The world is (almost) godless !

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Obvious Leo
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Re: The world is (almost) godless !

Post by Obvious Leo » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:49 am

Greta wrote: Since we can't wind the clock back, it's fair to say that the vast majority of people in Africa and the middle east will be exposed to religious memes from an early age.
Most people of our generation in Australia were exposed to religious memes from an early age also, Greta. However only a tiny minority of them still cling to them by the time they get to our age. Surely this can be easily explained by the fact that our society has evolved beyond the utility of such nonsense. Could you seriously imagine religion making a serious comeback in this country? I know there are significant pockets of religious observance amongst some migrant groups but this has always been the case and it never seems to last unto the next generation. I can't imagine how this could possibly change. Who wants to go to church when the footy's on and the guys are coming around with a slab for a barbie?

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Greta
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Re: The world is (almost) godless !

Post by Greta » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:54 am

Obvious Leo wrote:Surely this can be easily explained by the fact that our society has evolved beyond the utility of such nonsense.
The way to evolve beyond the utility is to have relatively stable conditions where most people are not suffering inordinately.

Obvious Leo
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Re: The world is (almost) godless !

Post by Obvious Leo » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:08 am

Greta wrote:
Obvious Leo wrote:Surely this can be easily explained by the fact that our society has evolved beyond the utility of such nonsense.
The way to evolve beyond the utility is to have relatively stable conditions where most people are not suffering inordinately.
I couldn't agree more and there can be little doubt that there is far more stability in the world and far less suffering than there ever has been previously in human history. Granted that we face some challenges ahead but I can't see why this overall trend would not continue. Pining nostalgically for the good old days is bollocks because by all imaginable metrics the good old days are happening RIGHT NOW and they're getting better all the time. This is simply the way evolution works and anybody who can't see it has never read a history book. Homo sapiens has never had it so good and those societies which have managed to sack god from their culture have prospered more than those which haven't because religious belief always was and always will be nothing more than a tool of oppression.

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Greta
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Re: The world is (almost) godless !

Post by Greta » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:22 am

Obvious Leo wrote:Homo sapiens has never had it so good and those societies which have managed to sack god from their culture have prospered more than those which haven't because religious belief always was and always will be nothing more than a tool of oppression.
"Homo sapiens has never had it so good" = most people in developed countries and smaller percentages in less developed nations. Then there are those living in terrible conditions where religious belief acts as both compensation and a brake on progress. This comes down to whether we put our faith in outer or inner resources. What if you are too poor to gain resources from outside? Then all you can do is rely on your inner strength and, in lieu of actual support, imagination can sometimes be the last refuge, perhaps one's only stress relief.

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Re: The world is (almost) godless !

Post by Obvious Leo » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:38 am

Greta. I'm sure you realise that I'm only standing a bit further back and looking at the bigger picture. That homo sapiens as a species has never had it so good is undeniable, but naturally for every such sweeping generalisation there will always be plenty of significant exceptions. My original statement referred to a trend against religiosity and the unlikelihood of such a trend being reversible in an information age. Incidentally I don't anticipate that the leprechauns will be making a comeback either, for the same reason.

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Greta
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Re: The world is (almost) godless !

Post by Greta » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:20 pm

Obvious Leo wrote:Greta. I'm sure you realise that I'm only standing a bit further back and looking at the bigger picture. That homo sapiens as a species has never had it so good is undeniable, but naturally for every such sweeping generalisation there will always be plenty of significant exceptions. My original statement referred to a trend against religiosity and the unlikelihood of such a trend being reversible in an information age. Incidentally I don't anticipate that the leprechauns will be making a comeback either, for the same reason.
It was helpful for me to "stand back" in the What Really Matters thread but, when it comes to theism, inequality is a critical factor for the reasons outlined above.

As long as there are large numbers of people who are dispossessed and suffering direly, theism will continue to be an influential force. I very much doubt that most of Africa and the middle east will have the chance to develop significantly now. We are on the edge of some major environmental circumstances and in natural selection positioning is critical. Those in Africa, the middle east, the Pacific Islands and parts of south east Asia (the most theistic places on Earth barring the US) are the worst positioned peoples and destined for exceptionally hard times. Those cultures won't get a chance to catch up because the extreme hubris of their "leaders" has left their people vulnerable.

The effects of climate change, resource depletion and resultant conflicts of interest will stymie most developing countries' efforts to modernise. Progress requires stability, and humanity has just about used up its current supply of natural stability in a famously naive and wasteful manner. Humanity has largely kept natural selection at bay for some time now, but we are about to be reminded of dangerous living again. As the poor are gradually dispersed and killed, the lower middle class will take their place at the bottom of the heap, and I would expect them to be a continuing source of both theism and terrorism.

Empowered people don't need to pray for favours; they just do what's needed. It's the disempowered (including the statistically empowered who feel disempowered), those who feel they need a miracle, who have little to lose and tend to retreat into an inner life to escape torment. By reframing their circumstances they reduce the emotional impact of their difficult lives. While belief is an effective survival strategy on an individual basis, on a societal level it leads to backwardness and the requirement for ever more belief - a vicious circle.

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Re: The world is (almost) godless !

Post by manden » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:07 pm

Why is the world (almost) godless ?

Because the Gods of the religions are nothing but manmade idols , and the other part of the mankind is not interested in a creator of the universe !

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