Why atheists compare God to santa

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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sthitapragya
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Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by sthitapragya »

I think this clarification is overdue. You have to realize that when we compare God to santa we are not claiming they are both the same thing. We understand the concept of God, the all pervading consciousness, the Brahman, the consciousness that is so complete that even if you remove consciousness from Consciousness, what remains is Consciousness. We know God is unknowable. Most of us understand and know the concept of God as the unknown and unknowable. We know God is supposed to transcend time and space and that he is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.so we know that there is no comparison between God and Santa who live lives on the north pole and delivers gifts to kids.

When we refer to santa, we are simply trying to impress upon Theists that our ABSENCE OF BELIEF IN GOD AND SANTA IS THE SAME AS YOUR ABSENCE OF BELIEF IN SANTA. Now whether our absence of belief is right or wrong, is up for debate. You might not like the fact that our absence of belief in God is the same as our absence of belief in santa even though there is no comparison between the two. You might be right in believing in God and we might be wrong in our absence of belief. But the fact is that our absence of belief in God is as complete as your absence of belief in santa. This fact is NOT open for discussion.

For you to understand our absence of belief in God, the santa reference is made. There is no other way to get this point through to you. No disrespect is meant to the concept of God. We understand that the two cannot be compared. But OUR ABSENCE OF BELIEF IN BOTH IS THE SAME. That is the only common point.

I hope this explanation is satisfactory so that some Theists can get off our backs and try to explain to us what we believe. We don't. Period.
Walker
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Walker »

In comparing this to that they see that thee may not be we.
sthitapragya wrote:Not all atheists are alike just as not all Theists are alike.”
sthitapragya
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by sthitapragya »

Walker wrote:In comparing this to that they see that thee may not be we.
sthitapragya wrote:Not all atheists are alike just as not all Theists are alike.”
What are you trying to say, little chihuahua? You want to be so graceless as to argue over an explanation? Why not just try to understand where we are coming from for once.?
Walker
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Walker »

sthitapragya wrote:
Walker wrote:In comparing this to that they see that thee may not be we.
sthitapragya wrote:Not all atheists are alike just as not all Theists are alike.”
What are you trying to say, little chihuahua? You want to be so graceless as to argue over an explanation? Why not just try to understand where we are coming from for once.?
Three rhetorical questions do not equal either a question, an answer, or more attention.

Buh bye.
sthitapragya
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by sthitapragya »

Walker wrote: Three rhetorical questions do not equal either a question, an answer, or more attention.

Buh bye.
Like I said. Graceless, classless and immature.
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Lacewing
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Lacewing »

sthitapragya... good explanation.

I think those who don't "get this", cannot allow themselves to get it, as it reveals/suggests too much that would challenge their platform. Why else do theists never engage in discussions to question themselves and their beliefs? They only come to defend their claims and try to invalidate others. There have only been a few times online, I've seen a theist (with courage and insight) say to a non-theist: "That is an excellent question... and I don't have the answer... I choose to look at it (or explain it) "like this" for myself." Now THAT is an intriguing discussion... because that must surely be what we all are truly doing. When we all come down to earth on the same playing field to fully question why we think what we think, that's how boundaries and understanding can be expanded for those who truly WANT to become aware of more.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Walker wrote:In comparing this to that they see that thee may not be we.
sthitapragya wrote:Not all atheists are alike just as not all Theists are alike.”
And yet all theists have one thing in common. They all believe in what they call God. The problem is what is God.

And all atheists are alike in that they have no belief in anything they call "god".

Aside from those two things differences are present.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

sthitapragya wrote:
Walker wrote: Three rhetorical questions do not equal either a question, an answer, or more attention.

Buh bye.
Like I said. Graceless, classless and immature.
You forgot mis-comprehending.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Lacewing wrote:sthitapragya... good explanation.

I think those who don't "get this", cannot allow themselves to get it, as it reveals/suggests too much that would challenge their platform. Why else do theists never engage in discussions to question themselves and their beliefs? They only come to defend their claims and try to invalidate others. There have only been a few times online, I've seen a theist (with courage and insight) say to a non-theist: "That is an excellent question... and I don't have the answer... I choose to look at it (or explain it) "like this" for myself." Now THAT is an intriguing discussion... because that must surely be what we all are truly doing. When we all come down to earth on the same playing field to fully question why we think what we think, that's how boundaries and understanding can be expanded for those who truly WANT to become aware of more.
This tendency of Theists is frustratingly but also amusingly all too common. They have to insist that atheism is some kind of belief system. Why? because they seem to know that believing is inadequate, and hope to traduce the argument of the atheist by tarring him or her with the same brush as them. But the symmetry here is an illusion.
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Lacewing
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Lacewing »

Hobbes' Choice wrote: This tendency of Theists is frustratingly but also amusingly all too common. They have to insist that atheism is some kind of belief system. Why? because they seem to know that believing is inadequate, and hope to traduce the argument of the atheist by tarring him or her with the same brush as them. But the symmetry here is an illusion.
YES! Being free of belief is not a belief.

Theists are also in the difficult spot of being unable to consider anything beyond their "position", as it is locked-in by all kinds of particular beliefs and stories and structure and conditions, that must remain that way or the majority of it topples. The pressure of maintaining such a thing must be intense, especially as our perspectives expand and we become aware of so much more.
sthitapragya
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by sthitapragya »

Lacewing wrote: YES! Being free of belief is not a belief.
Exactly. And had it not been for Santa, I could have understood the theist claim that absence of belief is a belief. But they have all gone through the Santa phase. So they know exactly what absence of belief is. That is why I don't understand their insistence that absence of belief in God is a belief. They can simply say that the absence of belief in God is wrong. And we can debate that. But I don't understand the need to call absence of belief a belief. Just say it is wrong. Why call it a belief and then say it is a wrong belief? If the existence of Santa were to be debated, would they agree that their absence of belief is a belief? They most definitely would not.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Lacewing wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote: This tendency of Theists is frustratingly but also amusingly all too common. They have to insist that atheism is some kind of belief system. Why? because they seem to know that believing is inadequate, and hope to traduce the argument of the atheist by tarring him or her with the same brush as them. But the symmetry here is an illusion.
YES! Being free of belief is not a belief.

Theists are also in the difficult spot of being unable to consider anything beyond their "position", as it is locked-in by all kinds of particular beliefs and stories and structure and conditions, that must remain that way or the majority of it topples. The pressure of maintaining such a thing must be intense, especially as our perspectives expand and we become aware of so much more.
Yes as our appreciation and knowledge of the universe grows, theism looks more and more like a set of shackles, and god gets squeezed into the "god of the gaps".
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

sthitapragya wrote:
Lacewing wrote: YES! Being free of belief is not a belief.
Exactly. And had it not been for Santa, I could have understood the theist claim that absence of belief is a belief. But they have all gone through the Santa phase. So they know exactly what absence of belief is. That is why I don't understand their insistence that absence of belief in God is a belief. They can simply say that the absence of belief in God is wrong. And we can debate that. But I don't understand the need to call absence of belief a belief. Just say it is wrong. Why call it a belief and then say it is a wrong belief? If the existence of Santa were to be debated, would they agree that their absence of belief is a belief? They most definitely would not.
For a theist who thinks they have a good understanding of God, any atheist, for them, must have a set of counter beliefs to that which sustains their theism - However - theists do not have the monopoly on 'god" as it is not a unitary entity, but a confused and expansive set of ideas, often in contradiction between versions.
The amusing irony in all this, and this refers to the history of "atheism" is that for the greater part of history, most called "atheists" were just a different type of theist - just a type that was heretical to those applying the phrase.
Latterly, atheism, in a literal sense, can only mean either a rejection of theism or simply the absence of it.

For my part I'm not only happy to be called atheist, but anti-theist, since I also consider that belief in god is also harmful to the individual and to society as a whole.
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attofishpi
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by attofishpi »

sthitapragya wrote:I think this clarification is overdue. You have to realize that when we compare God to santa we are not claiming they are both the same thing.
Ah, thats a relief. You really would be a standing fool to think them otherwise.
sthitapragya wrote:We know God is unknowable. Most of us understand and know the concept of God as the unknown and unknowable.
Really - whatever gave you the idea that God is unknowable? I've known God exists since 1997.
sthitapragya wrote:We know God is supposed to transcend time and space
Really? How?
sthitapragya wrote:..that he is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.
Well done then. From my experience 'it' pretty much is.
sthitapragya wrote:So we know that there is no comparison between God and Santa who live lives on the north pole and delivers gifts to kids.
So you are a bunch of raving fuckwits then?
sthitapragya wrote:When we refer to santa, we are simply trying to impress upon Theists that our ABSENCE OF BELIEF IN GOD AND SANTA IS THE SAME AS YOUR ABSENCE OF BELIEF IN SANTA.
No. Lets get this straight - NO adult with a grain of intelligence believes in a man that delivers presents to billions of children on a flying sledge.
sthitapragya wrote:Now whether our absence of belief is right or wrong, is up for debate.
In the case of God or santa? Cos lets face it - if you atheists are suggesting there is rationale in santas existence then you really are dumb fucks.
sthitapragya wrote:You might not like the fact that our absence of belief in God is the same as our absence of belief in santa even though there is no comparison between the two.
Ah!! So you ARE admitting to being dumb fucks!
sthitapragya wrote:You might be right in believing in God and we might be wrong in our absence of belief. But the fact is that our absence of belief in God is as complete as your absence of belief in santa.
No...again you need to understand its OUR - both atheists and theists that can agree there is no reason to believe in santa - you idiot.
sthitapragya wrote:For you to understand our absence of belief in God, the santa reference is made. There is no other way to get this point through to you. No disrespect is meant to the concept of God. We understand that the two cannot be compared.
So you agree you are an idiot for making the comparison?
sthitapragya wrote:I hope this explanation is satisfactory so that some Theists can get off our backs and try to explain to us what we believe. We don't. Period.
Extremely satisfactory...you are AN IDIOT.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Why atheists compare God to santa

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

attofishpi wrote:....
So you are a bunch of raving fuckwits then?

... you really are dumb fucks.
...
Ah!! So you ARE admitting to being dumb fucks!
...- you idiot.
.
Extremely satisfactory...you are AN IDIOT.
..

It's so nice to think that having God inside your head is such a calming influence.

attofishpi needs to talk to and compare notes with Immanuel Can.
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