Four facts you should know about the bible.

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Kuznetzova
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Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by Kuznetzova »

(1) There is nothing in the Old Testament that dovetails with any history prior to the 14th century B.C.

(2) No text in the Old Testament references lands, Kings, peoples, languages, or empires that were not in the Levant or directly adjacent to it.

(3) The kingdom of David and Solomon was a backwater. Even at its zenith, it was never large enough to be an empire.

(4) The books that are considered canonical differ between Catholic, Protestant, and eastern Orthodox bibles. Some of these canon issues were not settled until the 16th century A.D.

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(1) There is nothing in the Old Testament that dovetails with any history prior to the 14th century B.C.

The oldest stories of the Bible which could possibly dovetail with history is the exodus from Egypt and Book of Joshua (essentially the invasion of Jericho) and the Book of Judges. This means the Bible conspicuously leaves out written history of the Minoan civilization, all the Hittite Empire, and all of Mycenaean civilization, Akkadia, as well as a large part of the first nineteen dynasties of Egypt. Every single last one of those civilizations and empires used written language and had written history. Taken at face value, the Old Testament suggests the world began in the middle Bronze age. (I have already posted articles on this forum that the bible is a history of the Jewish people, not of all humanity. There are plain passages in the bible implying that the world already was "peopled" when the garden of Eden narrative took place.)

(2) No text in the Old Testament references lands, Kings, peoples, languages, or empires that were not in the Levant or directly adjacent to it.

This is a severe weakness for any evangelical creationist who might claim that the bible is a history of "all of humanity". China is not mentioned. Japan is left out, as well as northern Europe, Western Europe, southeast Asia, sub-saharan Africa, all of India, and North and South American continents.


(3) The kingdom of David and Solomon was a backwater. Even at its zenith, it was never large enough to be an empire.


Perhaps the most pervasive and widespread lie in popular history - is that the Judaic kingdom of David and Solomon was an empire. It was never nearly large enough to be so. Judea was never a central hub of literature, science, or technology. Israelites lagged behind the rest of the world on these measures. Ancient Israel was conquered by the real contemporary empires several times. We know that both Egypt and the Philistines were in open military conflict with Israelites, and that Israel never successfully defeated the Philistines (themselves little more than a collection of towns), but instead warred with them to an awkward stand-still. The military defeats of Israel by outside empires is a laundry list of failures.

1214 BC. King Merneptah of Egypt "lays waste" to Israel.
740 BC. Assyria defeats Israel turning them into a tribute mill.
597 BC. Babylon successfully sieges Jerusalem, and taking the conquered survivors as slaves.
73 AD Titus of Rome burns Jerusalem and its temple to the ground, following a revolt.
136 AD Hadrian of Rome destroys most of the province of Judea, and deports its population. The area is renamed to "Palestine."




(4) The books that are considered canonical differ between Catholic, Protestant, and eastern Orthodox bibles. Some of these canon issues were not settled until the 16th century A.D.

Apocryphal writings of the OT include the Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees. Non-canonical gospels include Gospel of Judas, and Gospel of Thomas. It is not the case that some permanent canon was set in stone by an ecumenical counsel of the early Christian church. Rather, this thing called "The Bible" has been mutated and trans-mutated several times through the centuries, particularly in times of increased literacy in Europe. The Bible was stored and handed down in latin vulgate language until its translation into the European vernaculars far into the Protestant Reformation. In some cases, these apocryphal writings have been verified through archeological evidence. (eg. Dead Sea scrolls contain portions of Enoch).
jackles
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by jackles »

the new testament is a testament of conscience.jesus is always refering to consciousness awareness and its relativeness to the creator consciousness.the lost soul is the lost sheep that wonders of in to the event as reality which is fallen conscience .it returns from that abbiss to be at one with conscience.or basically sex without love is the fallen state a precurser to other evils and lies.
MMasz
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by MMasz »

Kuznetzova wrote:(1) There is nothing in the Old Testament that dovetails with any history prior to the 14th century B.C. blah, blah, blah
Wow!!! You should publish this! You might even receive a Pulitzer prize for journalist discovery!

But seriously. Why waste bandwidth on this?
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by bobevenson »

The fifth fact is that the first 65 books of the Bible are merely wrapping paper for Revelation, the 66th (an Ouzo combination that the word mankind adds up to in English gematria simplex (A=1 to Z=26)), to keep it from getting lost, like a small item that is shrink-wrapped to a large piece of cardboard to keep it from falling through your shopping cart.
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

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Kuznetzova wrote:(1) There is nothing in the Old Testament that dovetails with any history prior to the 14th century B.C.

(2) No text in the Old Testament references lands, Kings, peoples, languages, or empires that were not in the Levant or directly adjacent to it.

(3) The kingdom of David and Solomon was a backwater. Even at its zenith, it was never large enough to be an empire.

(4) The books that are considered canonical differ between Catholic, Protestant, and eastern Orthodox bibles. Some of these canon issues were not settled until the 16th century A.D.

__

...snip...


(4) The books that are considered canonical differ between Catholic, Protestant, and eastern Orthodox bibles. Some of these canon issues were not settled until the 16th century A.D.

Apocryphal writings of the OT include the Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees. Non-canonical gospels include Gospel of Judas, and Gospel of Thomas. It is not the case that some permanent canon was set in stone by an ecumenical counsel of the early Christian church. Rather, this thing called "The Bible" has been mutated and trans-mutated several times through the centuries, particularly in times of increased literacy in Europe. The Bible was stored and handed down in latin vulgate language until its translation into the European vernaculars far into the Protestant Reformation. In some cases, these apocryphal writings have been verified through archeological evidence. (eg. Dead Sea scrolls contain portions of Enoch).
Thanks, K. Its clear the Judeo-Christian bible is relatively recent, no earlier than 15th Century BC. What are the implications of these accepted facts for the philosophy of religion?

Also, I have a related question, maybe you could answer it. How receptive should believers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism be to the concept of Abram of Ur being their common spiritual father? I realize this is more of a theological question, however its radical enough to mention here. What do you think? - CW
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

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[quote="chasw”] Also, I have a related question, maybe you could answer it. How receptive should believers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism be to the concept of Abram of Ur being their common spiritual father? I realize this is more of a theological question, however its radical enough to mention here. What do you think? - CW[/quote]

The Bible states that Abram is the father of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Why do you think that’s radical?
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by chasw »

MMasz wrote:[quote="chasw”] Also, I have a related question, maybe you could answer it. How receptive should believers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism be to the concept of Abram of Ur being their common spiritual father? I realize this is more of a theological question, however its radical enough to mention here. What do you think? - CW
The Bible states that Abram is the father of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Why do you think that’s radical?[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote] Where in the bible does it state the three religions share this common root? Islam began long after the Judeo-Christian bible was assembled. In any event, when I try out my"seed of Abraham" concept on fundamentalist Christians, they balk at including Islam. Too radical for further discussion. They are OK with the idea that Jesus and his early followers were Jews who traced their heritage back to Abraham/Abram. Jesus explicitly embraced the law handed down from Moses. Instead, these Christians think of Islam as a very different religion, stemming from an alien tribal culture. Few of them are aware that Islam considers Jesus a prophet.

I'm not sure about modern Jewish believers and how they would react, its possible their enmity toward modern Muslims blinds them to the historical facts. The same goes for modern Muslims. Maybe someone here can comment on that part. - CW
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Kuznetzova
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by Kuznetzova »

chasw wrote:Also, I have a related question, maybe you could answer it. How receptive should believers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism be to the concept of Abram of Ur being their common spiritual father? I realize this is more of a theological question, however its radical enough to mention here. What do you think? - CW
So the Islamic Republic of Iran is a muslim theocracy ruled by Shiite clerics. The State of Israel is a theocracy ruled by Jewish Zionists. Iran is pointing long-range missiles at Israel. Israel is pointing nuclear ICBMs at Iran.

All the while, the name Allah, and the name Jehovah refer to the same deity.
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by MMasz »

chasw wrote:
MMasz wrote:[quote="chasw”] Also, I have a related question, maybe you could answer it. How receptive should believers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism be to the concept of Abram of Ur being their common spiritual father? I realize this is more of a theological question, however its radical enough to mention here. What do you think? - CW
The Bible states that Abram is the father of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Why do you think that’s radical?
[/quote][/quote][/quote] Where in the bible does it state the three religions share this common root? Islam began long after the Judeo-Christian bible was assembled. In any event, when I try out my"seed of Abraham" concept on fundamentalist Christians, they balk at including Islam. Too radical for further discussion. They are OK with the idea that Jesus and his early followers were Jews who traced their heritage back to Abraham/Abram. Jesus explicitly embraced the law handed down from Moses. Instead, these Christians think of Islam as a very different religion, stemming from an alien tribal culture. Few of them are aware that Islam considers Jesus a prophet.

I'm not sure about modern Jewish believers and how they would react, its possible their enmity toward modern Muslims blinds them to the historical facts. The same goes for modern Muslims. Maybe someone here can comment on that part. - CW[/quote][/quote][/quote]

If you read about Abram, he had a child, Ishmael, with Rachel’s (his wife) servant, Hagar prior to Isaac being born. Hagar and Ishmael were turned out form the clan. Islam traces their roots back to the line of Ishmael, hence the connection. The Judaism link is commonly known and accepted. The fact that Islam didn’t start until Mohammed came along in the 7th century points to the illegitimacy of that religion.

I don’t see where you are having difficulty with this.
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

Jews did not exodus from Egypt, they were never there in the first place.
The whole story is idiotic.
The Bible is ignorant of the name of the Pharaoh. That ought to be enough to raise suspicions that the story of a fabrication. It is also deeply ignorant of basic facts concerning Egypt
Biblical scholars can argue until they are blue in the face about which Pharaoh expelled the Jews - the fact is that it just did not happen.
There has never been found by the masses of archaeological surveys in Egypt a single item that can be identified as Jewish.

The fact is that Judaism is not a primary religion, it is not even a Bronze Age religion, it is an early Iron Age religion born in the Levant and the Bible is nothing more that a cheap foundational myth. The reason Egypt is mentioned is due to the need for the Jews to associate themselves with the Greatest Power on earth a the time.
And to find common cause with their neighbours in constant conflict with it.
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

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Hobbes' Choice wrote:The Bible is nothing more that a cheap foundational myth.
You forgot to exclude book of Revelation, but then you forget a lot of things.
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

MMasz wrote:
chasw wrote:
MMasz wrote:[quote="chasw”] Also, I have a related question, maybe you could answer it. How receptive should believers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism be to the concept of Abram of Ur being their common spiritual father? I realize this is more of a theological question, however its radical enough to mention here. What do you think? - CW
The Bible states that Abram is the father of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Why do you think that’s radical?
[/quote][/quote] Where in the bible does it state the three religions share this common root? Islam began long after the Judeo-Christian bible was assembled. In any event, when I try out my"seed of Abraham" concept on fundamentalist Christians, they balk at including Islam. Too radical for further discussion. They are OK with the idea that Jesus and his early followers were Jews who traced their heritage back to Abraham/Abram. Jesus explicitly embraced the law handed down from Moses. Instead, these Christians think of Islam as a very different religion, stemming from an alien tribal culture. Few of them are aware that Islam considers Jesus a prophet.

I'm not sure about modern Jewish believers and how they would react, its possible their enmity toward modern Muslims blinds them to the historical facts. The same goes for modern Muslims. Maybe someone here can comment on that part. - CW[/quote][/quote][/quote]

If you read about Abram, he had a child, Ishmael, with Rachel’s (his wife) servant, Hagar prior to Isaac being born. Hagar and Ishmael were turned out form the clan. Islam traces their roots back to the line of Ishmael, hence the connection. The Judaism link is commonly known and accepted. The fact that Islam didn’t start until Mohammed came along in the 7th century points to the illegitimacy of that religion.

I don’t see where you are having difficulty with this.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

If you read The Hobbit you will find that Bilbo Baggins met with "goblins", these were later associated with Orcs in LOTR. this is why Gary Gygax does not separate them as different species.
Also Goblins ride on wolf-like Wargs. Is it not a fact that Wargs also have sharp teeth and a related to the dog/wolf genus? Surely this is an example of them sharing a genealogy?

I don't see why you think Middle Earth is a Myth.
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

bobevenson wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:The Bible is nothing more that a cheap foundational myth.
You forgot to exclude book of Revelation, but then you forget a lot of things.
I don't need to forget it. As you might see in other threads I have quoted it extensively.
Revelations is a drug induced fantasy written under the influence of mushrooms.
Image

Drugs are the source of most religions/myths
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by Hobbes' Choice »

MMasz wrote: The Bible states that Abram is the father of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Why do you think that’s radical?
It neither radical nor is it correct.

The bible does not state that Abram is the father of ANY religion except maybe the Jewish delusion.
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Re: Four facts you should know about the bible.

Post by bobevenson »

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
bobevenson wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:The Bible is nothing more that a cheap foundational myth.
You forgot to exclude book of Revelation, but then you forget a lot of things.
Revelations is a drug induced fantasy written under the influence of mushrooms.
Do you mind stating your reference?
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