Why do good people suffer?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Tesla:
in a religious context only, they are arguing that the good should have an entitlement to good, and not have evil in their lives. of course, this has simply never been the case, and a good reason to avoid participation in this conversation unless you meet the requirement of actually believing a religious doctrine and ignoring all rational evidence from a standpoint that the bible is just another book written by many different people to support their government and belief system--which protects them in their minds--from evil.
What book has sold the most copies, the Bible.

6,000,000,000 copies, which means that if every Bible ever printed was distributed around the world everyone on earth would own one.

This book has been hated, loved, revered. People have died for it, and killed for it. It has been an inspiration for some of man's greatest acts and been blamed for his most terrible. There have been wars fought over it. People, from dictators to liberators, have scanned the pages of the Bible for Chapter or verse to justify their deeds.

The Bible's uniqueness comes from its source and subject matter, which is neither political or social. It is revelation from God.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

reasonvemotion wrote:Tesla:
in a religious context only, they are arguing that the good should have an entitlement to good, and not have evil in their lives. of course, this has simply never been the case, and a good reason to avoid participation in this conversation unless you meet the requirement of actually believing a religious doctrine and ignoring all rational evidence from a standpoint that the bible is just another book written by many different people to support their government and belief system--which protects them in their minds--from evil.
What book has sold the most copies, the Bible.

6,000,000,000 copies, which means that if every Bible ever printed was distributed around the world everyone on earth would own one.
Because missionaries and crusaders, twisted men of selfish coercion, forced their way into the land, of various indigenous people, so as to force their belief system upon those that simply lived off the land, you know, that life of simple harmony with nature, a pure life that much resembled the Garden of Eden, claiming to be men of wisdom that could tame their backward ways, while actually their ideal way of life, would one day change the innocent such that the lands of both the conquered and conquerors would eventually come to be the same, in that, this so called grand ideal, of religion, would one day strangle nature to death, leaving a wasteland in it's wake of flooded cities, deserts, yes, global warming, that would eventually destroy all of mankind.

Revelation is not a prophecy, it's rather the obvious conclusion of an act, currently in the making, by those greedy, selfish, religious, that just had to tell others what to do with their lives, as if they could possibly know the why of life, they destroyed all kinds of cultures based on a silly belief that in no way can be proved one way or another, a simple fiction of their mind, only created so they can say, they don't fear death. They're bringing about this revelation of theirs, make no mistake, they foretold it, because they create it.

Why do crazy people think they, above all others, are the only ones that could possibly, know the way of life, such that they destroy all those that think otherwise? How could they possibly truly believe that the proper way of life is to destroy life? As you soon call attention to, the numbers of people killed in it's name, and those that die for it, INSANITY! Anyone that kills for such trivial things, knows not, of a god, of CREATION, while their own fear of death, hangs on a belief, of everlasting life, I guess, because they, the mob, killed to prove it????? I'm reminded of the life of Hypatia.
INSANITY!!!!

This book has been hated, loved, revered. People have died for it, and killed for it. It has been an inspiration for some of man's greatest acts and been blamed for his most terrible. There have been wars fought over it. People, from dictators to liberators, have scanned the pages of the Bible for Chapter or verse to justify their deeds.

The Bible's uniqueness comes from its source and subject matter, which is neither political or social. It is revelation from God.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Scripture is its own light........... Martin Luther
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

reasonvemotion wrote:Scripture is its own light........... Martin Luther
All kinds of people, say all kinds of things, which doesn't change the facts of reality.
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Tesla
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by Tesla »

reasonvemotion wrote:Tesla:
in a religious context only, they are arguing that the good should have an entitlement to good, and not have evil in their lives. of course, this has simply never been the case, and a good reason to avoid participation in this conversation unless you meet the requirement of actually believing a religious doctrine and ignoring all rational evidence from a standpoint that the bible is just another book written by many different people to support their government and belief system--which protects them in their minds--from evil.
What book has sold the most copies, the Bible.

6,000,000,000 copies, which means that if every Bible ever printed was distributed around the world everyone on earth would own one.

This book has been hated, loved, revered. People have died for it, and killed for it. It has been an inspiration for some of man's greatest acts and been blamed for his most terrible. There have been wars fought over it. People, from dictators to liberators, have scanned the pages of the Bible for Chapter or verse to justify their deeds.

The Bible's uniqueness comes from its source and subject matter, which is neither political or social. It is revelation from God.
try this experiment: ask God why the bible contradicts itself. read acts 17 (19-20)
ask why Jesus told the religious leaders their 'bible' was wrong. ask why Jesus did not write anything at all, but he was literate. ask why so many people at the same time had the same claims of virgin birth, and the claim of being the 'savior'.

look up 'historical' Jesus.

Why in acts, was praise given for churches who search the scriptures to 'determine' what was true: instead of those who just claimed it was all true?

when Jesus pointed out the so-called 'law of God' that Moses gave was not 'really' the law of God, he was pointing out that the bible was not the Law of God. So the religious all wanted him dead. so then he 'dies' or 'doesn't die' either way he's absent, and then the same book gets touted as 'the law of God' that Jesus never claimed was. he claimed the word could not be contained in a book: yet the 'followers' of this man claim it does.

I like Jesus as he is portrayed, but most of it is probably lies. and evidence supports that.


what I believe doesn't matter to anyone but me, and anyone who chooses to agree. what you believe matters to you, and anyone who chooses to agree. we will not agree on this, because an old government handbook based on ignorance of the masses is no longer relevant to a less ignorant people. it has only survived because of indoctrination of children to keep it alive. and if that indoctrination was to stop, then the entire religion dies. same thing with Islamic extremism. Do you think the guys strapping bombs to themselves and blowing themselves up are crazy to believe that they will die and get a bunch of virgins to have sex with for doing it? so also do I think your crazy to believe a man that was killed did not die, did not stay to fix things, and had all the power of 'God' to make life anything he wanted and enforce good. oh, and he raised the dead, but yet was allowed to be killed by his followers. or that he had the power of miracles everywhere but where it counted most.

look at Edward Cayce, he is still immortalized, and never accomplished raising the dead. history would definitely remember an individual who did, without relying on the efforts of one man, namely Paul, in which if not for Paul, Christianity would never have flourished. isn't it odd that the followers of Jesus did not agree about how the religion should be conducted?

but whatever, you are the sum of your beliefs. and so am I. on this--the bible--we will disagree.
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mtmynd1
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by mtmynd1 »

reasonvemotion wrote:Technology's role is meeting increasing skepticism, because technology has thrust the planet to the brink of annihilation. Consequently, all the scientific progress has only made the world more dangerous.
What have you been using to make your posts here on PN? Do you not watch movies or television of any types of programming? How about listening to music... do you have a CD player or an MP3 device? How about a cell phone or even smart phone...? Google "the Bible" and see how technology has blossomed to include anything and everything the Bible has within it's pages... or any other Holy Book supporting a religious belief.

All these tech devices have hardly brought civilization "the brink of annihilation" as you put it, has it? And if you truly believe that, ask yourself why you are plugged in at least to a computer and the internet.
reasonvemotion wrote:In our search for a knowledge of God we must submit to the authority of His self-revelation, the Bible. Without these Biblical guidelines we cannot know God.
The problem is not one of intellect, it is closed hearts that darken minds.
You sound as though you have taken to the podium to preach for the Bible here. Have you studied any other religious books such as the Vedas or the Bhagavad Gita? How about the Buddhist Sutras (note: The first scripture printed for wide distribution to the masses was The Diamond Sutra, a Buddhist scripture, and is the earliest recorded example of a dated printed text, bearing the Chinese calendar date for 11 May 868 CE..

I needn't make a list of the hundreds of religious texts that people have read and studied for their personal search for God. The point being when you proclaim (without any proof to back it up) "we must submit to the authority of His self-revelation, the Bible", you are doing your own religion a great disservice. Do you really believe in monotheism, 'reasonvemotion'? One God. Nowhere is it written honestly, that there is only One Path to knowing One God. The paths are as numerous as the people and cultures that inhabit the Earth. There have been and there are literally thousands of people worldwide what have come to know their God and the majority have not used the Biblical texts to attain their gift from the One God.

You may be interested in the fact that there is nowhere within the pages of the Bible that say the Bible is the authority of God. Being learned in the Bible yourself, you should be aware of this passage:
Jesus was once asked when the kingdom of God would come. The kingdom of God, Jesus replied, is not something people will be able to see and point to. Then came these striking words: “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)
Go within yourself to Know Thyself, 'reasonvemotion' and not go within ANY book purporting to know YOUR SELF within for there lies the Kingdom of God.

Good luck!
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

All these tech devices have hardly brought civilization "the brink of annihilation" as you put it, has it? And if you truly believe that, ask yourself why you are plugged in at least to a computer and the internet.
"The Pentagon has asked Congress for nearly $5 billion for drones next year, and by 2030 envisions ever more stuff of science fiction: “spy flies” equipped with sensors and microcameras to detect enemies, nuclear weapons or victims in rubble. Peter W. Singer, a scholar at the Brookings Institution and the author of “Wired for War,” a book about military robotics, calls them “bugs with bugs.”

In recent months drones have been more crucial than ever in fighting wars and terrorism. The Central Intelligence Agency spied on Osama bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan by video transmitted from a new bat-winged stealth drone, the RQ-170 Sentinel, otherwise known as the “Beast of Kandahar,” named after it was first spotted on a runway in Afghanistan. One of Pakistan’s most wanted militants, Ilyas Kashmiri, was reported dead this month in a C.I.A. drone strike, part of an aggressive drone campaign that administration officials say has helped paralyze Al Qaeda in the region — and has become a possible rationale for an accelerated withdrawal of American forces from Afghanistan. More than 1,900 insurgents in Pakistan’s tribal areas have been killed by American drones since 2006, according to the Web site http://www.longwarjournal.com.

New York Times


I believe some drones are operated from Texas. Fun and games, hardly the brink of annihilation.
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mtmynd1
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by mtmynd1 »

reasonvemotion wrote:I believe some drones are operated from Texas. Fun and games, hardly the brink of annihilation.
In the United States, annual deaths resulting from firearms total

2011: 32,1635
2010: 31,6726
2009: 31,347
2008: 31,593
2007: 31,224
2006: 30,896
Not including 2012, the total number of deaths due to firearms in the U.S. since 2006, is over 188,000.

Whether we condone it or not, the truth is fighting a war using drones kills far fewer civilians compared to other means of war. Good? Unnecessary death should never be considered 'good' but regardless of the qualitative intent, compared to civilian cause deaths in the U.S., drone wars seem benign. It is the war machine of the 21st Century. Accept the reality or live in a fantasy, 'reasonvemotion'...

I see you have nothing to say regarding anything else I responded to you... What say you?
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Drones are the strategic tools of the future, a potent tool of great powers.
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mtmynd1
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by mtmynd1 »

reasonvemotion wrote:Drones are the strategic tools of the future, a potent tool of great powers.
Drones are only as potent as the decision makers allow them to be.

Now, back to your Bible... this is a board named "Philosophy of Religion" is it not?
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

You may be interested in the fact that there is nowhere within the pages of the Bible that say the Bible is the authority of God

In the very last commandment in the Bible God resolutely tells us not to add to nor take away from His Word.

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book”
—Revelation 22:18-19

also

His Word is absolutely sufficient in itself (Psalm 119:160).
artisticsolution
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by artisticsolution »

reasonvemotion wrote: His Word is absolutely sufficient in itself (Psalm 119:160).
I agree. The Bible was exquisitely written. It is written in a way that is up for interpretation for every man great or small. And it is man's interpretation that will show him for who he is. Interpret the bible in order to be unkind to your fellow man and it is a blatant indicator what is in your heart and mind. Allow others to interpret the bible for you...and it is a blatant indicator of what is in your heart and mind. It asks little of the naive and much of the intelligent. It really is amazing even if you don't read it as the word of God.
thedoc
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by thedoc »

reasonvemotion wrote:
You may be interested in the fact that there is nowhere within the pages of the Bible that say the Bible is the authority of God

In the very last commandment in the Bible God resolutely tells us not to add to nor take away from His Word.

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book”
—Revelation 22:18-19

also

His Word is absolutely sufficient in itself (Psalm 119:160).
It appears that you have your own thumper among you. The Bible is mostly Mythology and must be read as such, the truth is not in the detail, but in the lesson of the story.
thedoc
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by thedoc »

reasonvemotion wrote:
You may be interested in the fact that there is nowhere within the pages of the Bible that say the Bible is the authority of God

In the very last commandment in the Bible God resolutely tells us not to add to nor take away from His Word.

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book”
—Revelation 22:18-19

also

His Word is absolutely sufficient in itself (Psalm 119:160).
But the problem is that in the centuries after Jesus, much was added by the leaders of the church as crowd control.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Tesla wrote:
try this experiment: ask God why the bible contradicts itself. read acts 17 (19-20)ask why Jesus told the religious leaders their 'bible' was wrong.
Acts 17:19
They took Paul, to Areopagus where the supreme court of justice was held; one of the most sacred and reputable courts that had ever existed in the Gentile world.
Acts 17:20
"Thou bringest - strange things to our ears" - The doctrine of the apostles was different from any they had ever heard: it was spiritual which made it strange to them.

Paul saw the city was consumed with idolatory, but he acknowledges that (on their system) they were a very religious people, he compliments them on this and at the same time takes advantage to show them where it is defective. They did not know the true God. God was to them the "unknown God" written on the alter. As they were religious people, they listened to Paul as he described that God whose being they acknowledged, but whose nature they did not know.

Paul took the fact that the alter was inscribed to the "unknown God" and assumed the right, which neither, philosopher, or judge in the court could dispute, he brought the whole subject of Christianity before them. He used plain and sensible reasonings to convince his hearers of the soundness of his doctrine. So Paul not being convicted of breaking the law, departed.

ask why Jesus did not write anything at all, but he was literate.

I don't know.

ask why so many people at the same time had the same claims of virgin birth, and the claim of being the 'savior'.


and still do
John 4:1 Dear friends do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Why in acts, was praise given for churches who search the scriptures to 'determine' what was true: instead of those who just claimed it was all true?


Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
also
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

when Jesus pointed out the so-called 'law of God' that Moses gave was not 'really' the law of God, he was pointing out that the bible was not the Law of God. So the religious all wanted him dead. so then he 'dies' or 'doesn't die' either way he's absent, and then the same book gets touted as 'the law of God' that Jesus never claimed was. he claimed the word could not be contained in a book: yet the 'followers' of this man claim it does.


Verse?

I like Jesus as he is portrayed, but most of it is probably lies. and evidence supports that.


Evidence?


what I believe doesn't matter to anyone but me, and anyone who chooses to agree. what you believe matters to you, and anyone who chooses to agree. we will not agree on this, because an old government handbook based on ignorance of the masses is no longer relevant to a less ignorant people. it has only survived because of indoctrination of children to keep it alive. and if that indoctrination was to stop, then the entire religion dies. same thing with Islamic extremism. Do you think the guys strapping bombs to themselves and blowing themselves up are crazy to believe that they will die and get a bunch of virgins to have sex with for doing it? so also do I think your crazy to believe a man that was killed did not die, did not stay to fix things, and had all the power of 'God' to make life anything he wanted and enforce good. oh, and he raised the dead, but yet was allowed to be killed by his followers. or that he had the power of miracles everywhere but where it counted most.

look at Edward Cayce, he is still immortalized, and never accomplished raising the dead. history would definitely remember an individual who did, without relying on the efforts of one man, namely Paul, in which if not for Paul, Christianity would never have flourished. isn't it odd that the followers of Jesus did not agree about how the religion should be conducted?

but whatever, you are the sum of your beliefs. and so am I. on this--the bible--we will disagree.



Ezekiel 2:7
"You shall speak My words to them, whether they hear or whether they refuse..."

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
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