Is the Pope slamming Islam for what the Vatican and Christia

[ReliStuPhD]

True but if they recognized all their guilt for all their ongoing crimes and constant lying to us, they would stop. They continue and show that they have no social conscience and are evil.

This is a matter of opinion. We can point to a good deal of what the RCC does that is demonstrably good and indicative of a social conscience. I'm willing to argue the RCC position concerning those things you consider evil or lacking of a social conscience (though I'm not Catholic, so my defense will only be an approximation), but it will be helpful if you'll spell out a few examples. I'm assuming pederasty will be on the list.

[Lev Muishkin]

True but if they recognized all their guilt for all their ongoing crimes and constant lying to us, they would stop. They continue and show that they have no social conscience and are evil.

This is a matter of opinion. We can point to a good deal of what the RCC does that is demonstrably good and indicative of a social conscience. I'm willing to argue the RCC position concerning those things you consider evil or lacking of a social conscience (though I'm not Catholic, so my defense will only be an approximation), but it will be helpful if you'll spell out a few examples. I'm assuming pederasty will be on the list.

How about spreading the lie that condoms increase the risk of AIDS?

What about the proscription of family planning in a world bursting with population and poverty?

The RCC provides nothing of use that it's followers could not provide for themselves by forming small groups and prayer meetings.
It preys on the gullible and collects billions from the poor to enrich itself and publicise itself.

[Blaggard]

All religions lie, they are filtered through the perceptions of a born liar, ie man.

[ReliStuPhD]

How about spreading the lie that condoms increase the risk of AIDS?

You'll have to link this one. I've never seen an official statement from the Vatican (or lesser RCC organization) to this effect.

What about the proscription of family planning in a world bursting with population and poverty?

This may be unwise, or even backwards, but how is it evil? It is certainly indicative of a social conscience. Even if it's one you and I do not share with the RCC, they would consider the unfettered procreative process to be a greater social good than bursting populations and poverty (and even this is terrible over-simplification of their position).

The RCC provides nothing of use that it's followers could not provide for themselves by forming small groups and prayer meetings. It preys on the gullible and collects billions from the poor to enrich itself and publicise itself.

This is your opinion. The RCC has a coherent theological rationale for its existence. Again, you (and perhaps I) may not find it convincing, but that is not evidence of "evil." You consider it to be a craven ploy, but they consider it to be a genuine commitment to humanity's salvation form eternal damnation. That is evidence of a social conscience and definitely not a sign of evil.

[thedoc]

It was my impression (from watching the video) that the Pope was directing his remarks to his own people in the Catholic church as well as those of other religions. I didn't see him as excusing Catholics from being disrespectful of other religions.

[Greatest I am]

True but if they recognized all their guilt for all their ongoing crimes and constant lying to us, they would stop. They continue and show that they have no social conscience and are evil.

This is a matter of opinion. We can point to a good deal of what the RCC does that is demonstrably good and indicative of a social conscience. I'm willing to argue the RCC position concerning those things you consider evil or lacking of a social conscience (though I'm not Catholic, so my defense will only be an approximation), but it will be helpful if you'll spell out a few examples. I'm assuming pederasty will be on the list.

Not my list as desires are not sins. Acting on that one becomes one in our society and I do include pedophiles on that list.

Sure there is some good being done by all mainstream religions but if they had justice in mind, we would not be living under systems that deny women and gays their right to equality.

That is my number one bug and will let others add to the list. I do have this that I sometimes give.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2zhlDbMfDg

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI

Jesus Camp 1of 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

Death to Gays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyuKLyGUHNE

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

[ The RCC has a coherent theological rationale for its existence. Again, you (and perhaps I) may not find it convincing, but that is not evidence of "evil." You consider it to be a craven ploy, but they consider it to be a genuine commitment to humanity's salvation form eternal damnation. That is evidence of a social conscience and definitely not a sign of evil.

Not when it is based on human sacrifice and man having to embrace the notion that it is somehow good for us to profit from the punishment and murder of an innocent man instead of the guilty.

No good can come from a religion with such an immoral base as substitutionary punishment.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

It was my impression (from watching the video) that the Pope was directing his remarks to his own people in the Catholic church as well as those of other religions. I didn't see him as excusing Catholics from being disrespectful of other religions.

Of course not. Showing that they are no better than others is not a part of his agenda.

Regards
DL

[ReliStuPhD]

Not when it is based on human sacrifice and man having to embrace the notion that it is somehow good for us to profit from the punishment and murder of an innocent man instead of the guilty.

First, the RCC's position is not based on "human sacrifice," properly understood. You're debating a strawman here, because Jesus' death on the Cross as understood by Xians is not human sacrifice. It is God "Him"self coming to Earth to die. You may not agree with the various propositions entailed by such a reality, but the point is that you're debating a misrepresentation of the Xian position. If you want to argue against the position as it would be presented by Xians, that's certainly reasonable, and perhaps even something I'd join in on. But the simple fact is that to refer to the Death and Resurrection of Jesus as "human sacrifice" is a strawman, and should not be taken seriously by anyone interesting in honest, open debate.

No good can come from a religion with such an immoral base as substitutionary punishment.

Insofar as we can point to good that has come from Xianity (and you yourself have assented to the proposition by acknowledging that "there is some good being done by all mainstream religions"), this is demonstrably false.


As for your longer, more general post...

As far as I can tell, you're arguing for some sort of hedonist morality (there are no desires that would be sins were one to act on them). We part company on this because I will insist that those who act on their desire to kill, rape, or maim are sinning (to use Xian terminology). And yes, I would include pedophilia in this. Hedonism is incoherent, so I'll wait until you've clarified your position to be sure I'm not debating a point you haven't made.

As for denying women and gays their equality, yes, we agree on this. The RCC would take a position that is internally coherent (and I can present that argument if you want), but I feel safe in saying neither you nor I find that position convincing, so I'll not waste my "breath" unless you're just interested to hear it. I also think we both agree that scriptural literalism is deeply problematic. In this respect, I would simply say that not all Xians are literalists. Your beef (and mine) with literalists is not a strawman per se, but it is definitely focusing on a weak expression of Xianity rather than the more robust ones that exist. Literalism is not orthodoxy, that much is sure.

I agree quite a bit with your closing statement about right-wingers hurting their parent religion, etc, etc, etc. The case I would then make is that perhaps you are looking to the wrong people as exemplars of religion. As I've suggested above, it's easy to pick off the low-hanging fruit. The real question is whether you can show the better fruit to be similarly poisonous. For my part, i find that a MUCH harder thing to do.

[Greatest I am]

"As far as I can tell, you're arguing for some sort of hedonist morality (there are no desires that would be sins were one to act on them)."

Get the quote that you think show this foolishness.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

"First, the RCC's position is not based on "human sacrifice,"

It is completely based on the human sacrifice of Jesus.

To say that God was the one to die on the cross would be silly as we all know that God cannot die.

Take Jesus' death and sacrifice out of the apostles creed and there is not Christianity.

Regards
DL

[thedoc]

It was my impression (from watching the video) that the Pope was directing his remarks to his own people in the Catholic church as well as those of other religions. I didn't see him as excusing Catholics from being disrespectful of other religions.

Of course not. Showing that they are no better than others is not a part of his agenda.

Regards
DL

I would say that this is just you speaking through your own bias.

[Greatest I am]

It was my impression (from watching the video) that the Pope was directing his remarks to his own people in the Catholic church as well as those of other religions. I didn't see him as excusing Catholics from being disrespectful of other religions.

Of course not. Showing that they are no better than others is not a part of his agenda.

Regards
DL

I would say that this is just you speaking through your own bias.

Of course. No one can get away from their biases.

The statement is still true regardless, unless you have something to refute it.

Regards
DL

[Lev Muishkin]

All religions lie, they are filtered through the perceptions of a born liar, ie man.

They are not filtered; they are generated, invented and reproduced my humans.
The worst of it is that belief overcomes intentional lies, and turns falsehood into acceptance.
The real danger is that those purveying lies think them truth.

[Lev Muishkin]

How about spreading the lie that condoms increase the risk of AIDS?

You'll have to link this one. I've never seen an official statement from the Vatican (or lesser RCC organization) to this effect.

What about the proscription of family planning in a world bursting with population and poverty?

This may be unwise, or even backwards, but how is it evil? It is certainly indicative of a social conscience. Even if it's one you and I do not share with the RCC, they would consider the unfettered procreative process to be a greater social good than bursting populations and poverty (and even this is terrible over-simplification of their position).

The RCC provides nothing of use that it's followers could not provide for themselves by forming small groups and prayer meetings. It preys on the gullible and collects billions from the poor to enrich itself and publicise itself.

This is your opinion. The RCC has a coherent theological rationale for its existence. Again, you (and perhaps I) may not find it convincing, but that is not evidence of "evil." You consider it to be a craven ploy, but they consider it to be a genuine commitment to humanity's salvation form eternal damnation. That is evidence of a social conscience and definitely not a sign of evil.

CONDOMS CAUSE AIDS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_C ... d_HIV/AIDS

The rest of your post is a sad reflection on your ignorance, and wilful blindness.