What would it take to convince you that somebody is a prophet?

[bobevenson]

Gary, please remember that most of the people in this forum are like the detractors of the prophet John on the isle of Patmos, who wrote the book of Revelation. By the way, if you add the year Revelation was written (96 AD) plus Iesous in classical Greek gematria (888) plus the time that Christ reigns after Armageddon (1000 years), the total adds up to 1984, the year "The Ouzo Prophecy" was written.

[Gary Childress]

Gary, please remember that most of the people in this forum are like the detractors of the prophet John on the isle of Patmos, who wrote the book of Revelation. By the way, if you add the year Revelation was written (96 AD) plus Iesous in classical Greek gematria (888) plus the time that Christ reigns after Armageddon (1000 years), the total adds up to 1984, the year "The Ouzo Prophecy" was written.

Or they could be right and that you are not a prophet. Who should I believe? You or your detractors? Can you prove to me that you are a prophet?

[Arising_uk]

Does he have to turn water into wine, or what, exactly?

Nope, just make a prophecy that we can test is true.

[bobevenson]

Does he have to turn water into wine, or what, exactly?

Nope, just make a prophecy that we can test is true.

How do you test a divinely inspired utterance? How do you test existentialism?

[bobevenson]

Gary, please remember that most of the people in this forum are like the detractors of the prophet John on the isle of Patmos, who wrote the book of Revelation. By the way, if you add the year Revelation was written (96 AD) plus Iesous in classical Greek gematria (888) plus the time that Christ reigns after Armageddon (1000 years), the total adds up to 1984, the year "The Ouzo Prophecy" was written.

Or they could be right and that you are not a prophet. Who should I believe? You or your detractors? Can you prove to me that you are a prophet?

This is not something that can be directly "proved." Like I said earlier, I think it has to be something more indirect, like mystical coincidences that seem to come out of nowhere and beyond anybody's control.

[Gary Childress]

Does he have to turn water into wine, or what, exactly?

Nope, just make a prophecy that we can test is true.

Well, a little more than that even, maybe. For obvious example, someone could "prophesize" that the sun will rise tomorrow. I wouldn't call that the work of a "prophet" either. It would have to be something more astounding than that.

[Gary Childress]

Gary, please remember that most of the people in this forum are like the detractors of the prophet John on the isle of Patmos, who wrote the book of Revelation. By the way, if you add the year Revelation was written (96 AD) plus Iesous in classical Greek gematria (888) plus the time that Christ reigns after Armageddon (1000 years), the total adds up to 1984, the year "The Ouzo Prophecy" was written.

Or they could be right and that you are not a prophet. Who should I believe? You or your detractors? Can you prove to me that you are a prophet?

This is not something that can be directly "proved." Like I said earlier, I think it has to be something more indirect, like mystical coincidences that seem to come out of nowhere and beyond anybody's control.[/size][/b]

So in other words you are not sure you are a prophet either?

What do "mystical coincidences" tell us, though? Numerology is the equivalent of something like this:

2 + 2 = 4 and there are 4 legs on a giraffe and 4 quarters in a whole, and my first name is 4 letters long.

I mean, what can I conclude from that? what does that "mean"? Even assuming it were some sort of "sign" from God, what then is God trying to tell us?

[Ginkgo]

Does he have to turn water into wine, or what, exactly?

Nope, just make a prophecy that we can test is true.

How do you test a divinely inspired utterance? How do you test existentialism?

What type of existentialism did you have in mind Bob?

[Lacewing]

Are you completely dense?

This is a rhetorical question, right?

A bit. I actually would like to hear what people will answer honestly to any question I pose. But I'm not surprised that anyone whom I would ask such a question as this, is not likely to be someone who can or will answer what I typically ask. Self-reflection threatens their game plan.

...it has to be something more indirect, like mystical coincidences that seem to come out of nowhere and beyond anybody's control.

I experience this a LOT. Many people experience this. Anyone CAN experience this. It's natural. My guess is that we don't need prophets telling us that we need them; they are an extra layer that obscures and manipulates. Humans don't need intermediaries between themselves and their source (whatever it may be). There are limitless insights we can have. None of them should be put on a pedestal or turned into an idol.

Even assuming it were some sort of "sign" from God, what then is God trying to tell us?

Whatever we make it up to be.

[Gary Childress]

I experience this a LOT. Many people experience this. Anyone CAN experience this. It's natural. My guess is that we don't need prophets telling us that we need them; they are an extra layer that obscures and manipulates. Humans don't need intermediaries between themselves and their source (whatever it may be). There are limitless insights we can have. None of them should be put on a pedestal or turned into an idol.

What sorts of "mystical coincidences" have you experienced?

[Obvious Leo]

Self-reflection threatens their game plan.

You take considerable liberties with our language if you suppose that a term such as "self-reflection" can be sensibly applied to an utterance emanating from the polluted mind of Bob Evenson.

[Lacewing]

What sorts of "mystical coincidences" have you experienced?

Hi Gary. This is normally the kind of topic I LOVE discussing... as I think it is so interesting to realize what is possible beyond the confines of what we consider "real/normal". I've had experiences that truly transcend myself and the physical/material reality we are used to. (No drugs of any kind. And I don't think of it as any kind of meditation.) It's like naturally merging with a mainframe for a few moments, and being aware of how everything is connected and flowing, and knowing what to do to align in a certain way. It's not about "thinking" or manipulating -- it's just open awareness. The "me" disappears. The world's drama and stories disappear. I've been left with the impression that everything is sacred and connected... but none of it means anything in the way we think it does. Being here is a temporary dance we can do with joy or horror or anywhere in-between. Beyond "this", is beyond our comprehension right now. There have been times I've described these experiences as being like "drinking from a fire hose"... because just a few moments are enough. Such an experience really blows the doors off of this world (for me) as we think we know it. It's like seeing behind a curtain... and it's really a beautiful and perfect and peaceful realm. I can only guess that we creatively torment ourselves for entertainment. (That's my best attempt to describe something that's really beyond human concepts/words.)

This forum does not appear to be a place that would appreciate and support the sharing of such experiences, so I probably won't with any detail. I've gotten the impression that there are people here who just want to snatch up what they can to use against others... to tear others down... and it's really kind of a pathetic display of wasted potential... but it has it's entertainment value for a little while. I think that everything we do either digs us in deeper, or propels us on to more expanded spaces. The more we understand... the more dances we can interact with... the more flexible we are on all levels. Any time we think we've got it all figured out... we are buried so much deeper than if we understood we didn't know much of anything.

[Gary Childress]

What sorts of "mystical coincidences" have you experienced?

Hi Gary. This is normally the kind of topic I LOVE discussing... as I think it is so interesting to realize what is possible beyond the confines of what we consider "real/normal". I've had experiences that truly transcend myself and the physical/material reality we are used to. (No drugs of any kind. And I don't think of it as any kind of meditation.) It's like naturally merging with a mainframe for a few moments, and being aware of how everything is connected and flowing, and knowing what to do to align in a certain way. It's not about "thinking" or manipulating -- it's just open awareness. The "me" disappears. The world's drama and stories disappear. I've been left with the impression that everything is sacred and connected... but none of it means anything in the way we think it does. Being here is a temporary dance we can do with joy or horror or anywhere in-between. Beyond "this", is beyond our comprehension right now. There have been times I've described these experiences as being like "drinking from a fire hose"... because just a few moments are enough. Such an experience really blows the doors off of this world (for me) as we think we know it. It's like seeing behind a curtain... and it's really a beautiful and perfect and peaceful realm. I can only guess that we creatively torment ourselves for entertainment. (That's my best attempt to describe something that's really beyond human concepts/words.)

This forum does not appear to be a place that would appreciate and support the sharing of such experiences, so I probably won't with any detail. I've gotten the impression that there are people here who just want to snatch up what they can to use against others... to tear others down... and it's really kind of a pathetic display of wasted potential... but it has it's entertainment value for a little while. I think that everything we do either digs us in deeper, or propels us on to more expanded spaces. The more we understand... the more dances we can interact with... the more flexible we are on all levels. Any time we think we've got it all figured out... we are buried so much deeper than if we understood we didn't know much of anything.

That's very poetic Lacewing. Sounds like you have had some very spiritually moving experiences.

There are times when I wonder to myself if we are not our own biggest barriers to spirituality because we are too skeptical. On the other hand I think there is a sense in which skepticism can also be healthy to an extent. For example if I suddenly started hearing voices that told me to jump off a cliff skepticism might be a good thing.

[Lacewing]

That's very poetic Lacewing.

Thank you Gary.

There are times when I wonder to myself if we are not our own biggest barriers to spirituality because we are too skeptical. On the other hand I think there is a sense in which skepticism can also be healthy to an extent. For example if I suddenly started hearing voices that told me to jump off a cliff skepticism might be a good thing.

I agree with you -- skepticism can be a very good thing! We don't all want to be flailing around and chasing after things willy nilly.

Hmm... I'm thinking about this in relation to spirituality. I think skepticism is good for analyzing and making decisions on one channel... and the depths of spirituality are on another channel. And it's helpful to consider the information on both channels, but not let the broadcasts cross-over in a way that confuses both messages? Hopefully we aren't too hard on ourselves or others for having "noisy reception"... we compassionately understand that we're noisy humans, doing the best we can in this challenging life experience... and we bravely keep striving to adjust our antenna for clearer reception! And then, perhaps: Clarity becomes more important than ego.

[Arising_uk]

How do you test a divinely inspired utterance? ...

Well, you either show me this 'God' or you make a prophecy with a time constraint.

How do you test existentialism?

You philosophise about it, something you appear loathe to do with your 'prophesying'.