How To Tell Right From Wrong

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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artisticsolution
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How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:28 pm

The following applies to Christian's only...

This is a no brainer Christians! If you want to know if what you think, say or do is moral or immoral there is a quick and easy way!

All you have to do is imagine you have died and are standing in front of God on judgement day. Then imagine yourself telling God what your firmly held beliefs are. If you can tell him with pride, then you are on morally sound ground. If you can't or wouldn't tell him, then you do not believe in your heart it is the morally 'right' thing to do.

Here's two examples of what I am saying (there are countless more):

1.Suppose you are for gunning down Mexicans because they crossed your borders.

If you can tell God that you thought it was a good idea to kill illegal aliens to his face, and mean that you truly with all your heart think it's the moral thing to do, then you are not to be held accountable for your sin as you are not capable of understanding.

However, if you can't look God in the eye, and tell him with all conviction that you think it a good idea to kill all illegal aliens who cross borders, then there is your answer...you know it is morally wrong to kill illegal aliens crossing borders and you know God would think so too.

2.Suppose you are convinced that white people are superior and black people are inferior.

If you can ask God, "Why did you make f'n n******?" and truly believe you are on moral high ground, then you are not to be held accountable for your sin as you are not capable of understanding.

However, if you can't look God in the eye, and tell him your convictions that you think white people are superior to black people and use racial slurs while doing it, then there is your answer, you know that it is morally wrong to be a racist and you know God would think so too.

So Christians, the next time you say or think something, ask yourself, could I say this to God face to face or would I hesitate?

That in a nutshell, Christians, is how to tell right from wrong.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:01 pm

So Hitler goes to heaven for wholeheartedly killing the Jews, and Obama fails because he never wholeheartedly pushed through Obama care to provide sick people with treatment they could afford.

Nice!

Remind me never to trust a Christian- oh shit I never have.

artisticsolution
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:45 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:So Hitler goes to heaven for wholeheartedly killing the Jews, and Obama fails because he never wholeheartedly pushed through Obama care to provide sick people with treatment they could afford.

Nice!

Remind me never to trust a Christian- oh shit I never have.
Do you think Hitler should go to hell if he was mentally ill?

Do you think if any killer is mentally handicapped and doesn't know right from wrong, he should go to hell?

What if, in the future, we learn all there is to know, about the brain? What if we can someday cure mental illness? What if someday people can understand and maximize their mind's potential in a rational healthy way?

Would there then be what we consider 'evil'? Would evil cease to exist? Has it ever really existed in the first place? How can we tell if what we think is evil...what we want to punish...is really a thing? It could be an illness.

In that case, would you want a cure or would you want vengeance in the form of a hell?

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:50 pm

artisticsolution wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:So Hitler goes to heaven for wholeheartedly killing the Jews, and Obama fails because he never wholeheartedly pushed through Obama care to provide sick people with treatment they could afford.

Nice!

Remind me never to trust a Christian- oh shit I never have.
Do you think Hitler should go to hell if he was mentally ill?
I never suggested he was mentally ill. Hitler had a heartfelt hatred of Jews, based on good German christian ideology that goes as far back as Martin Luther and beyond.

But if god made him, such that he hated jews, or made him such that he was mentally ill, then god will have to figure out his responsibility in the matter, won't he?

The rest of your 'what ifs', are of no consequence. If I was god, there would be no hell in the first place. An all powerful god has to be responsible for who and what he creates. What kind of a god is it that creates a thing only to torture them for the rest of eternity?

artisticsolution
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by artisticsolution » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:01 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:So Hitler goes to heaven for wholeheartedly killing the Jews, and Obama fails because he never wholeheartedly pushed through Obama care to provide sick people with treatment they could afford.

Nice!

Remind me never to trust a Christian- oh shit I never have.
Do you think Hitler should go to hell if he was mentally ill?
I never suggested he was mentally ill. Hitler had a heartfelt hatred of Jews, based on good German christian ideology that goes as far back as Martin Luther and beyond.

But if god made him, such that he hated jews, or made him such that he was mentally ill, then god will have to figure out his responsibility in the matter, won't he?

The rest of your 'what ifs', are of no consequence. If I was god, there would be no hell in the first place. An all powerful god has to be responsible for who and what he creates. What kind of a god is it that creates a thing only to torture them for the rest of eternity?
Exactly, what if.

The reason I started this thread is because I believe devout Christians have not developed a strong moral compass and instead rely on the bible and their peers to tell them the difference between right and wrong. People who are not religious rely on their moral compass to discern right from wrong, I think.

It is very unlikely to change a Christian's belief about God, however, I think they can learn to develop a stronger moral compass that perhaps could help them realize that some of the things they are led to believe, are in fact, not in keeping with the whole point of Christianity, which is the belief in good against evil.

I understand what you are, saying about what if God is a dick...aand it's a good point..but that needs an entirely new thread.

I am trying to work within the perimeters of Christianity that I see here in America and the problem I can see with the rational of today's Christian who has difficulty with a moral compass.

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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by Obvious Leo » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:55 pm

artisticsolution wrote:The reason I started this thread is because I believe devout Christians have not developed a strong moral compass and instead rely on the bible and their peers to tell them the difference between right and wrong. People who are not religious rely on their moral compass to discern right from wrong, I think.
This seems to be the central thrust of your thread and it is a point with which I agree wholeheartedly. Religious belief is fundamentally immoral because it transfers the burden of moral culpability for one's actions from the individual onto a non-existent being. However this ancient tradition seems to be enjoying a modern renaissance in the middle east even as we speak. The reference to Nazism is apposite because since WWII this delegation of personal responsibility has come to be known as the "Nuremberg defence". It was ruled an invalid defence at the war crimes trials and I'm yet to hear of a compelling argument in its favour. The jihadis might wish to bear this in mind when the long arm of the law eventually catches up with them.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:48 pm

With all religions remains the problem of the Socratic paradox, that no one thinks he does evil if he is acting within the will of god. That's easy to spot in a foreign terrorist who kills "innocent" people. But each victim, to him, is an infidel in not following the "true" religion. What is harder to spot is the casual disregard with which we allow our governments to 'terrorise' the same foreign countries, sometimes for hundreds of years, in the name of 'security' or global politics. All these things are done "for the greater good~", yet all we do is stir up more and more trouble for each successive generation.

What is one man's meat is another's poison, OR what is good for one man is evil for another woman.
There is very little that can be done that does good without doing evil to another.

The Inglorious One
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by The Inglorious One » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:49 am

Why do you suppose no Christian has responded?

artisticsolution
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by artisticsolution » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:31 pm

The Inglorious One wrote:Why do you suppose no Christian has responded?
They know what I am saying is true so there is nothing more to add.

duszek
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:42 pm

I agree with AS.

The good point about her test is that it makes one aware whether one is using an excuse towards oneself and others or not.

And excuses are a device from hell, an instrument of vice and cheating and misery.

artisticsolution
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by artisticsolution » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:46 pm

duszek wrote:I agree with AS.

The good point about her test is that it makes one aware whether one is using an excuse towards oneself and others or not.

And excuses are a device from hell, an instrument of vice and cheating and misery.
Thank you, duszek...are you Christian?

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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:50 pm

I was raised as a Roman Catholic girl, like almost everyone in Poland.
Now I am still a Christian but not a very ardent one.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:06 pm

artisticsolution wrote:
The Inglorious One wrote:Why do you suppose no Christian has responded?
They know what I am saying is true so there is nothing more to add.
Oh, I'll tell you why.

In order to engage, a Christian usually wants at least two things:

1) a reasonable assurance that the asker of a question wants an answer and a conversation, rather than, say, merely a chance to be snide and self-satisfied, and

2) some slight indication that the asker is minimally knowledgeable of what Christians do, in fact, think: or at least open to becoming so.

If all an asker is doing is being perversely confrontational (and one can usually tell from the extremism of the wording), then it becomes a question of why one should bother to disabuse someone of his/her prejudices when he/she is so clearly attached to those prejudices, and is merely seeking an opportunity for triumphalism. What would be the point? It would just make everyone unhappy.

A certain amount of goodwill is always necessary on both sides if wisdom is going to proceed. If circumstances show that minimal politeness is being replaced by extravagances or abuse, then the necessary goodwill is absent...and we can hardly blame reasonable people for declining such an "opportunity."

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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:24 pm

I am surprised, Immanuel Can.

Do you mean that AS is simply provoking ? And not a Christian herself ? :shock:
And not interested in an honest discussion and a progress towards wisdom ?

artisticsolution
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Re: How To Tell Right From Wrong

Post by artisticsolution » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:28 pm

duszek wrote:I am surprised, Immanuel Can.

Do you mean that AS is simply provoking ? And not a Christian herself ? :shock:
And not interested in an honest discussion and a progress towards wisdom ?
Probably a little of both, Duszek, as I had family members over on the 4th who were suggesting that we line the border between mexico and the US with all our national guard so they could kill illegals and " keep our country safe".

This is what I deal with day in and day out in my neck of the world and it just drains me. I just don't understand it.

So I gave it some thought, on how one could know if what they were saying was moral...and I thought about how I learned right from wrong when I was little. ..and I remember doing just that...thinking about if I could look god in the face and say exactly what I had in my mind. If the answer was no then I probably knew down deep that I was morally wrong /full of bullshit.

I know my family doesn't really think the should kill illegals...or hate in any way as they try to be good people. They just lose their moral compass sometimes, and when they do ...the nonsense they spout just gets on my nerves.

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