Philosophy Now Forum

Hobbes wrote:

This is an example of EXACTLY what I mean when I described spirituality thus;"What good to me is the concept of "spirituality" that inward looking, mean, satisfied, limiting abstraction?"

What an arrogant overbearing self satisfied twat!!1

I would agree with you that this idea that "I am God. is pure fantasy based on escapism. But impartial conscious attempts to "know thyself" or receive the experience of oneself is not the same as modern introspection or analysis which just serves the purpose of self justification defeating the purpose of the philosopher's call to wisdom. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater only makes things worse. How to find the baby within all this self deception is a very difficult problem. Only a rare few are capable of the will, consciousness, and humility necessary to satisfy what the depth of ones being craves. Imagination is a strong opponent.

Nick_A wrote:Hobbes wrote:

This is an example of EXACTLY what I mean when I described spirituality thus;"What good to me is the concept of "spirituality" that inward looking, mean, satisfied, limiting abstraction?"

What an arrogant overbearing self satisfied twat!!1

I would agree with you that this idea that "I am God. is pure fantasy based on escapism. But impartial conscious attempts to "know thyself" or receive the experience of oneself is not the same as modern introspection or analysis which just serves the purpose of self justification defeating the purpose of the philosopher's call to wisdom. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater only makes things worse. How to find the baby within all this self deception is a very difficult problem. Only a rare few are capable of the will, consciousness, and humility necessary to satisfy what the depth of ones being craves. Imagination is a strong opponent.

I think you have imagined a baby which is simply not there.
What I see between you and "dontaskme" is two people banging their heads on the wall. One obsessed by an Idol of the Theatre and the other obsessed by an Idol of the Cave. You both blindly deny the other's fallacy, but are too self-obsessed to consider the possibility that both of youa re blind of the other's creed as there is nothing to see here; just phantoms of your own reflected fantasies.

Nick_A wrote:Hobbes wrote:

This is an example of EXACTLY what I mean when I described spirituality thus;"What good to me is the concept of "spirituality" that inward looking, mean, satisfied, limiting abstraction?"

What an arrogant overbearing self satisfied twat!!1

I would agree with you that this idea that "I am God. is pure fantasy based on escapism. But impartial conscious attempts to "know thyself" or receive the experience of oneself is not the same as modern introspection or analysis which just serves the purpose of self justification defeating the purpose of the philosopher's call to wisdom. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater only makes things worse. How to find the baby within all this self deception is a very difficult problem. Only a rare few are capable of the will, consciousness, and humility necessary to satisfy what the depth of ones being craves. Imagination is a strong opponent.

Hahahahahaha. This is just too funny and ironic for words. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

sthit wrote: Hahahahahaha.

This is just too funny and ironic for words. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

You are yet to experience that blind denial will never satisfy the objective human need for meaning. People try to deny all the time through alcohol and drug addiction for example but it doesn't work until blind denial is seen for what it is.

sthitapragya wrote: Hahahahahaha. This is just too funny and ironic for words. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Exactly!!!

Nick_A wrote: blind denial blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial ..

Yawn!!!

sthitapragya wrote: You have a lot of excuses but the fact is that the only way to experience oneness is to try it in all the extreme conditions of life. You are mouthing proclamations without any authority. You have not shown any ability of messiah or made one of your illusions disappear or in any way shown that your theory is true.

Oneness is not an experience, there is no one to experience oneness. Oneness is one without a second. And this is it.

It can't be an experience, that would require an experiencer where there isn't one. Just as there is no thinker, there is only thought appearing and disappearing from no thing.

Oneness cannot be experienced, IT is the experiencing appearing and disappearing TO ITSELF ALONE.... No thing is doing this.

Appearances of oneness in oneness are spontaneous / automatic/ without authority /without mind. The body/mind character is an appearance in oneness, it is oneness embodied, it's an experience appearing in it...experiences come and go....oneness doesn't, oneness is unchanging ever present.Oneness is infinity expressing itself infinitely in finite ways. Infinity cannot be an experience.

So then you said ....''the fact is that the only way to experience oneness is to try it in all the extreme conditions of life''

You confuse me, because if everything is already this oneness right here and now appearing as and through every single mind/body mechanisms.. who is the other one that is going to experience the experience of oneness experiencing itself already?


sthitapragya you are a very confused ball of confusion when it comes to understanding the concept of oneness. Me thinks you are over thinking this too much.

[quote="Dontaskme"
You confuse me, because if everything is already this oneness right here and now appearing as and through every single mind/body mechanisms.. who is the other one that is going to experience the experience of oneness experiencing itself already?[/quote]

Hobbes wrote:

blind denial blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial .blind denial ..

Thank God! Finally he gets it and wants to shout it from the rooftops. Well, better late than never.

Dontaskme wrote:

sthitapragya wrote: You have a lot of excuses but the fact is that the only way to experience oneness is to try it in all the extreme conditions of life. You are mouthing proclamations without any authority. You have not shown any ability of messiah or made one of your illusions disappear or in any way shown that your theory is true.

Oneness is not an experience, there is no one to experience oneness. Oneness is one without a second. And this is it.

It can't be an experience, that would require an experiencer where there isn't one. Just as there is no thinker, there is only thought appearing and disappearing from no thing.

Oneness cannot be experienced, IT is the experiencing appearing and disappearing TO ITSELF ALONE.... No thing is doing this.

Appearances of oneness in oneness are spontaneous / automatic/ without authority /without mind. The body/mind character is an appearance in oneness, it is oneness embodied, it's an experience appearing in it...experiences come and go....oneness doesn't, oneness is unchanging ever present.Oneness is infinity expressing itself infinitely in finite ways. Infinity cannot be an experience.

So then you said ....''the fact is that the only way to experience oneness is to try it in all the extreme conditions of life''

You confuse me, because if everything is already this oneness right here and now appearing as and through every single mind/body mechanisms.. who is the other one that is going to experience the experience of oneness experiencing itself already?


sthitapragya you are a very confused ball of confusion when it comes to understanding the concept of oneness. Me thinks you are over thinking this too much.

I am not at all confused. You definitely are because you want to win this argument against you.

sthitapragya wrote:
I am not at all confused. You definitely are because you want to win this argument against you.

The sole purpose of any argument is to win over the opposition to your side. It's ain't gonna happen!

I don't take sides, I have no argument with myself. No one wins an argument. Meaning, only oneness wins

Dontaskme wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:
I am not at all confused. You definitely are because you want to win this argument against you.

The sole purpose of any argument is to win over the opposition to your side. It's ain't gonna happen!

I don't take sides, I have no argument with myself. No one wins an argument. Meaning, only oneness wins

Then why are you still trying to make a point? who are you making it to?

Dontaskme wrote: There is only consciousness, and everything happens, arises in consciousness which is not a thing, therefore there is nothing outside of consciousness either.

Just because consciousness may not be a (physical) thing, that, in of itself, does NOT mean that there is nothing outside of consciousness. Your attempt at an argument is not sound.

Dontaskme wrote:ISIS is just an experience of consciousness. I know this doesn't sound pretty but nothing happens unless it is meant to happen. ISIS is happening because consciousness is choosing that experience for what ever reason, else it wouldn't be happening.

Do you know what that reason is? Your, "for what ever reason" words implies that you do not.
If you do not know the reason, then how do you know that there is a reason?

I agree that everything happens for a purpose and that there is a reason for what is happening with isis, but I know what the reason is.

If, and when, you are able to see what the reason is for everything that happens, only then will you be sure everything happens for a reason.

Dontaskme wrote: One thing we can be absolutely certain of right now is some thing is aware of life that never dies. And we are THAT...But we don't know what that is.

Speak for you only.

I, for one, know what THAT is.

Dontaskme wrote:THE PROBLEM LIES IN THE FACT THAT MOST PEOPLE JUST DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ACTUAL MEANING OF THE WORD LOVE IS

Does yelling this sentence out mean that you know what the actual meaning of the word 'love' is? If so, please enlighten us.

Dontaskme wrote:
The problems in the world are due to the wrong identification with self. When life is taken personally, there is suffering.

Animals are brutally killed by other animals all the time, but they do not suffer because there is no self in an animal.

The self in a human is known as the ego. Ego knows it is an illusion but will fight tooth and nail to protect itself, just like an animal, we're not that different to an animal except to say we know we are going to die....without ever realising that nothing can die because nothing was born. And that all there is ...is just this boundless formless emptiness expressing itself freely forever appearing as every form.

The beauty of having no self is the freedom of knowing although there is a happening it's not happening to you personally.... knowing this is the ultimate freedom for me, knowing that I am just one of an infinite amount of experiences of the one true self.

And that no amount of hate can destroy love just as no amount of darkness can put out the light.

Dark cannot enter light. Light can enter darkness, but darkness cannot enter light.

You sound like you are nearing the final answer point, but not actually knowing how you got here.

There is still some confusion in your words. For example, "And that all there is ...is just this boundless formless emptiness expressing itself freely forever appearing as every form." And, "The beauty of have no self..."

You can not say 'It', all there is is expressing 'Its' self and also say the beauty of having no self, without this sounding terribly confusing.

Can you explain/word this better?

How can an "it" also be a nothing?

It is either nothing or a thing, right?

Dontaskme wrote:
F E A R

False

Emotion

Appearing

Real

If emotion or internal feeling is real, and fear is just one of the 450 or so emotions or internal feelings that human beings have, then fear is a real emotion.

If fear (of anything) is justified is another question.

Dontaskme wrote:I know this is not very pleasant to hear but it's the truth....no one want's to hear the truth....the truth does not want to be known.

I think every person wants to hear, or is looking for, truth, unless of course that truth goes against what they believe is true.

The truth that most people also tend to not want to hear is the truth about what they themselves do wrong.

Dontaskme wrote:Self identification is the misery self a prison of your own making.

Non identification with self is total unbound freedom.

Your words appear confusing again. I know what you are trying to say but you need more understanding of what you are trying to write. You imply there is no self but then you write non identification with "self"...

What "self" are you talking about now?

You also said, "... of your own making."

Who or what is this "your"?