Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Christia

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Lev Muishkin
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by Lev Muishkin »

thedoc wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
thedoc wrote:It was my impression (from watching the video) that the Pope was directing his remarks to his own people in the Catholic church as well as those of other religions. I didn't see him as excusing Catholics from being disrespectful of other religions.
Of course not. Showing that they are no better than others is not a part of his agenda.

Regards
DL

I would say that this is just you speaking through your own bias.
Bias is the means by which people have opinions. And that is why the Pope thinks he is more important then anyone else.
Blaggard
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by Blaggard »

That's trite.

PJPII?
Pope John Paul II (Latin: Ioannes Paulus II), born Karol Józef Wojtyła[a] (Polish: [ˈkarɔl ˈjuzɛf vɔjˈtɨwa]; 18 May 1920 ‒ 2 April 2005) was pope of the Catholic Church from 16 October 1978 until his death on 2 April 2005.[3][4] In Catholicism, since his canonisation, he is referred to as Pope Saint John Paul II or Saint John Paul the Great, for example as a name for institutions.[5][6][7] He was the second longest-serving pope in modern history after Pope Pius IX, who served for nearly 32 years from 1846 to 1878. Born in Poland, John Paul II was the first non-Italian pope since the Dutch Pope Adrian VI, who served from 1522 to 1523.

John Paul II is recognised as helping to end Communist rule in his native Poland and eventually all of Europe.[8] John Paul II significantly improved the Catholic Church's relations with Judaism, Islam, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Anglican Communion. He upheld the Church's teachings on such matters as artificial contraception and the ordination of women, but also supported the Church's Second Vatican Council and its reforms.

He was one of the most travelled world leaders in history, visiting 129 countries during his pontificate. As part of his special emphasis on the universal call to holiness, he beatified 1,340 people and canonised 483 saints, more than the combined tally of his predecessors during the preceding five centuries. By the time of his death, he had named most of the College of Cardinals, consecrated or co-consecrated a large number of the world's bishops, and ordained many priests.[9] A key goal of his papacy was to transform and reposition the Catholic Church. His wish was "to place his Church at the heart of a new religious alliance that would bring together Jews, Muslims and Christians in a great religious armada".[10][11]

John Paul II's cause for canonisation commenced in 2005 one month after his death with the traditional five-year waiting period waived. On 19 December 2009, John Paul II was proclaimed Venerable by his successor Pope Benedict XVI and was beatified on 1 May 2011 after the Congregation for the Causes of Saints attributed one miracle to him, the healing of a French nun from Parkinson's disease. A second miracle attributed to John Paul II was approved on 2 July 2013, and confirmed by Pope Francis two days later (two miracles must be attributed to a person to be declared a saint). John Paul II was canonised on 27 April 2014, together with Pope John XXIII.[12] On 11 September 2014, Pope Francis added John Paul II's optional memorial feast day to the worldwide General Roman Calendar of saints, in response to worldwide requests.[13] It is traditional to celebrate saints' feast days on the anniversary of their deaths, but that of John Paul II (22 October) is celebrated on the anniversary of his papal inauguration.[14][15]





Early life
Main article: Early life of Pope John Paul II
The wedding portrait of John Paul II's parents, Emilia and Karol Wojtyła Snr
The courtyard within the family home of the Wojtyłas in Wadowice, Poland

Karol Józef Wojtyła was born in the Polish town of Wadowice.[16][17] He was the youngest of three children born to Karol Wojtyła (1879–1941), an ethnic Pole,[18] and Emilia Kaczorowska (1884–1929), whose mother's maiden surname was Scholz.[19] Emilia, who was a schoolteacher, died in childbirth in 1929[20] when Wojtyła was eight years old.[21] His elder sister Olga had died before his birth, but he was close to his brother Edmund, nicknamed Mundek, who was 13 years his senior. Edmund's work as a physician eventually led to his death from scarlet fever, a loss that affected Wojtyła deeply.[18][21]

As a boy, Wojtyła was athletic, often playing football as goalkeeper.[22] During his childhood, Wojtyła had contact with Wadowice's large Jewish community.[23] School football games were often organised between teams of Jews and Catholics, and Wojtyła often played on the Jewish side.[18][22] "I remember that at least a third of my classmates at elementary school in Wadowice were Jews. At elementary school there were fewer. With some I was on very friendly terms. And what struck me about some of them was their Polish patriotism."[24] Wojtyła's first, and possibly only, love affair was with a Jewish girl, Ginka Beer, who was described as "slender", "a superb actress" and "having stupendous dark eyes and jet black hair".[11][23]

In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and was required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, but he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[25] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 12 foreign languages,[26] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
Nazi occupation of Poland and the Holocaust

In 1939, Nazi German occupation forces closed the university after invading Poland.[16] Able-bodied males were required to work, so from 1940 to 1944 Wojtyła variously worked as a messenger for a restaurant, a manual labourer in a limestone quarry and for the Solvay chemical factory, to avoid deportation to Germany.[17][25] His father, a former Austro-Hungarian non-commissioned officer and later officer in the Polish Army, died of a heart attack in 1941,[19] leaving Wojtyła as the immediate family's only surviving member.[18][20][27] "I was not at my mother's death, I was not at my brother's death, I was not at my father's death," he said, reflecting on these times of his life, nearly forty years later, "At twenty, I had already lost all the people I loved."[27]
The tomb of the parents of John Paul II at Rakowicki Cemetery in Kraków, Poland

After his father's death, he started thinking seriously about the priesthood.[28] In October 1942, while the war continued, he knocked on the door of the Bishop's Palace in Kraków and asked to study for the priesthood.[28] Soon after, he began courses in the clandestine underground seminary run by the Archbishop of Kraków, Adam Stefan Cardinal Sapieha. On 29 February 1944, Wojtyła was hit by a German truck. German Wehrmacht officers tended to him and sent him to a hospital. He spent two weeks there recovering from a severe concussion and a shoulder injury. It seemed to him that this accident and his survival was a confirmation of his vocation. On 6 August 1944, a day known as 'Black Sunday',[29] the Gestapo rounded up young men in Kraków to curtail the uprising there, [29] similar to the recent uprising in Warsaw.[30][31] Wojtyła escaped by hiding in the basement of his uncle's house at 10 Tyniecka Street, while the German troops searched above.[28][30][31] More than eight thousand men and boys were taken that day, while Wojtyła escaped to the Archbishop's Palace,[28][29][30] where he remained until after the Germans had left.[18][28][30]

On the night of 17 January 1945, the Germans fled the city, and the students reclaimed the ruined seminary. Wojtyła and another seminarian volunteered for the task of clearing away piles of frozen excrement from the toilets.[32] Wojtyła also helped a 14-year-old Jewish refugee girl named Edith Zierer,[33] who had run away from a Nazi labour camp in Częstochowa.[33] Edith had collapsed on a railway platform, so Wojtyła carried her to a train and stayed with her throughout the journey to Kraków. Edith credits Wojtyła with saving her life that day.[34][35][36] B'nai B'rith and other authorities have said that Wojtyła helped protect many other Polish Jews from the Nazis. During the Nazi occupation of Poland, a Jewish family sent its son, Stanley Berger, to be hidden by a Gentile Polish family. Berger's biological Jewish parents died during the Holocaust, and after the war Berger's new Christian parents asked a young Polish priest named Karol Wojtyla, the future Pope John Paul II, to baptise the boy. The future pope refused, claiming that the child should be raised in the Jewish faith of his birth parents and nation, not as a Catholic.[37] In September 2003, Emmanuelle Pacifici, the head of Italy's Jewish community, proposed that John Paul II receive the medal of a Righteous Among the Nations for saving a two-year-old Jewish boy by giving him to a Gentile Polish family to be hidden in 1942, when Karol Wojtyla was just a seminarian. After the war, this boy's Christian adopted parents asked the future Pope John Paul II to baptise the boy, yet once again he refused, as with Berger. After the war, Karol Wojtyla did everything he could to ensure that this Jewish boy he saved leave Poland to be raised by his Jewish relatives in the United States.[38] In April 2005, shortly after John Paul II's death, the Israeli government created a commission to honour the legacy of John Paul II. One of the proposed ways of honouring him was to give him the medal of the Righteous Among the Nations.[39] In Wojtyła's last book, Memory and Identity, he described the 12 years of the Nazi régime as 'bestiality',[40] quoting from the Polish theologian and philosopher Konstanty Michalski.[41]
Priesthood

After finishing his studies at the seminary in Kraków, Wojtyła was ordained as a priest on All Saints' Day, 1 November 1946,[20] by the Archbishop of Kraków, Cardinal Sapieha.[17][42][43] Sapieha sent Wojtyła to Rome's Pontifical International Athenaeum Angelicum, the future Pontifical University of Saint Thomas Aquinas, Angelicum to study under the French Dominican Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange beginning on 26 November 1946. Wojtyła earned a licence in July 1947, passed his doctoral exam on 14 June 1948, and successfully defended his doctoral thesis titled Doctrina de fide apud S. Ioannem a Cruce (The Doctrine of Faith in St. John of the Cross) in philosophy on 19 June 1948.[44] The Angelicum preserves the original copy of Wojtyła's typewritten thesis.[45] Among other courses at the Angelicum, Wojtyła studied Hebrew with the Dutch Dominican Peter G. Duncker, author of the Compendium grammaticae linguae hebraicae biblicae.[46]

According to Wojtyła's schoolmate the future Austrian Cardinal Alfons Stickler, in 1947 during his sojourn at the Angelicum Wojtyła visited Padre Pio, who heard his confession and told him that one day he would ascend to "the highest post in the Church".[47] Cardinal Stickler added that Wojtyła believed that the prophecy was fulfilled when he became a Cardinal.[48]

Wojtyła returned to Poland in the summer of 1948 for his first pastoral assignment in the village of Niegowić, fifteen miles (24 km) from Kraków, at the Church of the Assumption. He arrived at Niegowić at harvest time, where his first action was to kneel and kiss the ground.[49] He repeated this gesture, which he adapted from the French saint Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney,[49] throughout his papacy.
The Pontifical International Athenaeum Angelicum in Rome, Italy

In March 1949, Wojtyła was transferred to the parish of Saint Florian in Kraków. He taught ethics at Jagiellonian University and subsequently at the Catholic University of Lublin. While teaching, he gathered a group of about 20 young people, who began to call themselves Rodzinka, the "little family". They met for prayer, philosophical discussion, and to help the blind and sick. The group eventually grew to approximately 200 participants, and their activities expanded to include annual skiing and kayaking trips.[50]

In 1953, Wojtyła's habilitation thesis was accepted by the Faculty of Theology at the Jagiellonian University. In 1954, he earned a Doctorate in Sacred Theology,[51] evaluating the feasibility of a Catholic ethic based on the ethical system of the phenomenologist Max Scheler with a dissertation titled "Reevaluation of the possibility of founding a Catholic ethic on the ethical system of Max Scheler"[52] (Ocena możliwości zbudowania etyki chrześcijańskiej przy założeniach systemu Maksa Schelera).[53] Scheler was a German philosopher who founded a broad philosophical movement that emphasised the study of conscious experience. However, the Communist authorities abolished the Faculty of Theology at the Jagellonian University, thereby preventing him from receiving the degree until 1957.[43] Wojtyła developed a theological approach that combined traditional Catholic Thomism with the ideas of personalism, a philosophical approach deriving from phenomenology, which was popular among Catholic intellectuals in Kraków during Wojtyła's intellectual development. He translated Scheler's Formalism and the Ethics of Substantive Values.[54]

During this period, Wojtyła wrote a series of articles in Kraków's Catholic newspaper, Tygodnik Powszechny ("Universal Weekly"), dealing with contemporary church issues.[55] He focused on creating original literary work during his first dozen years as a priest. War, life under Communism, and his pastoral responsibilities all fed his poetry and plays. Wojtyła published his work under two pseudonyms—Andrzej Jawień and Stanisław Andrzej Gruda[25][55]—to distinguish his literary from his religious writings (under his own name), and also so that his literary works would be considered on their merits.[25][55] In 1960, Wojtyła published the influential theological book Love and Responsibility, a defence of traditional Church teachings on marriage from a new philosophical standpoint.[25][56]
"Wujek"

While a priest in Kraków, groups of students regularly joined Wojtyła for hiking, skiing, bicycling, camping and kayaking, accompanied by prayer, outdoor Masses and theological discussions. In Stalinist-era Poland, it was not permitted for priests to travel with groups of students. Father Wojtyła asked his younger companions to call him "Wujek" (Polish for "Uncle") to prevent outsiders from deducing he was a priest. The nickname gained popularity among his followers. In 1958, when Wojtyła was named auxiliary bishop of Kraków, his acquaintances expressed concern that this would cause him to change. Wojtyła responded to his friends, "Wujek will remain Wujek," and he continued to live a simple life, shunning the trappings that came with his position as Bishop. This beloved nickname stayed with Wojtyła for his entire life and continues to be affectionately used, particularly by the Polish people.[57][58]
Bishop and Cardinal
Pope John Paul I with then-Cardinal Karol Wojtyla at the Vatican on 4 September 1978

On 4 July 1958,[43] while Wojtyła was on a kayaking holiday in the lakes region of northern Poland, Pope Pius XII appointed him as the Auxiliary Bishop of Kraków. He was then summoned to Warsaw to meet the Primate of Poland, Stefan Cardinal Wyszyński, who informed him of his appointment.[59][60] He agreed to serve as Auxiliary Bishop to Kraków's Archbishop Eugeniusz Baziak, and he received episcopal consecration (as Titular Bishop of Ombi) on 28 September 1958. Baziak was the principal consecrator. Principal co-consecrators were then-Auxiliary Bishop Boleslaw Kominek (Titular Bishop of Sophene and Vaga; of the Catholic Archdiocese of Wrocław and future Cardinal Archbishop of Wrocław) and then-Auxiliary Bishop Franciszek Jop of the Catholic Diocese of Sandomierz (Titular Bishop of Daulia; later Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Wrocław and then Bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Opole).[43] At the age of 38, Wojtyła became the youngest bishop in Poland. Baziak died in June 1962 and on 16 July Wojtyła was selected as Vicar Capitular (temporary administrator) of the Archdiocese until an Archbishop could be appointed.[16][17]

In October 1962, Wojtyła took part in the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965),[16][43] where he made contributions to two of its most historic and influential products, the Decree on Religious Freedom (in Latin, Dignitatis Humanae) and the Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World (Gaudium et Spes).[43] Wojtyła and the Polish bishops contributed a draft text to the Council for Gaudium et Spes. According to the historian John W. O'Malley, the draft text Gaudium et Spes that Wojtyła and the Polish delegation sent "had some influence on the version that was sent to the council fathers that summer but was not accepted as the base text".[61] According to John F. Crosby, as pope, John Paul II used the words of Gaudium et Spes later to introduce his own views on the nature of the human person in relation to God: man is "the only creature on earth that God has wanted for its own sake", but man "can fully discover his true self only in a sincere giving of himself".[62]

He also participated in the assemblies of the Synod of Bishops.[16][17] On 13 January 1964, Pope Paul VI appointed him Archbishop of Kraków.[63] On 26 June 1967, Paul VI announced Archbishop Karol Wojtyła's promotion to the Sacred College of Cardinals.[43][63] Wojtyła was named Cardinal-Priest of the titulus of San Cesareo in Palatio.

In 1967, he was instrumental in formulating the encyclical Humanae vitae, which dealt with the same issues that forbid abortion and artificial birth control.[43][64][65]

In 1970, according to a contemporary witness, Cardinal Wojtyła was against the distribution of a letter around Kraków, stating that the Polish Episcopate was preparing for the 50th anniversary of the Polish-Soviet War.
Election to the papacy
Papal styles of
Pope John Paul II
John paul 2 coa.svg
Reference style His Holiness
Spoken style Your Holiness
Religious style Holy Father
Posthumous style Saint
Main article: Papal conclave, October 1978
The newly elected Pope John Paul II stands on the balcony at St. Peter's Basilica on 14 October 1978 in Vatican City.
The coat of arms of Pope John Paul II displaying the Marian Cross with the letter M signifying the Blessed Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus

In August 1978, following the death of Pope Paul VI, Cardinal Wojtyła voted in the Papal conclave, which elected Pope John Paul I. John Paul I died after only 33 days as pope, triggering another conclave.[17][43][66]

The second conclave of 1978 started on 14 October, ten days after the funeral. It was split between two strong candidates for the papacy: Giuseppe Cardinal Siri, the conservative Archbishop of Genoa, and the liberal Archbishop of Florence, Giovanni Cardinal Benelli, a close friend of John Paul I.[67]

Supporters of Benelli were confident that he would be elected, and in early ballots, Benelli came within nine votes of success.[67] However, both men faced sufficient opposition for neither to be likely to prevail. Giovanni Colombo, the Archbishop of Milan was considered as a compromise candidate among the Italian cardinal-electors, but when he started to receive votes, he announced that, if elected, he would decline to accept the papacy.[68] Franz Cardinal König, Archbishop of Vienna, suggested to his fellow electors another compromise candidate: the Polish Cardinal Karol Józef Wojtyła.[67] Wojtyła won on the eighth ballot on the third day (16 October) with, according to the Italian press, 99 votes from the 111 participating electors. He subsequently chose the name John Paul II[43][67] in honour of his immediate predecessor and also in honour of the late Pope Paul VI, and the traditional white smoke informed the crowd gathered in St. Peter's Square that a pope had been chosen. There had been rumours that the new pope wished to be known as Pope Stanislaus I in honour of the Polish saint of the name, but was convinced by the cardinals that it was not a Roman name.[66] He accepted his election with these words: 'With obedience in faith to Christ, my Lord, and with trust in the Mother of Christ and the Church, in spite of great difficulties, I accept.'[69][70] When the new pontiff appeared on the balcony, he broke tradition by addressing the gathered crowd:[69]

Dear brothers and sisters, we are saddened at the death of our beloved Pope John Paul I, and so the cardinals have called for a new bishop of Rome. They called him from a faraway land—far and yet always close because of our communion in faith and Christian traditions. I was afraid to accept that responsibility, yet I do so in a spirit of obedience to the Lord and total faithfulness to Mary, our most Holy Mother. I am speaking to you in your—no, our Italian language. If I make a mistake, please "correct" me .... [humorously mispronouncing the word "correct" by deliberately Latinizing it][71][69][72][73]

Wojtyła became the 264th pope according to the chronological list of popes, the first non-Italian in 455 years.[74] At only 58 years of age, he was the youngest pope since Pope Pius IX in 1846, who was 54.[43] Like his predecessor, John Paul II dispensed with the traditional Papal coronation and instead received ecclesiastical investiture with a simplified Papal inauguration on 22 October 1978. During his inauguration, when the cardinals were to kneel before him to take their vows and kiss his ring, he stood up as the Polish prelate Stefan Cardinal Wyszyński knelt down, stopped him from kissing the ring, and simply hugged him.[75]
Pastoral trips
Main article: List of pastoral visits of Pope John Paul II outside Italy
A Mexico City statue of Pope John Paul II with an image of the Virgin of Guadalupe made entirely of metal keys donated by the Mexican people[76]

During his pontificate, Pope John Paul II made trips to 129 countries,[77] travelling more than 1,100,000 kilometres (680,000 mi) while doing so. He consistently attracted large crowds, some among the largest ever assembled in human history, such as the Manila World Youth Day, which gathered up to four million people, the largest Papal gathering ever, according to the Vatican.[78][79] John Paul II's earliest official visits were to the Dominican Republic and Mexico in January 1979.[80] While some of his trips (such as to the United States and the Holy Land) were to places previously visited by Pope Paul VI, John Paul II became the first pope to visit the White House in October 1979, where he was greeted warmly by then-President Jimmy Carter. He was the first pope ever to visit several countries in one year, starting in 1979 with Mexico[81] and Ireland.[82] He was the first reigning pope to travel to the United Kingdom, in 1982, where he met Queen Elizabeth II, the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. While in England, he also visited Canterbury Cathedral and knelt in prayer with Robert Runcie, the Archbishop of Canterbury, at the spot where Thomas à Becket had been killed.[83]

He travelled to Haiti in 1983, where he spoke in Creole to thousands of impoverished Catholics gathered to greet him at the airport. His message, "things must change in Haiti," referring to the disparity between the wealthy and the poor, was met with thunderous applause.[84] In 2000, he was the first modern pope to visit Egypt,[85] where he met with the Coptic pope, Pope Shenouda III[85] and the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria.[85] He was the first Catholic pope to visit and pray in an Islamic mosque, in Damascus, Syria, in 2001. He visited the Umayyad Mosque, a former Christian church where John the Baptist is believed to be interred,[86] where he made a speech calling for Muslims, Christians and Jews to live together.[86]

On 15 January 1995, during the X World Youth Day, he offered Mass to an estimated crowd of between five and seven million in Luneta Park,[79] Manila, Philippines, which was considered to be the largest single gathering in Christian history.[79] In March 2000, while visiting Jerusalem, John Paul became the first pope in history to visit and pray at the Western Wall.[87][88] In September 2001, amid post-11 September concerns, he travelled to Kazakhstan, with an audience largely consisting of Muslims, and to Armenia, to participate in the celebration of 1,700 years of Armenian Christianity.[89]
First papal trip to Poland

In June 1979, Pope John Paul II travelled to Poland where ecstatic crowds constantly surrounded him.[90] This first papal trip to Poland uplifted the nation's spirit and sparked the formation of the Solidarity movement in 1980, which later brought freedom and human rights to his troubled homeland.[64] Poland's Communist leaders intended to use the Pope's visit to show the people that even though the Pope was Polish it did not alter their capacity to govern, oppress, and distribute the goods of society. They also hoped that if the Pope abided by the rules they set, that the Polish people would see his example and follow them as well. If the Pope's visit inspired a riot, the Communist leaders of Poland were prepared to crush the uprising and blame the suffering on the Pope.[91]

"The Pope won that struggle by transcending politics. His was what Joseph Nye calls 'soft power' — the power of attraction and repulsion. He began with an enormous advantage, and exploited it to the utmost: He headed the one institution that stood for the polar opposite of the Communist way of life that the Polish people hated. He was a Pole, but beyond the regime's reach. By identifying with him, Poles would have the chance to cleanse themselves of the compromises they had to make to live under the regime. And so they came to him by the millions. They listened. He told them to be good, not to compromise themselves, to stick by one another, to be fearless, and that God is the only source of goodness, the only standard of conduct. 'Be not afraid,' he said. Millions shouted in response, 'We want God! We want God! We want God!' The regime cowered. Had the Pope chosen to turn his soft power into the hard variety, the regime might have been drowned in blood. Instead, the Pope simply led the Polish people to desert their rulers by affirming solidarity with one another. The Communists managed to hold on as despots a decade longer. But as political leaders, they were finished. Visiting his native Poland in 1979, Pope John Paul II struck what turned out to be a mortal blow to its Communist regime, to the Soviet Empire, [and] ultimately to Communism."[91]

According to John Lewis Gaddis, one of the most influential historians of the Cold War, the trip led to the formation of Solidarity and would begin the process of Communism's demise in Eastern Europe:

When Pope John Paul II kissed the ground at the Warsaw airport he began the process by which Communism in Poland—and ultimately elsewhere in Europe—would come to an end.[92]

On later trips to Poland, he gave tacit support to the Solidarity organisation.[64] These visits reinforced this message and contributed to the collapse of East European Communism that took place between 1989/1990 with the reintroduction of democracy in Poland, and which then spread through Eastern Europe (1990–1991) and South-Eastern Europe (1990–1992).[72][77][90][93][94]
Teachings
A 1980 photo of John Paul II in Rome, Italy

As pope, John Paul II wrote 14 papal encyclicals and taught about sexuality in what is referred as the "Theology of the Body". Some key elements of his strategy to "reposition the Catholic Church" were encyclicals such as Ecclesia de Eucharistia, Reconciliatio et Paenitentia and Redemptoris Mater. In his At the beginning of the new millennium (Novo Millennio Ineunte), he emphasised the importance of "starting afresh from Christ": "No, we shall not be saved by a formula but by a Person." In The Splendour of the Truth (Veritatis Splendor), he emphasised the dependence of man on God and His Law ("Without the Creator, the creature disappears") and the "dependence of freedom on the truth". He warned that man "giving himself over to relativism and scepticism, goes off in search of an illusory freedom apart from truth itself". In Fides et Ratio (On the Relationship between Faith and Reason) John Paul promoted a renewed interest in philosophy and an autonomous pursuit of truth in theological matters. Drawing on many different sources (such as Thomism), he described the mutually supporting relationship between faith and reason, and emphasised that theologians should focus on that relationship. John Paul II wrote extensively about workers and the social doctrine of the Church, which he discussed in three encyclicals: Laborem exercens, Sollicitudo rei socialis, and Centesimus annus. Through his encyclicals and many Apostolic Letters and Exhortations, John Paul II talked about the dignity of women and the importance of the family for the future of humanity.[64] Other encyclicals include The Gospel of Life (Evangelium Vitae) and Ut Unum Sint (That They May Be One). Though critics accused him of inflexibility in explicitly re-asserting Catholic moral teachings against abortion and euthanasia that have been in place for well over a thousand years, he urged a more nuanced view of capital punishment.[64] In his second encyclical Dives in misericordia he stressed that divine mercy is the greatest feature of God, needed especially in modern times.
Moral stances
Main article: Social and political stances of Pope John Paul II

John Paul II was considered a conservative on doctrine and issues relating to human sexual reproduction and the ordination of women.[95]

While the Pope was visiting the United States of America he said, "All human life, from the moments of conception and through all subsequent stages, is sacred."[96]

Papal bull?

I think if you are honest you should think on vis a vis religion. But not too far past Confucious. ;)

"Confuscious he say: go to bed with itchy anus, wake up with smelly finger."

The teachings of Lao Tzu. ;)

"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves."

Lao Tzu

"Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself"

Confuscious he say...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJMxzx6UtCY

"Pay Rome only what Rome is owed, pay your "God", only what he is owned or "owed" likewise."

Jebus Christ. Circa 0AD or there or their abouts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLUEMj6cwA

"Blessed are the Greek for they shall inhibit their girth."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7aaw4g2tJo

We all pay the Piper, but can we all play the Piper?
thedoc
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by thedoc »

Lev Muishkin wrote:
thedoc wrote:
thedoc wrote:It was my impression (from watching the video) that the Pope was directing his remarks to his own people in the Catholic church as well as those of other religions. I didn't see him as excusing Catholics from being disrespectful of other religions.
I would say that this is just you speaking through your own bias.
Bias is the means by which people have opinions. And that is why the Pope thinks he is more important then anyone else.
If importance is gauged by how many people pay attention to what he says, then the Pope has a good shot at being the most important person on the planet. If you gauge importance by what he says, that is a different story, you choose.
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ReliStuPhD
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by ReliStuPhD »

Lev Muishkin wrote:The rest of your post is a sad reflection on your ignorance, and wilful blindness.
Thanks for the link on the RCC and AIDS. Useful info.

As for the quote, as usual, you're more than welcome to try and demonstrate your assertion, but until then, I'll rest easy in the knowledge that you're not up to the task.
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Lev Muishkin
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by Lev Muishkin »

thedoc wrote:
If importance is gauged by how many people pay attention to what he says, then the Pope has a good shot at being the most important person on the planet. If you gauge importance by what he says, that is a different story, you choose.
This all depends on the connotations of "important", and if the Pope is characterised not only by being listened to but having the ability to listen: something Popes are historically very poor at.
People listened to Ghengis Khan and Hitler too. It's not a measure that anything they say is true or helpful.
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ReliStuPhD
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by ReliStuPhD »

Lev Muishkin wrote:This all depends on the connotations of "important", and if the Pope is characterised not only by being listened to but having the ability to listen: something Popes are historically very poor at.
People listened to Ghengis Khan and Hitler too. It's not a measure that anything they say is true or helpful.
There's no inherent contradiction between holding that a person can be both important and unhelpful. If we take "important" to mean "of great significance or value; likely to have a profound effect on success, survival, or well-being," Hitler is undeniably important in the context of human history. Even if this or that Pope is lying through his teeth, he would still be considered "important." All that is to say that the word "important" is effectively value neutral. It's possible that the Pope would be correct to think of himself as "more important than anyone else." This would not, however, necessitate that one take this ultimate importance as a good thing.

All that to say, it's not the connotation of "important" that's key here, but one's understanding of that importance as a good or bad influence.
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by Lev Muishkin »

ReliStuPhD wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:This all depends on the connotations of "important", and if the Pope is characterised not only by being listened to but having the ability to listen: something Popes are historically very poor at.
People listened to Ghengis Khan and Hitler too. It's not a measure that anything they say is true or helpful.
There's no inherent contradiction between holding that a person can be both important and unhelpful. If we take "important" to mean "of great significance or value; likely to have a profound effect on success, survival, or well-being," Hitler is undeniably important in the context of human history. Even if this or that Pope is lying through his teeth, he would still be considered "important." All that is to say that the word "important" is effectively value neutral. It's possible that the Pope would be correct to think of himself as "more important than anyone else." This would not, however, necessitate that one take this ultimate importance as a good thing.

All that to say, it's not the connotation of "important" that's key here, but one's understanding of that importance as a good or bad influence.
Thanks for repeating what I said, but I think I made the point with fewer words.
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

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thedoc wrote:[

If importance is gauged by how many people pay attention to what he says, then the Pope has a good shot at being the most important person on the planet. If you gauge importance by what he says, that is a different story, you choose.
The leader of pedophile protecting gang of liars being investigated by so many countries for murder within Christian run schools and orphanages is bound to get a lot of press.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by ReliStuPhD »

Lev Muishkin wrote:
ReliStuPhD wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:This all depends on the connotations of "important", and if the Pope is characterised not only by being listened to but having the ability to listen: something Popes are historically very poor at.
People listened to Ghengis Khan and Hitler too. It's not a measure that anything they say is true or helpful.
There's no inherent contradiction between holding that a person can be both important and unhelpful. If we take "important" to mean "of great significance or value; likely to have a profound effect on success, survival, or well-being," Hitler is undeniably important in the context of human history. Even if this or that Pope is lying through his teeth, he would still be considered "important." All that is to say that the word "important" is effectively value neutral. It's possible that the Pope would be correct to think of himself as "more important than anyone else." This would not, however, necessitate that one take this ultimate importance as a good thing.

All that to say, it's not the connotation of "important" that's key here, but one's understanding of that importance as a good or bad influence.
Thanks for repeating what I said, but I think I made the point with fewer words.
Inasmuch as you argued that it "depends on the connotations of 'important'" and I argued that no such dependency exists, I'd say the extra words were warranted. ;)
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by Lev Muishkin »

ReliStuPhD wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:
ReliStuPhD wrote:
There's no inherent contradiction between holding that a person can be both important and unhelpful. If we take "important" to mean "of great significance or value; likely to have a profound effect on success, survival, or well-being," Hitler is undeniably important in the context of human history. Even if this or that Pope is lying through his teeth, he would still be considered "important." All that is to say that the word "important" is effectively value neutral. It's possible that the Pope would be correct to think of himself as "more important than anyone else." This would not, however, necessitate that one take this ultimate importance as a good thing.

All that to say, it's not the connotation of "important" that's key here, but one's understanding of that importance as a good or bad influence.
Thanks for repeating what I said, but I think I made the point with fewer words.
Inasmuch as you argued that it "depends on the connotations of 'important'" and I argued that no such dependency exists, I'd say the extra words were warranted. ;)
And yet you supplied your own connotations to write the post, this confirming everything I said.
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by ReliStuPhD »

Lev Muishkin wrote:And yet you supplied your own connotations to write the post, this confirming everything I said.
You're just not very good at this argumentation thing, are you? But fair enough. Next time, rather than trying a less confrontational approach, I'll just go ahead and call you out for not looking up a word in the dictionary before pontificating on its meaning. In that case, my original post would simply read "If you had bothered to look up the word, you'd see that 'important' means 'of great significance or value; likely to have a profound effect on success, survival, or well-being.' As such, it's not a case of 'connotations' at all because we're not speaking of 'an idea or feeling that a word invokes in addition to its literal or primary meaning' but the 'literal or primary meaning' itself."

So yeah, like I said (perhaps too politely), it has nothing to do with connotations.
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by thedoc »

ReliStuPhD wrote: So yeah, like I said (perhaps too politely), it has nothing to do with connotations.

Are you having fun yet?

I've heard that when banging your head against a brick wall, it feels so much better when you stop.
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by Lev Muishkin »

ReliStuPhD wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:And yet you supplied your own connotations to write the post, this confirming everything I said.
You're just not very good at this argumentation thing, are you? But fair enough. Next time, rather than trying a less confrontational approach, I'll just go ahead and call you out for not looking up a word in the dictionary before pontificating on its meaning. In that case, my original post would simply read "If you had bothered to look up the word, you'd see that 'important' means 'of great significance or value; likely to have a profound effect on success, survival, or well-being.' As such, it's not a case of 'connotations' at all because we're not speaking of 'an idea or feeling that a word invokes in addition to its literal or primary meaning' but the 'literal or primary meaning' itself."

So yeah, like I said (perhaps too politely), it has nothing to do with connotations.
Is that what you tell your bible study class?
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by ReliStuPhD »

thedoc wrote:
ReliStuPhD wrote: So yeah, like I said (perhaps too politely), it has nothing to do with connotations.
I've heard that when banging your head against a brick wall, it feels so much better when you stop.
I have. Call me naïve, but I try to give everyone a chance. Lev used three. I actually got one of the philosophy profs in our program to read over the other thread about the Kalam Cosmological Argument (he thinks the argument itself doesn't hold, so agreed to give the thread a once-over to see what sort of objections I'd get). Suffice it to say, he gave me a pat on the back for being so patient and said "Now you know how I feel teaching freshmen." :) (He was complimentary of Kayla and Gincko, though, so that's a good sign.) :)

I will say this, however, I think that whole "friend/foe" thing is kind of odd. A simple "ignore" button (or maybe a "philophaster" label) would work just as well and be far less antagonistic. I don't see Lev as a "foe," just someone who's not up to the challenge of debating philosophy, religion, or the philosophy of religion. But yes, the feature itself is certainly a time-saver.
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Re: Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Chri

Post by ReliStuPhD »

Greatest I am wrote:"As far as I can tell, you're arguing for some sort of hedonist morality (there are no desires that would be sins were one to act on them)."

Get the quote that you think show this foolishness.

Regards
DL
I was going on "Not my list as desires are not sins," but your objection gave me reason to reread what you wrote and I think I understand now. The phrasing threw me off.
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