Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:26 am

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.

Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.

How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.

For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.

So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.

Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

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DL

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Harbal » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:33 am

Maybe Hitler wasn't spanked enough, who knows?

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Harbal » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:39 am

Greatest I am wrote:.
For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him
It must have been a hell of a spanking.

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:51 am

Harbal wrote:Maybe Hitler wasn't spanked enough, who knows?
Or the spanking made him what he became.

Studies have shown that those who are physically punished tend to fare worse overall than those who are not abused in that way.

Use the rod and spoil the child is closer to the truth than spare the rod and spoil the child.

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Jaded Sage » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:35 am

The way the church teaches it is. The truth isn't.

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:13 pm

Jaded Sage wrote:The way the church teaches it is. The truth isn't.
For sure.

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Jaded Sage » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:20 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:The way the church teaches it is. The truth isn't.
For sure.

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DL
Is that the first time we've completely agreed on something? Lol

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:46 am

Jaded Sage wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:The way the church teaches it is. The truth isn't.
For sure.

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DL
Is that the first time we've completely agreed on something? Lol
No. I agree with many statements.

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DL

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Jaded Sage » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:50 am

Oh. That's good to know. Lol

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greta » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:27 am

A very long time ago, long before religions learned how to play manipulative games, the idea of salvation most likely stemmed from the simple need for most people to work extremely hard to survive. So you save yourself with sustained effort and laziness results in suffering.

In the end it's the idea of salvation is just one of many ways that bosses throughout history have used to control and push their underlings.

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Thu May 05, 2016 6:57 pm

Greta wrote:A very long time ago, long before religions learned how to play manipulative games, the idea of salvation most likely stemmed from the simple need for most people to work extremely hard to survive. So you save yourself with sustained effort and laziness results in suffering.

In the end it's the idea of salvation is just one of many ways that bosses throughout history have used to control and push their underlings.
I and my favorite Bishop agree that it is all about creating the false guilt you are talking about to bring the gullible sheeple to heel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

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DL

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by bobevenson » Fri May 20, 2016 10:27 pm

The Church of Ouzo doesn't claim a need for salvation, but does offer it in a game.

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Greatest I am » Wed May 25, 2016 6:59 pm

bobevenson wrote:The Church of Ouzo doesn't claim a need for salvation, but does offer it in a game.
Then there is no hell in your Church of Ouzo.

Good. The world has enough lies already.

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DL

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by bobevenson » Wed May 25, 2016 9:42 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
bobevenson wrote:The Church of Ouzo doesn't claim a need for salvation, but does offer it in a game.
Then there is no hell in your Church of Ouzo.

Good. The world has enough lies already.

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DL
Hell is produced by our institutional false prophets that prevent the fruition of Revelation 17:17 (a description of the beast with seven heads and ten horns in chapter and verse): "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."

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Re: Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Wed May 25, 2016 10:53 pm

bobevenson wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
bobevenson wrote:The Church of Ouzo doesn't claim a need for salvation, but does offer it in a game.
Then there is no hell in your Church of Ouzo.

Good. The world has enough lies already.

Regards
DL
Hell is produced by our institutional false prophets that prevent the fruition of Revelation 17:17 (a description of the beast with seven heads and ten horns in chapter and verse): "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
Your divine guidance has failed you because you misspelled the first fulfill.

PhilX

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