Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Lacewing
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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Lacewing » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:00 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice, Dalek.

But as to this point...
Dalek Prime wrote:Desire is never ending.
So fucking what? What's wrong with desire? What's wrong with unfulfilled desire? So you try harder or look elsewhere, and find something even more awesome... and on and on. Why are you making things wrong and/or not good enough? Why not say, "Wow! What other fantastic things can I find and experience on this wild road trip?" Like a naked girl in a vat of ice cream! And when you've both had your fill of ice cream... you move on. Why does this life/experience have to mean or be anything in particular?

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Greatest I am
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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:04 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:Salvation from what exactly? I hear this talk of salvation, but fail to see what I'm being saved from. God being the alpha and omega, only he could save, and only from himself. So why ask salvation from your punisher? It makes no sense.
The idea that the church has is to have things not make sense so that the sheeple will continue to pay indulgences to the church for the promised salvation.

If it all made sense, then the religions would not push the idea of faith so hard.

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DL

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Greatest I am
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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:09 pm

sthitapragya wrote:[
That implies that life is suffering from which you need salvation. If God made the earth, and put you here, don't you think it is kind of insulting to imply that he put you here to suffer? Wouldn't it be your duty to ensure that you loved your time on earth because God put you here?

I realized you were joking and tried to delete the post but I cannot so ignore it.
Point to you.

Gnostic Christians like me have a different view of reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

In pure secular language.
We live in the best of all possible worlds because it is the best of all world and the only world we can have given all the past conditions that have gotten us here and now.

Regards
DL

Dalek Prime
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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Dalek Prime » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:19 pm

Lacewing wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice, Dalek.

But as to this point...
Dalek Prime wrote:Desire is never ending.
So fucking what? What's wrong with desire? What's wrong with unfulfilled desire? So you try harder or look elsewhere, and find something even more awesome... and on and on. Why are you making things wrong and/or not good enough? Why not say, "Wow! What other fantastic things can I find and experience on this wild road trip?" Like a naked girl in a vat of ice cream! And when you've both had your fill of ice cream... you move on. Why does this life/experience have to mean or be anything in particular?
Unfulfilled desire is suffering. Show me where it is not. And it's not me who makes things not good enough or wrong. I'm not god.

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Lacewing
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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Lacewing » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:45 pm

Dalek Prime wrote: Unfulfilled desire is suffering. Show me where it is not.
I think unfulfilled desire can be experienced a whole lot of ways -- it is not necessarily what one might consider suffering. It could be disappointment... or inspiring, if one has the sense that their path is being redirected for a very good reason! This has happened to me many times... and I've been able to see that I don't always want my puny ideas to be fulfilled. It's okay to envision something, but if the path shifts, I've come to trust and see it as being for something better. So believe it or not, sometimes when something "fails to go through", I feel gratitude. I don't suffer.
Dalek Prime wrote:And it's not me who makes things not good enough or wrong. I'm not god.
So you think there's a god who is doing it? Aren't you the one deciding that suffering is wrong or bad or not good enough? You seem to be in an epic battle with it, and I think it entertains you, although you wouldn't admit that because that would invalidate your unfulfilled platform. :mrgreen:

Your whole cranky-ass position is very entertaining. I can't seem to help wish that you were possibly having more fun being here... but I realize that you are doing it your way, and that's cool. Go for it!! I'm just sharing my own perspective which is that there are many ways to go about it.

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Harbal
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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Harbal » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:09 pm

Lacewing wrote: Like a naked girl in a vat of ice cream!
He would only say he didn't like that flavour of ice cream, Laceing. You just can't please some peple.

thedoc
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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by thedoc » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:00 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Dalek Prime wrote: Unfulfilled desire is suffering. Show me where it is not.
I think unfulfilled desire can be experienced a whole lot of ways -- it is not necessarily what one might consider suffering. It could be disappointment... or inspiring, if one has the sense that their path is being redirected for a very good reason! This has happened to me many times... and I've been able to see that I don't always want my puny ideas to be fulfilled. It's okay to envision something, but if the path shifts, I've come to trust and see it as being for something better. So believe it or not, sometimes when something "fails to go through", I feel gratitude. I don't suffer.
I could desire to have some attractive woman, and not have her, but still appreciate her beauty. Where is the suffering in that?

thedoc
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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by thedoc » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:05 pm

Dalek Prime wrote: Desire is never ending. Sure, you can limit your desires, and say you're satisfied, but it's only a mind game to keep yourself satisfied.
That sounds very Buddhist, but not very real. There is nothing wrong with desire, just if you let the desire overpower you.

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