Ask an atheist..?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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attofishpi
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by attofishpi »

Lev Muishkin wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote: I do find it rather strange
that for a being believed to exist by over four billion people that there is nothing at all to suggest this beyond their own conviction
This might be interesting if they believed the same thing. They do not.
Er, if this 'thing' you are talking of is God, well actually yes they do.

Judaism - 14 million
Christianity - 2.2 Billion
Islam - 1.6 Billion
Hinduism - 1 Billion

Ultimately, they ALL believe in the same God.
...and some knowing of its existence through personal interaction.
Last edited by attofishpi on Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
thedoc
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by thedoc »

surreptitious57 wrote:I am an apatheist and that means that it makes precisely zero difference to me whether the entity known as God actually exists or
not and the reason for that is because it is something entirely beyond my control. And so those are things about which I should not
have an opinion on either way given that it is rather academic. Although having said that there is at this moment in time no actual
evidence for the existence of God. Now absence of evidence is not evidence of absence of course though I do find it rather strange
that for a being believed to exist by over four billion people that there is nothing at all to suggest this beyond their own conviction
absolute though it may be.
And this incidentally is why the goal posts get moved because if one cannot demonstrate the existence
of God by the same methodology one would for the existence of anything else then alternative means are invoked instead such as
so called other ways of knowing. Now these so called other ways are usually expressed in the form of logical fallacies specifically
arguments from emotion and popularity. The simple fact is however that there is no one who can categorically prove or disprove
the existence of God beyond all reasonable doubt and anyone who says otherwise is seriously deceiving themselves as it can only
be an open question. Though that does not mean that all possibilities are equal however. As some of them are statistically more
probable than others. But all of them can ultimately never be known as this is not something which science can actually answer
Sometimes there is only a small kernel of evidence and that is enough. Each person will receive what is needed to demonstrate the existence of God, whether they accept or reject this evidence is up to that person. Many years ago I witnessed an event that there was no explanation for within the known physical world, so that left the supernatural as an explanation, and for me that is enough. To attribute this event to the existence of God is much like a scientist accepting the existence of a Black Hole, what else could it be? No I'm not going to describe the event in detail because there are many skeptics who can provide many equally unsupported explanations, and frankly I'm not interested. I was there and have drawn my own conclusions, so why should I even consider a conclusion from someone based on my imperfect description of the event? So for me God exists but I have given up on trying to describe who God is and what God is like, God knows and for me that is enough.
thedoc
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by thedoc »

attofishpi wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote: I do find it rather strange
that for a being believed to exist by over four billion people that there is nothing at all to suggest this beyond their own conviction
This might be interesting if they believed the same thing. They do not.
Er, if this 'thing' you are talking of is God, well actually yes they do.

Christianity - 2.2 Billion
Islam - 1.6 Billion
Hinduism - 1 Billion

Ultimately, they ALL believe in the same God.
...and some knowing of its existence through personal interaction.

I believe you missed Judaism, though I don't know how many there are, and also Buddhism could be included, depending on who you talk to, (like me).
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attofishpi
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by attofishpi »

thedoc wrote:I believe you missed Judaism, though I don't know how many there are, and also Buddhism could be included, depending on who you talk to, (like me).
Ah yes sorry Doc - the number was just a tad small.
In 2012, the world Jewish population was estimated at about 14 million, or roughly 0.2% of the total world population.
thedoc
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by thedoc »

attofishpi wrote:
thedoc wrote:I believe you missed Judaism, though I don't know how many there are, and also Buddhism could be included, depending on who you talk to, (like me).
Ah yes sorry Doc - the number was just a tad small.
In 2012, the world Jewish population was estimated at about 14 million, or roughly 0.2% of the total world population.

I didn't bring it up because of the numbers, I just wanted to be polite.
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attofishpi
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by attofishpi »

thedoc wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
thedoc wrote:I believe you missed Judaism, though I don't know how many there are, and also Buddhism could be included, depending on who you talk to, (like me).
Ah yes sorry Doc - the number was just a tad small.
In 2012, the world Jewish population was estimated at about 14 million, or roughly 0.2% of the total world population.

I didn't bring it up because of the numbers, I just wanted to be polite.
Yes i know...it was because of the numbers that i missed it...in a listing i read....i included it not just to be polite to the Jews, whom i have a lot of respect for.
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Lev Muishkin
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by Lev Muishkin »

attofishpi wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote: I do find it rather strange
that for a being believed to exist by over four billion people that there is nothing at all to suggest this beyond their own conviction
This might be interesting if they believed the same thing. They do not.
Er, if this 'thing' you are talking of is God, well actually yes they do.

Judaism - 14 million
Christianity - 2.2 Billion
Islam - 1.6 Billion
Hinduism - 1 Billion

Ultimately, they ALL believe in the same God.
...and some knowing of its existence through personal interaction.
Hindus don't believe in the same god as fucking Hindus.
And you are trying to pretend that the Abrahamic religions agree. How stupid can you get?

You you don't even know what it is that YOU are supposed to believe.

SO you post is meaningless.
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attofishpi
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by attofishpi »

Lev Muishkin wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:This might be interesting if they believed the same thing. They do not.
Er, if this 'thing' you are talking of is God, well actually yes they do.

Judaism - 14 million
Christianity - 2.2 Billion
Islam - 1.6 Billion
Hinduism - 1 Billion

Ultimately, they ALL believe in the same God.
...and some knowing of its existence through personal interaction.
Hindus don't believe in the same god as fucking Hindus.
And you are trying to pretend that the Abrahamic religions agree. How stupid can you get?

You you don't even know what it is that YOU are supposed to believe.

SO you post is meaningless.
Lev, please calm down, i've underlined the areas where i think you are starting to flail.

Next you will be telling me that the shia dont believe in the same God as the sunnis.

Not agreeing on things between religions IS the stuff of religions...none of it assists in comprehending the one thing we all believe in...God! :D
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Lev Muishkin
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by Lev Muishkin »

attofishpi wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:
attofishpi wrote: Er, if this 'thing' you are talking of is God, well actually yes they do.

Judaism - 14 million
Christianity - 2.2 Billion
Islam - 1.6 Billion
Hinduism - 1 Billion

Ultimately, they ALL believe in the same God.
...and some knowing of its existence through personal interaction.
Hindus don't believe in the same god as fucking Hindus.
And you are trying to pretend that the Abrahamic religions agree. How stupid can you get?

You you don't even know what it is that YOU are supposed to believe.

SO you post is meaningless.
Lev, please calm down, i've underlined the areas where i think you are starting to flail.

Next you will be telling me that the shia dont believe in the same God as the sunnis.

Not agreeing on things between religions IS the stuff of religions...none of it assists in comprehending the one thing we all believe in...God! :D
No the Shia god is an entity which supports Shia, and the SUnni God is one that supports Sunni.
The Sunni god considers the Shia infidels, and the Shia god considers the Sunni infidels.
Same goes for Catholic, Protestant, and Unitarian (who think the trinity is heretical).

So, these people do not believe in the same thing.
thedoc
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by thedoc »

Often when different people describe a thing there will be different descriptions of that thing, sometimes contradictory due to emphasizing different aspects of the object that is being described. It's the same with different religions describing God, different religions will have a different emphasis and value different aspects of God, sometimes contradictory. Differences in description do not indicate a different God, only the human failing in perception.

Scientists are constantly discovering that the universe does not behave according to human beliefs. Likewise why should God be expected to be what humans expect God to be.

Isaiah 55-8 New International Version (NIV)

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by mtmynd1 »

thedoc wrote:Often when different people describe a thing there will be different descriptions of that thing, sometimes contradictory due to emphasizing different aspects of the object that is being described. It's the same with different religions describing God, different religions will have a different emphasis and value different aspects of God, sometimes contradictory. Differences in description do not indicate a different God, only the human failing in perception.

Scientists are constantly discovering that the universe does not behave according to human beliefs. Likewise why should God be expected to be what humans expect God to be.

Isaiah 55-8 New International Version (NIV)

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
Well said, thedoc. Especially your comment, "Scientists are constantly discovering that the universe does not behave according to human beliefs. Likewise why should God be expected to be what humans expect God to be."

Far too many of those who believe in religion seem to avoid or simply have no ideas about a God they purportedly believe in. Religion DOES NOT own God. Any concept of GOD would have to encompass everything, having been created by (a) GOD. This absolute transcends even our hu'man mind and body to comprehend anything that encompasses all that is, all that has been and all that will become. Any GOD worth it's word and concept also transcends our meaning of TIME, INFINITY or any other (need for) measurements of any kind. (Why would any GOD have a purpose to measure what that GOD has conceived to be?)
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Lev Muishkin
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by Lev Muishkin »

thedoc wrote:Often when different people describe a thing there will be different descriptions of that thing, sometimes contradictory due to emphasizing different aspects of the object that is being described. It's the same with different religions describing God, different religions will have a different emphasis and value different aspects of God, sometimes contradictory. Differences in description do not indicate a different God, only the human failing in perception.

Scientists are constantly discovering that the universe does not behave according to human beliefs. Likewise why should God be expected to be what humans expect God to be.

Isaiah 55-8 New International Version (NIV)

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
Science does not believe in the universe. It is a method by which different models are used to describe it. The god method has been long abandoned except by those with no respect for reason and evidence.
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by Blaggard »

attofishpi wrote:
Next you will be telling me that the shia dont believe in the same God as the sunnis.

Not agreeing on things between religions IS the stuff of religions...none of it assists in comprehending the one thing we all believe in...God! :D

And let's not get started on the Suffists.

"There is no division in Islam."

Really there is no division in religion Mohammed, did you bang your head against a mountain when it came to you at light speed? ;)

God is perfect, if he is and if Jebus is he should get off his fat arse and stop creating humanity. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism

Don't get me started on the Kaballah either, all religions basically have their bullshit, if it's god work filtered through the minds of any God, he fucked up because he's not really talking to us..

It's not necessarily humans who are at fault in religion they can surpass life and die if they so choose. But they choose not to.

Jesus I think is like a troll, he doesn't really exist and if he did, he would of used a better medium than man, and then patronised the hell out of him for I can only presume: shits and giggles.

Now I am an angry angry man, like any lapsed "Christian" but by God and the church I don't wan appologetics. There's been enough of that and they like my post are just rants. :P
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attofishpi
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by attofishpi »

Lev Muishkin wrote:
attofishpi wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:Hindus don't believe in the same god as fucking Hindus.
And you are trying to pretend that the Abrahamic religions agree. How stupid can you get?

You you don't even know what it is that YOU are supposed to believe.

SO you post is meaningless.
Lev, please calm down, i've underlined the areas where i think you are starting to flail.

Next you will be telling me that the shia dont believe in the same God as the sunnis.

Not agreeing on things between religions IS the stuff of religions...none of it assists in comprehending the one thing we all believe in...God! :D
No the Shia god is an entity which supports Shia, and the SUnni God is one that supports Sunni.
The Sunni god considers the Shia infidels, and the Shia god considers the Sunni infidels.
Same goes for Catholic, Protestant, and Unitarian (who think the trinity is heretical).

So, these people do not believe in the same thing.
Again you are getting caught up in the semantics of religion, which is only man's interpretation of the one God.

As i have stated to another atheist upon this forum, believing in different religions does not change the state of God.
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attofishpi
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Re: Ask an atheist..?

Post by attofishpi »

Lev Muishkin wrote:Science does not believe in the universe. It is a method by which different models are used to describe it. The god method has been long abandoned except by those with no respect for reason and evidence.
Science knows the universe exists as any scientifically qualified\or not, theist is also aware. Don't get on your high horse with your ill conceived idea that atheism is the only bastion of logic and reason.
If you are up to the challenge i will take you on in this thread:-

An argument for the existence of God.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9390
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