do flys go to heaven

[Blaggard]

Does dental plaque go to heaven?

Of course it does everything does, it's the 21st century even you will be there one day, although God knows why. j/k

[jackles]

it bobs tooth plack could be hanging around the local universe in a glass jar for billions of years before it finds its way back to nothing.

[Mike Strand]

Blaggard suggested we define heaven. Here's a possible definition:

Heaven is the escape from mortal life (biological life on earth) to a state of eternal rest and peace.

With this definition, even a life form with (supposedly) no life after mortal death (e.g. a fly or an Ebola virus) will go to heaven, provided that "eternal rest and peace" is defined as oblivion (nonexistence after mortal death).

Therefore, answering the question, "Do flies go to heaven?" depends on the meaning of "heaven".

For life forms that have a life after mortal death, going to heaven may depend on their behavior on earth, according to many religions or belief systems. Some individuals may go to a place of suffering (hell). Some (maybe human individuals) may, therefore, prefer oblivion to suffering in hell.

[jackles]

Mike i everything goes to heaven even sand grains. If sand grains go to heaven then so for sure flys do. If everything dont go to heaven wheres it going to go. Ha

[attofishpi]

Mike i everything goes to heaven even sand grains. If sand grains go to heaven then so for sure flys do. If everything dont go to heaven wheres it going to go. Ha

Another life in the paddies?

For the rice...ive got to write small just in case the flies get the ability of understanding the English language..cos they're gonna return to my existence and really piss me off.

[thedoc]

Mike i everything goes to heaven even sand grains. If sand grains go to heaven then so for sure flys do. If everything dont go to heaven wheres it going to go. Ha

A few years before he passed away, my father and I were having a conversation and the subject came around to Heaven. It seems someone told him that in Heaven everyone would spend all day and night bowing down and worshiping God, and singing Hallelujah. Then he said "If that is what Heaven is, I'm not sure I want to go there". I really didn't know what to say, I still don't, except to say that that idea is probably wrong, and only one person's delusion.

[Mike Strand]

Jackles: If sand is unconscious, and if we define heaven as being unconscious and unaware of one's own existence (sort of like a coma or deep sleep), then I agree you could say even sand goes to heaven (or is already there). This differs from oblivion, which may be defined as nonexistence.

thedoc: I have to agree with your father -- that definition of heaven is off-putting.

Discussions like these depend heavily on the meanings of words in the minds of those in the discussion. Many of the words never get clearly defined for all the participants. So any statements or assertions are hard to verify or refute. It's hard to say something exists, or has this or that characteristic, or this or that implication, if the something isn't defined. But I'm not saying such discussions can't be entertaining.

I refer the participants in this topic to the concept of ignosticism (igtheism)

[jackles]

Heaven is the nonlocal self so everything goes to you your spirit. Sand grains and everything else including your own body is illusion. Everthing goes back into spirit where it came from otherwise there would be stuff left over hanging about in nonlocality. Local stuff is illusion. Love is neutral and nonlocal.

[Mike Strand]

Jackles, thanks for your definition of "heaven".

Taking your definition, if everything has a nonlocal self, then at least those things with mortal life, when they die biologically, may still exist as a nonlocal self, assuming the nonlocal self doesn't also die. Is that the sense in which you or I or a fly would return to heaven? Is it a place of happiness and joy? You may need to assume that the nonlocal self is eternal and indestructible, at least for heaven to be an eternal state.

About sand: How does it cease to exist in its physical illusory form (the one we're familiar with)? Or is death for sand even necessary (provided you can define "dead sand") for sand to go to heaven (its nonlocal self). Will the sand experience joy? Or maybe it's already in heaven -- sort of like eternal "rest and peace", being unconscious (another assumption). Then, since the molecules (atoms, electrons, protons, etc.) that make up your body are kind of like sand, maybe you're already in heaven, too?

Your definition of heaven needs fleshing out, I think, and then a reader might work out implications that are clearer than the ones I'm toying with above.

[jackles]

Well the physical locality of say sand grains or anything else is presentation of nolocality. The feeling of life is nolocality experiencing its self as locality. In other words everything was originally you the observer. The observer exists without form as locality in eternity . Flip over a stone on any beach and you exists under that stone because the you exists as nothing . If you the observer travels say from newyork to paris the you which is you dosnt change because of the change in locality in anyway because the nolocal you exist in all locations. You is not just some random identity on a lost planet in a galaxy that chats to other yous on forums like this one. Yous are nolocal and indistinguishable and exist under stones that are fliped over on beaches on all oceans on all planets in all galaxes in all locations. If you could flip a galaxy over you would be there in the exact same way as if you flip a stone on the beach. nonlocality

[Ginkgo]

Well the physical locality of say sand grains or anything else is presentation of nolocality. The feeling of life is nolocality experiencing its self as locality. In other words everything was originally you the observer. The observer exists without form as locality in eternity . Flip over a stone on any beach and you exists under that stone because the you exists as nothing . If you the observer travels say from newyork to paris the you which is you dosnt change because of the change in locality in anyway because the nolocal you exist in all locations. You is not just some random identity on a lost planet in a galaxy that chats to other yous on forums like this one. Yous are nolocal and indistinguishable and exist under stones that are fliped over on beaches on all oceans on all planets in all galaxes in all locations. If you could flip a galaxy over you would be there in the exact same way as if you flip a stone on the beach. nonlocality

If this were the case then we would only ever know this thing we call non-locality. Clearly this is not the case because there is locality. In other words, there appears to be such a thing as local realism.

[jackles]

Well ginkgo I reckon you(nonlocality) have hit the nail right on its head here. Everything is you nonlocality as virtue experiencing the local event. Or lost in the locality as vice attachment to it. Virtue is nolocality. A sand grain is neutral as is virtue. Vice is virtue attached to the event. So vice is attachment.

[thedoc]

I think the big question is if a fly dies and goes to Heaven, does the Soul of the fly do so as a fly? Or is the soul somehow transformed into some conscious, intelligent spiritual being? If I die and go to Heaven will my soul be able to have a conversation with the Soul of a fly?

[thedoc]

I'm just thankful that Cyber Heaven is separate from Organic Heaven. That way all the dead computers, calculators, toasters and other electronic devices will have their own place to hang out, and I won't be bothered by cell phones.

[jackles]

Thedoc . Heaven is you. And local sandgrains and flys must go back heavens singularity . The expression of everything goes back from location to nonlocation which your consciousness is already a part of . Conversation only exists in a local sense. It conversation is not needed as no time or action or moving thing exists back there in nolocation.