Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

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Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

People who believe in the barbaric human blood sacrifice of the Triune Jesus/God must believe that the greatest force ever to exist decided that humans, lowly creations whom we are told are infinitely inferior to God, are somehow more important than God’s own life and that he would give it up for believers.

That is like a slave master dying in place of his slave. A rather silly notion to me.

Jesus preached that we should develop a humble character with little self-pride.

How is placing your own life above Triune Jesus/God’s showing a humble character as you think that he would die for you? That is taking self-pride to the maximum.

I think that those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

Yet Christians who think they are moral will believe that God would do such a despicable thing as having his son killed even as scriptures say that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and does not believe in asking or accepting a ransom.

Is thinking that to believe that God would die for you the epitome of an inflated ego?

If not, what could possibly inflate an ego more than that?

Regards
DL
jinx
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by jinx »

Well you have rejected Jesus so you and i have nothing in common (except we both share a common ancestor with Adam and Eve though you are living in a state of denial), seeing as though by default if someone rejects Jesus they must believe in the evo myth you believe a huge number of organisms died so you could live. Of course evo exists only in the mind, not in science so to each his own religion.

Is thinking that to believe that a huge number of organisms would die for you the epitome of an inflated ego?
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Greatest I am »

jinx wrote:Well you have rejected Jesus so you and i have nothing in common (except we both share a common ancestor with Adam and Eve though you are living in a state of denial), seeing as though by default if someone rejects Jesus they must believe in the evo myth you believe a huge number of organisms died so you could live. Of course evo exists only in the mind, not in science so to each his own religion.

Is thinking that to believe that a huge number of organisms would die for you the epitome of an inflated ego?
Who has rejected Jesus?
Not I, depending on the Jesus.

I like the one shown here but that Jesus is closer to the real Jesus, if he ever lived.
Yet you do not follow your scripture enough to seek him out and seem to prefer the notion of barbaric human sacrifice and the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

That will send you to hell so you should repent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

Chose Jesus or your church. They are not the same Jesus.

Regards
DL
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
It depends on what you mean by "would" here. Do you mean, "should," as in, "I'm so wonderful that a God *should want* to die for anyone so great as me"? If so, then yes, of course that's egotistical. Easy answer.

But according to Christians, that's not why Jesus died for us....not because we were so wonderful we deserved it, but rather because God Himself is intrinsically love, and so does things for the benefit of those who are definitely not worthy, not deserving and not at all wonderful.

In that view, it the more unworthy the recipient the greater the act of love that condescends to it.

Giving is a testament to the greatness of the giver, not to the worth of the recipient.

There's no ego in that realization.

P.S. -- And Jinx, take a pill. The man (or woman) just asked a question. It wasn't an unreasonable one.
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Bill Wiltrack
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

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QMan
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by QMan »

Not really, since he probably had to die for yours. But then, I haven't talked to him lately so I don't know if he succeeded. :wink:
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Greatest I am »

Immanuel Can wrote:
Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
It depends on what you mean by "would" here. Do you mean, "should," as in, "I'm so wonderful that a God *should want* to die for anyone so great as me"? If so, then yes, of course that's egotistical. Easy answer.

But according to Christians, that's not why Jesus died for us....not because we were so wonderful we deserved it, but rather because God Himself is intrinsically love, and so does things for the benefit of those who are definitely not worthy, not deserving and not at all wonderful.

In that view, it the more unworthy the recipient the greater the act of love that condescends to it.

Giving is a testament to the greatness of the giver, not to the worth of the recipient.

There's no ego in that realization.

P.S. -- And Jinx, take a pill. The man (or woman) just asked a question. It wasn't an unreasonable one.
Hmm. I must be greater than God then as I have forgiven Satan the way God says I should. I am to love all sinners as he is.

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

That above can`t be right of course. God would be the greatest as he would forgive Satan. Right?

There is no hell. Right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Greatest I am »

QMan wrote:Not really, since he probably had to die for yours. But then, I haven't talked to him lately so I don't know if he succeeded. :wink:
What man is so immoral that he would profit from God having his son murdered?

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty and here you are preaching for Satan. Shame on you.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.

He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do too. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Immanuel Can »

Hmm. I must be greater than God then as I have forgiven Satan the way God says I should. I am to love all sinners as he is.

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

That above can`t be right of course. God would be the greatest as he would forgive Satan. Right?

There is no hell. Right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

So let's see...

You must indeed be "great" if you could actually forgive things that are not done against you. That's not just great; it's incoherent. Your understanding of the doctrine of forgiveness needs a lot of work.

You should read the rest of that book if you want to have anything insightful to offer on Romans...or at least the immediately surrounding verses. It makes a clear distinction between God's role in judgment and human judgments. But it's clear you didn't bother.

And you think Mr. Spong is some kind of source of religious insight.

Wow.

The problem with knee-jerk skepticism is that it's every bit as irrational as the sort of belief it pretends to debunk. The arrogance that lets someone believe that they can pass so quickly over subjects that have occupied some of humanity's best minds for thousands of years is absolutely breath-taking here.

I'm always up for a sincere conversation, but at present I can only see a whole lot of sneering and an embarrassingly poor grasp of the subject.
QMan
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by QMan »

Greatest I am wrote:
QMan wrote:Not really, since he probably had to die for yours. But then, I haven't talked to him lately so I don't know if he succeeded. :wink:
What man is so immoral that he would profit from God having his son murdered?

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty and here you are preaching for Satan. Shame on you.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.

He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do too. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL
In my opinion God is very much like a bookkeeper, his books, just as for a top notch bookkeeper, must be balanced at the end of the day. Man continues to incur debt with his sinful behavior and that debt must be paid (even if we don't like it). Now, how would you propose to pay for the debt of sinners incurred through past and all future history of mankind? Note that the debt can only be paid for those who are sinners (all of us) who have elected to ultimately not reject God. Those who choose under their own free will to reject him prefer hell over heaven because they realize that is where they belong. See the link below where you can learn about hell.

Only a divine being can pay that enormous debt and only because that divine being is love incarnate and therefore volunteers to pay our debt.

God is master of all and can heal spiritually, intellectually, physically, and, most importantly, emotionally. It escaped me for a period in my life that God also created feeling and emotion and has the power to heal those besides intellect. This implies that God's emotions concerning man's sins must be set right and satisfied. Christ's sacrifice for us is therefore an ongoing thing in history where healing is accomplished through forgiveness of our sins by virtue of the value of his sacrifice in cooperation with our asking to be healed. Would you perhaps sacrifice something to help someone in your family or circle of friends when you see there is a need? This seems obvious. So I am a bit disconcerted about you misreading what evidently was Christ's and his father's joint decision to effect mankind's redemption through an infinitely valuable sacrifice to assuage God's anger and to balance the books.

http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje/he ... -hell.html
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Greatest I am »

Immanuel Can wrote:
Hmm. I must be greater than God then as I have forgiven Satan the way God says I should. I am to love all sinners as he is.

Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

That above can`t be right of course. God would be the greatest as he would forgive Satan. Right?

There is no hell. Right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

So let's see...

You must indeed be "great" if you could actually forgive things that are not done against you. That's not just great; it's incoherent. Your understanding of the doctrine of forgiveness needs a lot of work.

You should read the rest of that book if you want to have anything insightful to offer on Romans...or at least the immediately surrounding verses. It makes a clear distinction between God's role in judgment and human judgments. But it's clear you didn't bother.

And you think Mr. Spong is some kind of source of religious insight.

Wow.

The problem with knee-jerk skepticism is that it's every bit as irrational as the sort of belief it pretends to debunk. The arrogance that lets someone believe that they can pass so quickly over subjects that have occupied some of humanity's best minds for thousands of years is absolutely breath-taking here.

I'm always up for a sincere conversation, but at present I can only see a whole lot of sneering and an embarrassingly poor grasp of the subject.
Yes. I see how that is what you would see. Better to go soil yourself in private.

Regards
DL
Skip
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Skip »

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
Probably. Of course, without ego, we'd be nothing but fat, horny, slavering ids.
I'm sure its super-egotistical to judge a what, and for what reason, a god should do with his infinite potential incarnations.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Greatest I am »

Skip wrote:
Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
Probably. Of course, without ego, we'd be nothing but fat, horny, slavering ids.
I'm sure its super-egotistical to judge a what, and for what reason, a god should do with his infinite potential incarnations.
Well put.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by bobevenson »

Greatest I am wrote:Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
No, just stupid and divorced from reality.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

Post by Greatest I am »

bobevenson wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
No, just stupid and divorced from reality.
I agree but think it also inflates the ego to think one has God's ear.

Regards
DL
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