Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Erlaksoo Astralmirk
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Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Erlaksoo Astralmirk »

I have been struggling with a thought which I haven't been able to find an
answer to. My thought is this: If a person is to spend a finite time on
earth, let´s say 100 years, but an eternity in heaven, wouldn't it be very
unlikely that this person at a certain moment would be on earth? Wouldn't
it be much more likely that the person "already" was in heaven? I am not
trying to rob people of their faiths, on the contrary I hope that there is
an eternal life in heaven. But I wonder if the thought that I just
mentioned is "proving" that such an existence is very unlikely. Obviously,
it is possible that there is a god but no after-life or that the after-life
is altering between being in heaven and being on earth.

I guess that if life would simply end with death and the person in the
question would never be conscious again, one could argue that it also in
such a situation would be unlikely that the person would be alive at any
given moment. However, for the person in question it would not be strange
at all to be alive, as out of all the time "available" to the person, the
person would constantly be alive. The person would never find itself in the
"very common" situation of being dead, as "finding" would require that the
person would exist. I guess that argument is pretty much the same as the
anthropic principle, which states that it is not weird that our universe is
suitable for life as we could never find ourselves in a universe not
suitable for life.

Is my reasoning flawed somewhere or is it virtually logically impossible
that a finite life is followed by an eternity in heaven?
Jaded Sage
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Jaded Sage »

No, your reasoning is astute. The mistake is in assuming that an experience of eternity, which is, by definition, not everlasting, but outside of time altogether, is any different from an experience of death. That inabilility to detect the more likely times is present in heaven for another reason. I'm not sure what the reason is.
Skip
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Skip »

You don't spend all of eternity in heaven; just the rest of eternity - however long the universe lasts from the moment your life on Earth is finished to the end of time.
And, of course, it's not strictly "you" that goes to heaven; it's only the spiritual part, which might not identify itself as the same self that you presently identify as 'you'; indeed, it might not even be part of 'you' at all, but a component that is actually is part of God, that He lends out for the duration of an Earthly life and then reclaims.
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HexHammer
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by HexHammer »

Jaded Sage wrote:No, your reasoning is astute. The mistake is in assuming that an experience of eternity, which is, by definition, not everlasting, but outside of time altogether, is any different from an experience of death. That inabilility to detect the more likely times is present in heaven for another reason. I'm not sure what the reason is.
What a bunch of nonsense and babble, along with this very thread.

Jaded S you are in no place to judge, specially when you blatantly lack intellect to judge properly. Please just shut up.
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HexHammer
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by HexHammer »

Skip wrote:You don't spend all of eternity in heaven; just the rest of eternity - however long the universe lasts from the moment your life on Earth is finished to the end of time.
And, of course, it's not strictly "you" that goes to heaven; it's only the spiritual part, which might not identify itself as the same self that you presently identify as 'you'; indeed, it might not even be part of 'you' at all, but a component that is actually is part of God, that He lends out for the duration of an Earthly life and then reclaims.
I'm not sure that you are aware of what you are saying.

If eternity are eternal, then it doesn't matter when you join an eternity, because it's eternal. :roll:
Walker
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Walker »

Erlaksoo Astralmirk wrote:Is my reasoning flawed somewhere or is it virtually logically impossible that a finite life is followed by an eternity in heaven?
Start with the premise that eternity has nothing to do with an accumulation of years and see where that goes.

Interesting name.
Skip
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Skip »

HexHammer wrote:[If eternity are eternal, then it doesn't matter when you join an eternity, because it's eternal. :roll:
Eternity is eternal. You are not.
A temporally limited thing can fit inside an unlimited time. You occupy an infinitesimal portion of eternity.

Of course I know what I'm talking about: nonsense. I can make up nonsense with any of yous.
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HexHammer
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by HexHammer »

Skip wrote:
HexHammer wrote:[If eternity are eternal, then it doesn't matter when you join an eternity, because it's eternal. :roll:
Eternity is eternal. You are not.
A temporally limited thing can fit inside an unlimited time. You occupy an infinitesimal portion of eternity.

Of course I know what I'm talking about: nonsense. I can make up nonsense with any of yous.
You are soooo selfcontradigting that it hurts! Dude, just shut up!
Jaded Sage
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Jaded Sage »

So, again, eternity is not an accumulation of years, it is a realm entirely outside of time. It is beyond the jurisdiction of time, not subject to the rules of time. There is no aging in eternity, because time does not pass in eternity.
Skip
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Skip »

Jaded Sage wrote:So, again, eternity is not an accumulation of years, it is a realm entirely outside of time. It is beyond the jurisdiction of time, not subject to the rules of time. There is no aging in eternity, because time does not pass in eternity.
So you say.
I said eternity is all of time, from its beginning to its end.

If you are right, no entity from the temporal realm can exist in the extra-temporal realm, because no temporal entity can experience in a non-linear, non-chronological mode. That still leaves the possibility of God inserting a divine molecule in each human at the moment of conception and taking it back at the moment of death. God can then return that molecule to the extra-temporal realm, and either recycle it in a new temporal being, or retire it to eternity. Either way, you can know nothing about this, since you could only know or experience in time and you have already ceased to exist as a temporal entity.
Jaded Sage
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Jaded Sage »

Skip wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:So, again, eternity is not an accumulation of years, it is a realm entirely outside of time. It is beyond the jurisdiction of time, not subject to the rules of time. There is no aging in eternity, because time does not pass in eternity.
So you say.
I said eternity is all of time, from its beginning to its end.

If you are right, no entity from the temporal realm can exist in the extra-temporal realm, because no temporal entity can experience in a non-linear, non-chronological mode. That still leaves the possibility of God inserting a divine molecule in each human at the moment of conception and taking it back at the moment of death. God can then return that molecule to the extra-temporal realm, and either recycle it in a new temporal being, or retire it to eternity. Either way, you can know nothing about this, since you could only know or experience in time and you have already ceased to exist as a temporal entity.
Is that divine molecule what is mentioned by Ecclesiastes when he says, "God put eternity in the hearts of men."

Just because you regularly experience the temporal realm doesn't mean you can't irregularly experience the atemporal realm.
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HexHammer
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by HexHammer »

Jaded Sage wrote:So, again, eternity is not an accumulation of years, it is a realm entirely outside of time. It is beyond the jurisdiction of time, not subject to the rules of time. There is no aging in eternity, because time does not pass in eternity.
Delusional nonsense and babble, you don't have any knowledge of this, only what you derive from your fairy tale world.
Skip
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Skip »

Jaded Sage wrote:Is that divine molecule what is mentioned by Ecclesiastes when he says, "God put eternity in the hearts of men."
Sure - why not?
Just because you regularly experience the temporal realm doesn't mean you can't irregularly experience the atemporal realm.
Yes, it does. Maybe the god-particle can visit Papa while the temporal body it inhabits is unconscious.... But even this is problematic, since it has no way, while it's in the atemporal realm, of judging "when" to return, and thus might miss whole decades of the temporal entity's experience and leave him or her soulless for the duration of its absence.*

The corporeal - visible, palpable, verifiable - portion of an earthly being functions in complex, precise cause-effect chains, which are necessarily chronological. No physical part of such an entity can exist in the atemporal realm.

*which just might account for Kim Jong Un, etc.
Skip
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Skip »

HexHammer wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:So, again, eternity is not an accumulation of years, it is a realm entirely outside of time. It is beyond the jurisdiction of time, not subject to the rules of time. There is no aging in eternity, because time does not pass in eternity.
Delusional nonsense and babble, you don't have any knowledge of this, only what you derive from your fairy tale world.
And your problem....?
Jaded Sage
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Re: Is eternity in heaven logically impossible?

Post by Jaded Sage »

Skip wrote:
Jaded Sage wrote:Is that divine molecule what is mentioned by Ecclesiastes when he says, "God put eternity in the hearts of men."
Sure - why not?
Just because you regularly experience the temporal realm doesn't mean you can't irregularly experience the atemporal realm.
Yes, it does. Maybe the god-particle can visit Papa while the temporal body it inhabits is unconscious.... But even this is problematic, since it has no way, while it's in the atemporal realm, of judging "when" to return, and thus might miss whole decades of the temporal entity's experience and leave him or her soulless for the duration of its absence.*

The corporeal - visible, palpable, verifiable - portion of an earthly being functions in complex, precise cause-effect chains, which are necessarily chronological. No physical part of such an entity can exist in the atemporal realm.

*which just might account for Kim Jong Un, etc.

You didn't read what I wrote carefully. Two corrections: 1) I see no reason to think causality must be chronological by necessity (I am aware that it is usually thought of that way), 2) the idea that corporeal is synonymous with verifiable such that incorporeal is synonymous with unverifiable is a mistake that has been made since the days of Descartes. I suppose you also say the mind is a delusion or a hallucination that has no existence of its own outside of brainstates. Everyone knows the mind can be explained exclusively in terms of brainstates, but that in no way proves that it has no existence of its own.

Cheers.
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