Why do good people suffer?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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bobevenson
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by bobevenson »

Don't you people get it? There is no eternity. There is no fundamental meaning to anything. It doesn't matter what you think or do. Eventually, we are all forgotten, some earlier than others. Suffering is merely an organic situational response to evolution itself.
artisticsolution
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by artisticsolution »

bobevenson wrote:Don't you people get it? There is no eternity. There is no fundamental meaning to anything. It doesn't matter what you think or do. Eventually, we are all forgotten, some earlier than others. Suffering is merely an organic situational response to evolution itself.
Stop being the voice of reason...it's freakin me the hell out! :D

If it doesn't matter what we do or think then you need not break the news there is no eternity....that is unless you are secretly worried that we will die truly believing in an after life.

So tell me again....what does it matter if someone believes in eternity or not? How is it going to affect you?

Or perhaps you came here to regulate freedom?

Oh you liberal you!
tbieter
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by tbieter »

bobevenson wrote:Don't you people get it? There is no eternity. There is no fundamental meaning to anything. It doesn't matter what you think or do. Eventually, we are all forgotten, some earlier than others. Suffering is merely an organic situational response to evolution itself.
Ah, a nihilist. Ouzo has failed to change the world. :(
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Hjarloprillar
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by Hjarloprillar »

skakos wrote:
As C.S. Lewis said: The real problem is not why some pious, humble, believing people suffer, but why some do not. The safest road to hell is the gradual one – the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts...
True

The road cannot have sharp turns let alone divisions .. it must lead ever on till we are there.
horror , death murder.. these where what we did to make the road such.
No conscience. no care no empathy.. the blind surety off willful ignorance.
And once there . i bet all complain of what i did to get here.

My grandad once said ' be wary when you step out the door boy.. The world is full of idiots..'

he was so quiet..the next day he told me of what he did.. he was sniper in ww1. one of the best.
i was stunned.. grnda a sniper? wow
"They gave me a medal for killing more than 100 men. I still vomit at thought. They all wait for me in hell waiting."
He said.. "do no harm" then he said no more.[shooed me away in fact]

He died 4 days later.

i wanted that on his grave stone.[be wary....]. my parents said no. [we already paid for it]

this was 1968.. he had bled for 50 years.. his conscience..I cannot imagine such woe.
artisticsolution
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by artisticsolution »

Hjarloprillar wrote: "They gave me a medal for killing more than 100 men. I still vomit at thought. They all wait for me in hell waiting."
He said.. "do no harm" then he said no more.[shooed me away in fact]
But how are we to know if what we do is right or wrong? It's not like we are Abraham and actually have God speak to us so that we know for sure.

What if by his killing 100 men he saved 1000? What if there is nothing after life? Would he have gone to prison for life if he refused to shoot the 100? I am no martyr...I would probably shoot 100 if the consequences meant I would go to prison for life if I didn't....but I would feel bad just like your grandpa.

But why should he go to hell? It is not moral that he should. To be born to a situation that predisposes one to immorality is immoral in my line of thinking. The human condition is prone to immorality. Would God play such a trick? Seems odd...seems illogical.

I think about it sort of like a Rawl's 'theory of justice' sort of way. Let's suppose we are up in heaven and waiting to be born. We are told by God...that when we go to Earth and sin we will be punished for all eternity. In other words we know the consequences going in but we don't know who we will be born to be or what part we will play. We also are told that God will make some of us have to fulfill a destiny that is evil. . So then we are told that some of us will be rich...some of us will be poor...some will have testosterone, some of us will not, etc. Basically, evil will be harder to resist for some than others. Some may go to heaven by default (the ones who die as babies or innocents).

So who will have a harder time resisting sin? Well, probably those with testosterone will have a harder time. And I think being rich...that would make it harder as we are prone to greed. My point is some will be damned no matter what...just by being born into certain circumstances. Does that seem logical? Why even be born? Who gives a shit about some soap opera timeline of an earth created for the soul purpose of some Deity's entertainment?

It doesn't make sense that God would have created this scenario.

If When making us...he actively created immorality. Then why damn us for the very thing he created?

"It would be better to never have been born."
Last edited by artisticsolution on Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hjarloprillar
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by Hjarloprillar »

Aristic..
yes he may have saved a thousand.. but to him each life was seen briefly in sights of his riffle.. [ no scopes in those days]He was a roo hunter in aus.. could hit a moving target at 400 yards without blinking

His horror was that all those men had wives and kids.. it ate him up. His conscience consumed the good man.

My aspergers is unusual say the psychologists.
I seem to know what love is when talking of my clan.. outside that i go blank.like the guy that can only talk when he puts on an american accent.
otherwise he is mute.
They did computed axial tomograhy. MrI pet.. all nothing..

My brain appears to be just like every one elses'

unused and alone.
bobevenson
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by bobevenson »

artisticsolution wrote:
bobevenson wrote:Don't you people get it? There is no eternity. There is no fundamental meaning to anything. It doesn't matter what you think or do. Eventually, we are all forgotten, some earlier than others. Suffering is merely an organic situational response to evolution itself.
Stop being the voice of reason...it's freakin me the hell out! :D

If it doesn't matter what we do or think then you need not break the news there is no eternity....that is unless you are secretly worried that we will die truly believing in an after life.

So tell me again....what does it matter if someone believes in eternity or not? How is it going to affect you?

Or perhaps you came here to regulate freedom?

Oh you liberal you!
I responded to your post, but as usual, the moderator deleted it for some reason.
artisticsolution
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by artisticsolution »

Hjarloprillar wrote:
unused and alone.

Yes...we are all alone. But from the looks of it you have used yours a fair bit.
artisticsolution
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by artisticsolution »

bobevenson wrote:
artisticsolution wrote:
bobevenson wrote:Don't you people get it? There is no eternity. There is no fundamental meaning to anything. It doesn't matter what you think or do. Eventually, we are all forgotten, some earlier than others. Suffering is merely an organic situational response to evolution itself.
Stop being the voice of reason...it's freakin me the hell out! :D

If it doesn't matter what we do or think then you need not break the news there is no eternity....that is unless you are secretly worried that we will die truly believing in an after life.

So tell me again....what does it matter if someone believes in eternity or not? How is it going to affect you?

Or perhaps you came here to regulate freedom?

Oh you liberal you!
I responded to your post, but as usual, the moderator deleted it for some reason.
What did you say...was it advertising something?
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skakos
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by skakos »

reasonvemotion wrote:
Why do good people suffer?
The bad know how to hide "bad" and then become "good" in people's eyes.

So there you have it. It is really the bad people who suffer.

Not the good.
Interesting...

So if you are a nice person there is NO suffering at all?

Is that why Jesus suffered?
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skakos
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by skakos »

Notvacka wrote:The question is why does anybody suffer? Why is there suffering in the world?
This is the best possible world according to Leibnitz: Allowing free will, but also some evil too... The rest of the suffering can be attributed to physical phenomena.
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skakos
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by skakos »

artisticsolution wrote:I think very few people actually suffer. I believe most of us like the romantic notion that we suffer but I don't believe most of us know what true suffering is. Puts me in the mind of a friend of mine who used to say she was 'suffering from a cold'. My own mother believes she has suffered greatly in her life...and if you asked her why she would tell you it was because she married the wrong men.

We all have one reason or another to speak of suffering...but is it really suffering? What I mean by suffering is Darfur ripping your baby out of your hands and throwing it on the fire in front of your eyes while you are being brutally raped and tortured until you mercifully die type suffering.

All in all...I think most of us have never known true suffering. It is more likely that we build it up in our heads as a romantic notion that life is unbearable for us. Perhaps if when we think we are suffering, we imagine a scenario that is worse than what we are actually experiencing, then maybe our own hurt would look like minor bruises instead of tortures of the damned?
Indeed, it all depends on how you see things. Many of us treat death as something "bad" even though we do not have the slightest idea of what it actually is...
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skakos
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by skakos »

artisticsolution wrote:
Hjarloprillar wrote: "They gave me a medal for killing more than 100 men. I still vomit at thought. They all wait for me in hell waiting."
He said.. "do no harm" then he said no more.[shooed me away in fact]
But how are we to know if what we do is right or wrong? It's not like we are Abraham and actually have God speak to us so that we know for sure.

What if by his killing 100 men he saved 1000? What if there is nothing after life? Would he have gone to prison for life if he refused to shoot the 100? I am no martyr...I would probably shoot 100 if the consequences meant I would go to prison for life if I didn't....but I would feel bad just like your grandpa.

But why should he go to hell? It is not moral that he should. To be born to a situation that predisposes one to immorality is immoral in my line of thinking. The human condition is prone to immorality. Would God play such a trick? Seems odd...seems illogical.

I think about it sort of like a Rawl's 'theory of justice' sort of way. Let's suppose we are up in heaven and waiting to be born. We are told by God...that when we go to Earth and sin we will be punished for all eternity. In other words we know the consequences going in but we don't know who we will be born to be or what part we will play. We also are told that God will make some of us have to fulfill a destiny that is evil. . So then we are told that some of us will be rich...some of us will be poor...some will have testosterone, some of us will not, etc. Basically, evil will be harder to resist for some than others. Some may go to heaven by default (the ones who die as babies or innocents).

So who will have a harder time resisting sin? Well, probably those with testosterone will have a harder time. And I think being rich...that would make it harder as we are prone to greed. My point is some will be damned no matter what...just by being born into certain circumstances. Does that seem logical? Why even be born? Who gives a shit about some soap opera timeline of an earth created for the soul purpose of some Deity's entertainment?

It doesn't make sense that God would have created this scenario.

If When making us...he actively created immorality. Then why damn us for the very thing he created?

"It would be better to never have been born."
But you can't make such a choice. You cannot play the role of Fate. Live and let live, this should be the motto. We do not know why we live and we do not certainly know why we die. So how could we choose between the two? (let alone for another person) Just let go with the flow... The Universe usually knows more than you do... Even regarding suffering...
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Interesting...

So if you are a nice person there is NO suffering at all?

Is that why Jesus suffered?


Awkardly described. What I meant was there is no bad or good, it is all the same.

You sin, I sin, the Pope sins, every one on this Forum sins.

All sin, there is no discrimination.



"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

John 8:7

and that is why we suffer.
artisticsolution
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by artisticsolution »

skakos wrote: But you can't make such a choice. You cannot play the role of Fate. Live and let live, this should be the motto. We do not know why we live and we do not certainly know why we die. So how could we choose between the two? (let alone for another person) Just let go with the flow... The Universe usually knows more than you do... Even regarding suffering...
Hi Skakos,

I was just supposing there is a God for arguments sake. I do not know if there is one or not but I admit that there is more evidence there is not. If it wasn't for these damn feelings...

What I was trying to get at is IF there is a God of the bible, THEN I would think that he made the world to work in a logical order....and order which would make sense to us. It would make no sense for him to make us believe in nonsense for the soul sake of foolery and trickery.

So then if it is the case that he created a logical world, then it stands to reason...since we sin...he also sins...since he made us with a predisposition to sin. If there was no such thing as sin...then we would not know what sin was. If he created all...then he created sin...as it is not logical that we created sin... after all...we are not omnipotent.

The first sin, original sin....was only sin because God said so. He could have easily made a world where there was no sin....actually...he did...it's called heaven.
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