How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Skip
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Skip »

Gustav Bjornstrand
What you do, Skip, and what is clearly seen in all your efforts, is work like the devil to undermine very valuable achievement because you have a core and virulent hatred in you. It is a momentum that has taken possession of your ideas, and it is exactly that which I describe as 'destructive' and 'an acid'. You and millions just like you have drunk down the same poison. You proceed to proselytise with religious zeal.
Tsk, tsk. And I've never even called you a fascist.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

European fascism arose out of resistance to and rebellion against communist and Marxist doctrines. You have little comprehension of what Marxian ideas are composed of, yet you embody a sort of post-Marxism critique.

I am now working in, and desire to keep working in, intellectual areas that resist 'radical liberalism' (a form of post-Marxist praxis), and other infectious ideas. Should you feel comfortable giving me the label of fascist or neo-fascist I have no problem with it at all.

For as long as I am on this forum I will make valiant efforts to clarify my views. I believe in and value direct speech. I notice that you are adept at this and seem to value it, too.

We have looootttsss of time here. Lots of screen inches of posts.
Skip
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Skip »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:European fascism arose out of resistance to and rebellion against communist and Marxist doctrines. You have little comprehension of what Marxian ideas are composed of, yet you embody a sort of post-Marxism critique.
Now, that's a little more of you than I ever wanted to see. I have not assigned you a definitive label, partly because you're too wordy and handy with the link button to classify with the H's, partly because of the old gold rule, and partly because, even though I'm succinct as a matter of habit, I do try to resist glib categorization. If it fits, pin it on (preferably on your birthday suit) and wear it proudly. If not, don't.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

I did not say that it fits, and it likely does not exactly fit. I believe in 'establishing location' and understanding the ideas that inform a person's thinking. Since I am working hard to define positions that are 'anti-radical liberal', and note that on the far end of radical liberalism there is Stalinism, Maoism, and communism and such, if I define a position that is perhaps even more to the right than 'conservatism', shouldn't I recognise that there, lurking in that fringe, is the dread philosophy of neo-fascism? It is part of an old European tradition and should be understood.

If someone tells you they are anti-democratic philosophically (I am no activist and anyway I don't live in the US or in N America), anti-homosexual (as I carefully define it), and pro-masculine (not misogynist), is it not necessary to see the neo-fascist connection? I think it is. Therefor I acknowledge it. And I will say that the doctrine of fascism/neo-fascism has numerous very good ideas in it. But then so does communism, and liberal capitalism.

I am only trying to help you Skip. :D
Skip
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Skip »

I'll muddle through on my own - thanks all the same.
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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:European fascism arose out of resistance to and rebellion against communist and Marxist doctrines. You have little comprehension of what Marxian ideas are composed of, yet you embody a sort of post-Marxism critique.

I am now working in, and desire to keep working in, intellectual areas that resist 'radical liberalism' (a form of post-Marxist praxis), and other infectious ideas. Should you feel comfortable giving me the label of fascist or neo-fascist I have no problem with it at all.

For as long as I am on this forum I will make valiant efforts to clarify my views. I believe in and value direct speech. I notice that you are adept at this and seem to value it, too.

We have looootttsss of time here. Lots of screen inches of posts.
WHy don't you just join your buddies and start burning books?
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

There is a long list of 'hot' words. Any one of them - apparently - would seem to have maddening power over you, Hobbles. There is a lesson here: it is that all the hottest words, the propaganda terms, conventions and idées reçues, require careful examination. All the terms of modern thought are infused with unexamined, prefab ideas. As philosopher shouldn't this be obvious to you?
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Skip wrote: People are people. They come with a pretty standard issue hardware, formed by the same evolutionary processes, on the same planet. They go through the same developmental phases. Wherever they build civilizations, those civilizations have the same features: a pyramidal power structure, specialization of functions, carrot-and-stick formal morality, codified law, regulated trade and commerce, coinage, art and culture: armed forces, bureaucrats, labourers, aristocrats, entertainers, police, farmers, tax collectors, snake-oil salesmen, artisans, pimps, beggars, chroniclers, and very often, professional mourners.
You're a beacon of hope for a brave new world, skip, a philosopher of the bloody obvious. The universe is nothing more than a continuous panorama of events where the events of the present are determined by the events of the past and the events of the future will be determined by the events of the present. That's IT. It simply isn't any more complicated than this because it simply doesn't need to be and the principles of Occam economy must apply. Too many people have a head full of solutions looking for a problem to apply them to when all along the truth is hidden in plain sight. Reality is exactly what it appears to be.
Skip
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Skip »

Philosophers of the bloody obvious know better than to hope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE0CeyPoUgw
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

Sorry, chappies ...

People do not come into the world with the same hardware, except in a very general sense. And they definitely do not come in with the same software. Physically, and mentally, people are sufficiently different and therein lies the telling difference. To define what 'software' is here, is crucial. Though certainly formed by 'evolutionary processes', mental and cultural evolution produce giant differences in every people's attainments, and thus the 'worlds' of each people is as different as night from day. A simple and incontrovertible fact. Though we all go through 'development phases', we also go through very different phases of development, turns are taken here that were never contemplated or possible there, or were thwarted; decisions are made here that are not made there, and some phases, by some people, will not occur as some people become frozen, for a host of reasons. Civilisations may have similar external features, perhaps pyramidal (an empty term really), they may have trade, armies, police, cultural centres, science of a sort, technology and government, but they did not ever develop these things in the same way as Europe did, and for this reason it is European-originated systems that are studied and applied all over the world.

These are facts that are easily distinguished by any person with two eyes in their head. The ones whose eyes will not function, who have been trained how not to see, or to mistake projections for reality, are victims of propaganda and questionable - insidious - cultural forces. In any case they do not think freely, and possibly cannot. This is groupthink. Groupsight.

The thinker of these mediocrities - repetitions of standard-fare thinking - did no thinking, offers no genuine analysis, and contributes nothing of value or of use. Quite the opposite. This is philosophical Cheese Whiz, half-baked sentimentalism with no relationship to 'what is'. It is a strange, rather twisted idealism, and even stranger metaphysical projection, that brings thinking and precise perception to a stone-cold halt.

But there is hope. By calling a spade a spade (first step anyway) there is a prospect that intelligence may be prodded a little to see how ridiculous and false these ideas are, how they derive a narrative that is common, trite, and undermining.

This is not philosophy, it is boosterism.
Obvious Leo
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote: And they definitely do not come in with the same software.
We all come into the world with no software whatsoever, Gustav. Human beings are completely self-programming and writing our own software is precisely what our life's journey is all about. Naturally this only applies to those with the guts to do it and not to those who allow themselves to be programmed by others. Socrates knew all about this because this is what he meant when he spoke of the examined life.
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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand »

Nurse Leo: Chomsky corrected Socrates. Cf. prenatal acquisition of speech parameters. There is a great deal of 'software' which is formed before we arrive here. And further there are very significant information gaps in this area.

But that is not what I was talking about. I said to understand what is meant by 'software', is crucial. Softward in the sense I mean it is cultural and social material.

It is a given that there is such a thing as an 'examined life' and to do so does require guts.

Do you write these posts stoned?
Skip
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Skip »

Someone's goaded him off the big bronze horse.
Obvious Leo
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Obvious Leo »

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:Nurse Leo: Chomsky corrected Socrates. Cf. prenatal acquisition of speech parameters. There is a great deal of 'software' which is formed before we arrive here. And further there are very significant information gaps in this area.
Did I say that human existence begins at some arbitrary time AFTER conception. I'm pretty sure I didn't so what I said is perfectly consistent with Chomsky.
Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:Do you write these posts stoned?
No. Never. I only ever write comedic prose or poetry when stoned.
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Re: How do atheists find meaning in a purposeless universe?

Post by Philosophy Explorer »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Gustav Bjornstrand wrote: And they definitely do not come in with the same software.
We all come into the world with no software whatsoever, Gustav. Human beings are completely self-programming and writing our own software is precisely what our life's journey is all about. Naturally this only applies to those with the guts to do it and not to those who allow themselves to be programmed by others. Socrates knew all about this because this is what he meant when he spoke of the examined life.
Leo,

I think what Gustav is driving at here is in reference to our DNA so to that extent, we are preprogrammed.

PhilX
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