, as the artist is the artwork: they are one and the same. There is no separation. You believe there is a separate artist creating the artwork, and creating future situations, and awakening us to some greater potential.

I don't think it matters which set of ideas a person holds because it does not determine a person's ability to be aware and loving and productive and happy and spiritual. Theists might want to believe that it matters... and that someone expressing ideas as I do, must be floating in oblivion, but nothing could be further from the truth. I am engaged and plugged in and playing fully and loving and offering humanity more than you can likely fathom possible of me! So I think this is a matter of the kind-of-potential you are unable to see in alternative perspectives, because you are focused on a certain idea of potential.

Wouldn't infinite potential spread out in all directions and truly include all?

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by sthitapragya » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:53 am

seeds wrote: Then you are promoting a form of nihilism and oblivion that basically has nothing to offer humanity other than “...enjoy it while it lasts...,” which seems a little cold and oblivious to the circumstances of, for example, this little girl...
What will your transcendental state do for the little girl which you cannot do now? You put up her picture. What do you plan to do about her right now? If you cannot do anything for her right now, how will you in your transcendental state be able to help her?

If you are doing something to help her or her kind, why would you assume that a person who believes in "enjoy it while it lasts ..." is not doing anything for people like her?

Why would you assume "enjoy it while it lasts...." translates to "don't help or care for others"?

Why would you assume it does not translate to "enjoy it while it lasts and help others enjoy it while it lasts too"?

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:03 am

seeds wrote: Then you are promoting a form of nihilism and oblivion that basically has nothing to offer humanity other than “...enjoy it while it lasts...,” which seems a little cold and oblivious to the circumstances of, for example, this little girl...

Image
Seriously Seeds, you are totally clueless.

That girl in the picture is LIFE HAPPENING..... it's not happening to her, it's happening to life, and is why nothing ever happens...meaning nothing happens to a personal SELF, ...there is no personal self except a fictional story the mind weaves for itself...which is suffering. Where there's a separate SELF there's one who suffers.

The story of the little girl and the vulture imaged is how LIFE plays out. There's no choice about it or way to stop it. It's just the way it is, it could not have been any other way.


You continue to use words such as nihilism and oblivion that don't have any actual reality except an objective meaning given by the fictional sense of separate self.

You have misunderstood the concept of ONENESS....it works in polarity...it is not one sided where everything is out of balance.

I'm with Lacewing on this subject, she understands the bigger picture whereas you live in separation wanting to fix that which can never be broken.

You are not alone in your misguided thinking, there are many of you with your kind of distorted view of reality and how you believe it should work.But believe me, it does not work the way you hope it should. It works how it works and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you fail to understand that LIFE is not happening to that little girl in the image then you are hopelessly lost in the dream of suffering and separation...sorry to be so graphic.

Image

Are you going to shed a tear for the giraffe as well??

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:01 am

seeds wrote: “Artwork” implies the existence of an “artist.”
And ''seeing'' implies the existence of a ''seer''. Is the seeing separate from the seen? no, it's all one undivided reality....APPEARING as if there is a seer separate from the seen....but that knowledge of OPPOSITES is how creation is born, creation is born of the knowledge known - it's a fictional mental creation, it is the dual nature of mind that divides reality into seer(unknown) and seen (known).... the mind is an appearance in wholeness not some thing outside of wholeness looking back at itself...it's within itself. The mind is the play of opposites...the mind is a two sided mirror...one side is fiction the other is real, both are the same one simultaneous...they are both, yet neither.

Artwork is nothing without a blank canvas upon which it can show, both the canvas(inactive)(nondual) and the picture(active)(dual) are each other one and the same inseparable. The blank canvas (imagination) must be first and foremost...it is that on which every dream is painted....dreams come and go, fade and falter, while the canvas is ever untouched by what appears on it..we are the canvas on which we paint our dreams, we identify with the dream as if that is the true reality, but a dream is not true reality, it's just a fleeting appearance in it. There is no one in true reality, it's a blank canvas...the picture only arises when mind is active.

seeds wrote:...is simply “free-flowing artwork” (as in “accidently” created itself) is demonstrating just how much they are under the “thrall” of the “Artist’s” direct intent to make it “seem” that way.
_______
Behind every image is a blank canvas. Art is natural...the nature of the art is artificial meaning the knowing of the art is not the art.
The art is without any thought about it...therefore always prior to the fictional knowing of the art.
Intention is the rider of the will.

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:33 am

seeds wrote:
Obviously you believe in the eternal oblivion of the individual human consciousness, whereas I believe in the continuance and eternal life of the individual human consciousness.
There is no individual ''human'' consciousness. No ''thing'' is conscious.

Where does ''my'' individual consciousness end) and ''yours'' start)? ...you cannot explain or show that, so what you are talking about is pure make-belief, fantasy and wishful thinking, pure imagination at best.

You know nothing about the you that you imagine you are, and neither do I...what you are talking about is an artificial programme running through you that you yourself or others have planted in you...you have created yourself...LIFE DIDN'T CREATE YOU...life is unborn...only mind is born, like a dream appearing and disappearing in the unborn nothingness of boundless empty space...free to be, free to come and go, without leaving a trace. Any trace is a memory. ALIVENESS IS LIVING NOW in the eternal one way flow....memory is ALWAYS PAST... aka dead.

The idea that you are an individual consciousness appears to you as a ''thought'' ...and you have taken that on as your personal identity, but it's just a thought appearing in you...any attempt to communicate ''thoughts''...is pure imagination.
Life is fundamentally TACIT .....life does not communicate in order to be or know itself, it just IS ...communication is a false persona superimposed upon ''WHAT IS''..

LIFE IS FUNDAMENTALLY IMPERSONAL....the personal is an ''appearance'' in it.

The mind cannot deal with that and is always looking for more...there's always more as far as the imagination goes... That's the sickness of the human mind.

seeds wrote:Perhaps we could all join in together and sing John Lennon’s song “Imagine” to her.
Life is not imagined. LIFE IS. To know ''life is''... THAT'S imagination...for who or what else would know LIFE??

That's the message in the John Lennon song. That life is basically a dream...dreamt by no one.

The mind wants peace ..,wanting or desire creates the opposite. To want peace is to create war. Stop wanting and believing, and see that all that's left is what you already are and have always been...JUST THIS NOW

The book you have written is just one of many stories humans write about the understanding of their self and the reality in which they believe to exist. It's pure make-belief, and can never be what reality is...because reality is totally unknowable.

No doubt you will attempt to refute my story in favor of your own but will make no difference to LIFE...LIFE does not take any position. Only mind does that.

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Dontaskme » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:42 am

seeds wrote: Clearly you have not given much thought to what your mind can do.

Picture how “real” the holographic-like structures within your mind appear to be when you are immersed in a vivid dream.

When we dream we inwardly experience three-dimensional phenomena that, relative to our five inward senses, seem almost as real as the phenomena we experience outwardly.

Now just imagine the possibility of awakening to this inward domain of your mind in such a way that your own personal mental holography looks, feels, sounds, smells, and tastes completely real (again, what is “reality” but fields of energy and information that produce the “illusion” of solidity and separation).

Now all you have to do is to imagine that if you possessed total control over every aspect of this malleable, holographic-like essence and could willfully shape it into absolutely anything imaginable (something you can actually do right now),...

...then don’t you think that sometime within the context of eternity (trillions of years into the infinite future), you could achieve what the Creator of this universe has achieved?

I know it sounds fanciful, but that (in a nut shell) is what I mean by the “infinite potential” of the human mind.
There is “infinite potential” but is doesn't belong to the human mind..the human mind is a temporal ''experience'' of ''infinite potential'' appearing and disappearing for a nano second in comparison ....appearing and leaving without a trace.

The Self cannot recreate itself for one very good reason...go figure! The individual mind has no control over life...although it can imagine it can, but that's the confusion, whereas the life living itself is never confused. The human mind can build artificial works of art but is can never build a universe from scratch that you appear to be suggesting, so good luck with that gigantic wish.

We can drop our sense of separate self and let the natural flow of life for no one flow unhindered without judgement or preference. But we cannot control what happens in the natural flow no more than we can control the moment of our bodily death. What you imagine you can control has no more substance than a character in the SIMS computer game. These characters appear to be clever at what they do, but the truth is they're not actually doing anything...except appearing to look clever at what they do... All the ''done'' aka appearances...will eventually fade and rot away to nothingness. No one knows if appearances will return or not...simply because there is no one around here long enough to witness eternal infinite possibility to say yeah that's definitely ''me'' ''this one here'' making that happen... If you know of someone who can witness the infinite possibility of life eternally happening... then please physically show me who that one is? otherwise you are talking absolute nonsense...which is generally what all humans do anyway... including me.

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by seeds » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:23 am

sthitapragya wrote: What will your transcendental state do for the little girl which you cannot do now? You put up her picture. What do you plan to do about her right now?
Well, the first thing I would do for her and others like her is to not promote a philosophy that suggests that not only was the three or four years of her (no doubt) miserable little life meaningless, but that’s all there is for her.

Furthermore, I would not hold that little girl in my arms and tell her not to worry, because the horrendous situation she is experiencing is not actually happening to her, it is just “life happening” (as stated by Dam).

(Good gawd almighty, the word “ridiculous” simply cannot rise to meet the level of such nonsense.)

And just to be clear in my intent, I am not offering that image as some kind of flippant response to Lacewing’s or Dam’s beliefs. Indeed, in spite of my protestations, I respect them and the spiritual direction they are coming from.

I am merely using it to call attention to the idea that whatever philosophical narrative we create to explain our existence, it needs to be a universally applicable narrative that we can unflinchingly whisper into the ears of the earth's most destitute and downtrodden humans.

It must be a narrative that not only imparts love and hope, but also an implicit “promise” to everyone that life holds a truly meaningful purpose for us despite how wretched it might be at any given moment.

And the point is that if you cannot say to that little child at her darkest moment...

“this isn’t really happening to you, it is just life happening

...without a deep sense of how stunningly absurd that would be, then it is an extremely “limited” narrative.

It is a narrative that will only resonate with someone who apparently believes that a human is no more significant than a giraffe, or a chicken, or a fly (as Dam has implied of himself).

And the ultimate point is that anyone who believes that the vast majority of humans on earth would actually welcome and accept the narrative that Dam is proposing...

(which in essence, is just a rehashing of the Advaita school of thought in Hinduism)

...are deluding themselves.
_______

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by sthitapragya » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:58 am

seeds wrote:
sthitapragya wrote: What will your transcendental state do for the little girl which you cannot do now? You put up her picture. What do you plan to do about her right now?
Well, the first thing I would do for her and others like her is to not promote a philosophy that suggests that not only was the three or four years of her (no doubt) miserable little life meaningless, but that’s all there is for her.

Furthermore, I would not hold that little girl in my arms and tell her not to worry, because the horrendous situation she is experiencing is not actually happening to her, it is just “life happening” (as stated by Dam).

(Good gawd almighty, the word “ridiculous” simply cannot rise to meet the level of such nonsense.)

And just to be clear in my intent, I am not offering that image as some kind of flippant response to Lacewing’s or Dam’s beliefs. Indeed, in spite of my protestations, I respect them and the spiritual direction they are coming from.

I am merely using it to call attention to the idea that whatever philosophical narrative we create to explain our existence, it needs to be a universally applicable narrative that we can unflinchingly whisper into the ears of the earth's most destitute and downtrodden humans.

It must be a narrative that not only imparts love and hope, but also an implicit “promise” to everyone that life holds a truly meaningful purpose for us despite how wretched it might be at any given moment.

And the point is that if you cannot say to that little child at her darkest moment...

“this isn’t really happening to you, it is just life happening

...without a deep sense of how stunningly absurd that would be, then it is an extremely “limited” narrative.

It is a narrative that will only resonate with someone who apparently believes that a human is no more significant than a giraffe, or a chicken, or a fly (as Dam has implied of himself).

And the ultimate point is that anyone who believes that the vast majority of humans on earth would actually welcome and accept the narrative that Dam is proposing...

(which in essence, is just a rehashing of the Advaita school of thought in Hinduism)

...are deluding themselves.
_______
And why would you assume that an atheist would not do the same thing to the girl that you did? Why would you assume that an atheist would go to her and tell her that her life is meaningless? Why would you assume anyone would be that callous or stupid? Why would you assume that we don't understand that this is life happening?

You have simply pointed out what you would not do for her. You still haven't said anything about how your transcendental state would help her.

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Lacewing » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:45 pm

seeds wrote:
sthitapragya wrote: What will your transcendental state do for the little girl which you cannot do now? You put up her picture. What do you plan to do about her right now?
Well, the first thing I would do for her and others like her is to not promote a philosophy that suggests that not only was the three or four years of her (no doubt) miserable little life meaningless, but that’s all there is for her.
Can you see the difference between expressing philosophies on an online forum, and "promoting" such ideas in every encounter/interaction no matter how inappropriate or unhelpful? That little girl doesn't need ideas and stories whispered to her. She's living and dying in the moment. And the best thing in the moment is love.

She is connected to all-that-is just like everything else. She doesn't need someone else's manmade stories.
seeds wrote:whatever philosophical narrative we create to explain our existence, it needs to be a universally applicable narrative that we can unflinchingly whisper into the ears of the earth's most destitute and downtrodden humans.
So we must create it that way because that's how we're going to use it? I'm not seeing how that is ultimately true or helpful. Is this not how and why stories are made-up and followed blindly?
seeds wrote:It must be a narrative that not only imparts love and hope, but also an implicit “promise” to everyone that life holds a truly meaningful purpose for us despite how wretched it might be at any given moment.
Why do we need to tell people stories like this, with fanciful and unknowable promises? Aren't there other, more effective ways of imparting love and hope? Aren't we ultimately wanting more clarity and truth? Are we not capable of coping or evolving with clarity and truth? Are we not capable of accepting and loving life as it is for whatever it is?
seeds wrote:it is an extremely “limited” narrative.
Are you suggesting that value is measured by how many angles a story can cover... and how many questions it can seemingly answer?

Although stories can give people ideas to cling to or be comforted by, such stories can be born from fear and can stunt people too -- making people unable and unwilling to look beyond the stories. Ultimately, people can choose to do it however they want... and I don't think it matters. Nature will take its course regardless, and I doubt that spirit is encumbered by any of it.

I think everyone has the natural built-in ability to set their ego aside and "look within" –- moving beyond fear into love -- for their own greater clarity. I do not believe there is a singular knowable answer/understanding/story for everyone. Isn't it more realistic to inspire and support the best awareness and love in each person, in whatever way suits them, without any requirement for them to adopt a specific way of thinking or believing? Surely there is not only ONE path to love -- because that would seem very deficient in representing the unlimited potential that must surely exist.

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by thedoc » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:17 pm

seeds wrote:Artwork” implies the existence of an “artist.
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This is a human perspective, but there is no reason to expect that the Universe behaves according to human expectations.

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Dontaskme
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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:30 pm

seeds wrote:And the ultimate point is that anyone who believes that the vast majority of humans on earth would actually welcome and accept the narrative that Dam is proposing...
All narrative about life/reality is fiction. It's arrogance to suggest human language aka knowledge is what actually constitutes reality.
Real Reality is tacit....language/communication in the form of words is sound appearing and disappearing in pure silence/nothingness. Therefore any meaning attached to the narrative has no actual source or authority.
seeds wrote:(which in essence, is just a rehashing of the Advaita school of thought in Hinduism)
Advaita is a timeless ageless universal truth pointing to the obvious fact that there is no final truth that can be known. Not knowing is the only truth.

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Re: THE RELIGIONS – THEIR FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE

Post by seeds » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:23 am

seeds wrote:Artwork” implies the existence of an “artist.
thedoc wrote: This is a human perspective, but there is no reason to expect that the Universe behaves according to human expectations.
And there is no reason to believe that it doesn't either.

For example, it is a completely reasonable “human expectation” to assume that the unthinkable order implicit in our earth/sun system didn't just come into existence by sheer chance.
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