Greta wrote:What happens is that researchers methodically build upon the body of knowledge piece by piece. Vertical thinking.
Reflex wrote:I wish I can remember where I read it and whether it was a scientist or a philosopher of science who wrote it, but this idea of science was described as a sanitized, romanticized and photoshopped image of the way science really works.
Of course there's politics, ideologies and whatnot. I obviously provided a simply sketchy overview. If you want to "colour in the sketch", be my guest. Nonetheless, sans inspiration - which, by definition is relatively rare - all one can do is build on one's knowledge in a methodical way. There's no choice - you can't put on a roof until the walls on which it's to be placed are built.
I don't worry much about old philosophers.
Reflex wrote:Maybe you should. Those "old philosophers" as you call them are relatively recent and still have a huge and negative influence on modern society. The world is still reeling from the influence of the logical positivism that grew out of them in spite of it being thoroughly discredited.
I suggest you spend more time reading up on biology, geology, chemistry, physics and cosmology and less mythology.
Logical positivism is an excellent example of why I don't much bother with philosophers from earlier eras. The lesson was learned - that bottom-up analysis is extremely powerful. We don't need the pointless extra baggage of ontology claims that reductionism explains all, as though emergent synergistic systems didn't exist.
Yes, in historical terms they are quite recent, but not in terms of historical learning due to the exponential growth of human knowledge in recent decades. So much that we fairly held to be true has been proven wrong, time and time again. It's quite a job for an older person to keep up with all the old beliefs we had that have been shown to wrong.
Reflex wrote:No one here said reason isn't vital.
Thread title = Futility of Reason. I refute that reason is futile. Simple.
Reflex wrote:What Nick and I are saying (correct me if I'm wrong, Nick), is that facts are relatively stable, but life is fluid, dynamic and indefinite. Science deals with facts while religion is concerned only with values. Through philosophy, the mind endeavors to unite the meanings of both facts and values, thereby arriving at a concept of complete reality. Or at least it should. That door has been effectively closed by -- you guessed it-- reason without religion.
Again, you need to study science before criticising because you reveal a basic misunderstanding of what science is. The idea that science "deals with facts", "facts are stable" and "life is dynamic, fluid and indefinite" has a problem - "facts" are far from stable. Science studies reality - and reality includes "dynamic, fluid and indefinite" life, and the body of knowledge is constantly corrected and updated. The very point of science is to study those dynamic and fluid qualities. Definitions and labels are devised, not to cruelly imprison free-living noumena in tight memetic boxes, but just so peers can readily communicate.
Science is not a tribe lined up against tribal religion, as theist tend to make out. Science is just the human enterprise of learning more about how reality works. It's not there to tell us what reality is. There appears to be frequent confusion between the job of science commentary and research work. Educators sometimes line up against religion when the latter goes too far but research work is just concerned with the subject matter (and, typically, tight budgets and timeframes).
Yes, educators must present "static" facts in any given lesson but, by next lesson, there may be a new discovery, so a new "static" lesson is prepared. Science is far from static, and the daily additions to our learning are too much to keep up with.