Why do good people suffer?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

But the problem is that in the centuries after Jesus, much was added by the leaders of the church as crowd control.

As all originated after the cessation of prophecy, they cannot therefore be regarded as inspired, nor are they ever cited by Christ or the apostles.
thedoc
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by thedoc »

reasonvemotion wrote:
But the problem is that in the centuries after Jesus, much was added by the leaders of the church as crowd control.
As all originated after the cessation of prophecy, they cannot therefore be regarded as inspired, nor are they ever cited by Christ or the apostles.
But much of this false doctrine is included in the Bible, so you agree that much has to be ignored?
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »


thedoc wrote:
But the problem is that in the centuries after Jesus, much was added by the leaders of the church as crowd control.

RE wrote:
As all originated after the cessation of prophecy, they cannot therefore be regarded as inspired, nor are they ever cited by Christ or the apostles.

the doc wrote:
But much of this false doctrine is included in the Bible, so you agree that much has to be ignored?

We may never be able to explain every text in Scripture, but we do not have to.

Fulfilled prophecies verify the Scripture's reliability.
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mtmynd1
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by mtmynd1 »

reasonvemotion wrote:
God resolutely tells us not to add to nor take away from His Word.

“... God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life..."
reasonvemotion... using the Bible to prove the Bible is not any proof that would appeal to the logic and understanding of any thoughtful being.

That said, please note your references, which I've included here, in the manner in which they have been written (and not in their native language, btw), are speaking FOR GOD and not the voice of GOD Himself speaking. "God shall add unto him..." and "God shall take away..." is without any doubt the wording of one who believes they are speaking FOR GOD and in no way is there any clue here that GOD Himself is doing the speaking. Why is that? God has no mouth, no hands, no eyes ... nothing to indicate a hint of "hu'man-ness" at all. This is because "GOD" is pure consciousness, pure and simple. Their is nothing material about this pure consciousness.

reasonvemotion, I don't expect you to comprehend any of this and I do know that you are one of many millions of people worldwide who (each) have their own interpretation of what your god(s) are and how you view them. But when questioned, that same majority will reference the Book... a book which was put together by the decree of King James utilizing various writings that were okayed by those authorities in charge. There were several writings which were intentionally left out thereby making it questionable as to why this "Word of God" was limited by hu'man choice..?

Hit me with more of your Biblical quotes and that assures me that you are not speaking from your own heart and mind but rather from a Book which you faithfully believe to be without fault in any way despite the likelihood of hu'man failure in the translation from one language to another. Should there be a God such as you believe in, I am absolutely convinced that God would encourage you to KNOW THYSELF over knowing the quotations you believe to be infallible and far more important to your personal life than what you yourself was created for by that very same God. To be authentic to your Being is to know your purpose in Life.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Unity of Man
The movement was initiated by Sant Kirpal Singh and thereafter managed by his close disciples Dr Harbhajan Singh and Mrs Surinder Kaur.

From what you are professing it seems to relate very closely to this movement.

Is this correct?
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mtmynd1
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by mtmynd1 »

reasonvemotion wrote:Is this correct?
I had never heard of this man until your mention of him.
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Hjarloprillar
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by Hjarloprillar »

"What if one is to suffer at the 'hands' of this creator to the extent of not only not wishing to live...but to never live again?
To only continue life so as not to harm those that love them.
To such a subject...was it really such a gift?
Isn't it the truest betrayal that they may one day have to live again for the same level of suffering to repeat?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

fishpie
Excellent.
Its such that i came here. to read the thoughts of others.\ "not wishing to live...but to never live again"

thank you

It touches on eternal damnation. and redemption.
And i am not even slightly a catholic.
windy36
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by windy36 »

skakos wrote:This is one of the greatest problems that troubles philosophers around the world.
(and one of the greatest arguments of atheists around the world...)

Why do good people suffer?

I think the problem can be solved if we understand that it is not really a problem.

Who are we to know that suffering is "bad" ?
Who are we to know that being "happy" in this short material life is our purpose on this planet?

As C.S. Lewis said: The real problem is not why some pious, humble, believing people suffer, but why some do not. The safest road to hell is the gradual one – the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts...

What do you mean by saying suffering is not really a problem? I don't understand C.S. Lewis's quote about some people not suffering because everyone suffers at one point or another.
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skakos
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by skakos »

mtmynd1 wrote:
reasonvemotion wrote:
God resolutely tells us not to add to nor take away from His Word.

“... God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life..."
reasonvemotion... using the Bible to prove the Bible is not any proof that would appeal to the logic and understanding of any thoughtful being.

That said, please note your references, which I've included here, in the manner in which they have been written (and not in their native language, btw), are speaking FOR GOD and not the voice of GOD Himself speaking. "God shall add unto him..." and "God shall take away..." is without any doubt the wording of one who believes they are speaking FOR GOD and in no way is there any clue here that GOD Himself is doing the speaking. Why is that? God has no mouth, no hands, no eyes ... nothing to indicate a hint of "hu'man-ness" at all. This is because "GOD" is pure consciousness, pure and simple. Their is nothing material about this pure consciousness.

reasonvemotion, I don't expect you to comprehend any of this and I do know that you are one of many millions of people worldwide who (each) have their own interpretation of what your god(s) are and how you view them. But when questioned, that same majority will reference the Book... a book which was put together by the decree of King James utilizing various writings that were okayed by those authorities in charge. There were several writings which were intentionally left out thereby making it questionable as to why this "Word of God" was limited by hu'man choice..?

Hit me with more of your Biblical quotes and that assures me that you are not speaking from your own heart and mind but rather from a Book which you faithfully believe to be without fault in any way despite the likelihood of hu'man failure in the translation from one language to another. Should there be a God such as you believe in, I am absolutely convinced that God would encourage you to KNOW THYSELF over knowing the quotations you believe to be infallible and far more important to your personal life than what you yourself was created for by that very same God. To be authentic to your Being is to know your purpose in Life.
But do you really want to use this as an argument? "God has no mouth"? Forget God. Just think: What/who "tells you" to be "good"? What/who "tells you" that you are something more than bones and flesh? Name it whatever you wish. Name it "Maria" or "Costas" if you wish. That does not change a thing.

The point is that there is "something more" out there. We feel it. And this "more" makes us understand that perhaps when good people suffer things are not so bad after all...
We may just be missing something...
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mtmynd1
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by mtmynd1 »

skakos wrote:
mtmynd1 wrote:
That said, please note your references, which I've included here, in the manner in which they have been written (and not in their native language, btw), are speaking FOR GOD and not the voice of GOD Himself speaking. "God shall add unto him..." and "God shall take away..." is without any doubt the wording of one who believes they are speaking FOR GOD and in no way is there any clue here that GOD Himself is doing the speaking. Why is that? God has no mouth, no hands, no eyes ... nothing to indicate a hint of "hu'man-ness" at all. This is because "GOD" is pure consciousness, pure and simple. Their is nothing material about this pure consciousness..
But do you really want to use this as an argument? "God has no mouth"?
No, skakos, I'm not using simply "god has no mouth" as an argument but a statement.
skakos wrote:Forget God. Just think: What/who "tells you" to be "good"? What/who "tells you" that you are something more than bones and flesh? Name it whatever you wish. Name it "Maria" or "Costas" if you wish. That does not change a thing.

The point is that there is "something more" out there. We feel it. And this "more" makes us understand that perhaps when good people suffer things are not so bad after all...
We may just be missing something...
skakos, what is 'out there' is not 'out there' but within you... within each an every living entity... what I call "pure consciousness" because like you said there is something more because we are conscious of something and that is our very consciousness which allows us to 'know', to understand what this mystery of life is, if we allow it to awaken us from our sleep. Our inability to accept this simple fact, that we know what we know and will eventually know what we are when we awaken from this life of the mundane, this everyday life that does not allow us to be our true Selves because of our indoctrinations we all go thru to work, earn and spend our way to a life of utter emptiness that leaves us scratching our heads with that perpetual question echoing in our heads, "Why?"
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skakos
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by skakos »

mtmynd1 wrote:
skakos wrote:Forget God. Just think: What/who "tells you" to be "good"? What/who "tells you" that you are something more than bones and flesh? Name it whatever you wish. Name it "Maria" or "Costas" if you wish. That does not change a thing.

The point is that there is "something more" out there. We feel it. And this "more" makes us understand that perhaps when good people suffer things are not so bad after all...
We may just be missing something...
skakos, what is 'out there' is not 'out there' but within you... within each an every living entity... what I call "pure consciousness" because like you said there is something more because we are conscious of something and that is our very consciousness which allows us to 'know', to understand what this mystery of life is, if we allow it to awaken us from our sleep. Our inability to accept this simple fact, that we know what we know and will eventually know what we are when we awaken from this life of the mundane, this everyday life that does not allow us to be our true Selves because of our indoctrinations we all go thru to work, earn and spend our way to a life of utter emptiness that leaves us scratching our heads with that perpetual question echoing in our heads, "Why?"
Very well put. I agree. That is why I have the "out there" in quotes. I believe we are all part of a greater One. And every action that disrupts our relation to that One is "bad". The sooner we realize that, the better.
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mtmynd1
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by mtmynd1 »

skakos wrote: I believe we are all part of a greater One. And every action that disrupts our relation to that One is "bad". The sooner we realize that, the better.
Thank you, skakos.

A poem I wrote some time back...

Mystery Eternal

Pearls are born
of irritation
Diamonds are born
from pressure

Resistance to change
will leave no growth
but surely a call
to return
again and again

to learn the lessons
that bring us
to awareness
of the Light
that overpowers
all shadows of doubt

It is our mind
used in selfish ways
that brings the
darkness within

as we cannot believe
that we are all
part of this

Mystery Eternal
______
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Hjarloprillar
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by Hjarloprillar »

mtmynd1

While i can write poetry i cannot write as well as thou.
May all time favorite is By M Arnold.
It brings out emotion as no other poem can [in me]
----------------------------------------
The sea is calm tonight,
The tide is full, the moon lies fair

Apon the straights; on the french coast the light
Gleams and is gone, the cliffs of england stand,
Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay.
Come to the window, sweet is the night air!

Only, from the long line of spray
Where the sea meets the moon blanched land,
Listen! you hear the grating roar
Of pebbles which the waves draw back and fling,
At their return apon the high strand,
Begin, and cease, and then again begin,
With tremulous cadence slow, and bring
The eternal note of sadness in,

Sophocles long ago
Heard it on the Aegean, and it brought,
Into his mind the turbid ebb and flow
Of human misery; we
Find also in the sound of thought,
Hearing it by this distant northern sea.

The Sea of Faith.
Was once too, at the full, and round earths shore
Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled,
But now i only hear
Its melancholy, long , withdrawing roar,
Retreating, to the breath
Of the night-wind down the vast edges drear
And naked shingles if the world.

Ah, love, let us be true
To one another! for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautifull, so new,

Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help from pain;

And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night.

(Dover Beach. by Arnold)
---------------------------

I would like to be in print to teach. I have 2/3rds of novel
"On a darkling Plain"

But if wishes were dollars i would buy bill gates. ;).

Prill
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Great poems, both!
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Hjarloprillar
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by Hjarloprillar »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:Great poems, both!
As everything you say goes over my head.
Could you elucidate?

e·lu·ci·date
/iˈlo͞osiˌdāt/
Verb
Make (something) clear; explain: "work that will help to elucidate this matter"; "they would not elucidate further".
Synonyms
explain - clarify - illuminate - illustrate - expound

:wink:
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