Why do good people suffer?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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skakos
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Why do good people suffer?

Post by skakos »

This is one of the greatest problems that troubles philosophers around the world.
(and one of the greatest arguments of atheists around the world...)

Why do good people suffer?

I think the problem can be solved if we understand that it is not really a problem.

Who are we to know that suffering is "bad" ?
Who are we to know that being "happy" in this short material life is our purpose on this planet?

As C.S. Lewis said: The real problem is not why some pious, humble, believing people suffer, but why some do not. The safest road to hell is the gradual one – the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts...
tbieter
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by tbieter »

skakos wrote:This is one of the greatest problems that troubles philosophers around the world.
(and one of the greatest arguments of atheists around the world...)

Why do good people suffer?

I think the problem can be solved if we understand that it is not really a problem.

Who are we to know that suffering is "bad" ?
Who are we to know that being "happy" in this short material life is our purpose on this planet?

As C.S. Lewis said: The real problem is not why some pious, humble, believing people suffer, but why some do not. The safest road to hell is the gradual one – the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts...
Because all people suffer, more or less, because suffering is a constant of the human condition.
tbieter
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by tbieter »

skakos wrote:This is one of the greatest problems that troubles philosophers around the world.
(and one of the greatest arguments of atheists around the world...)

Why do good people suffer?

I think the problem can be solved if we understand that it is not really a problem.

Who are we to know that suffering is "bad" ?
Who are we to know that being "happy" in this short material life is our purpose on this planet?

As C.S. Lewis said: The real problem is not why some pious, humble, believing people suffer, but why some do not. The safest road to hell is the gradual one – the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts...
In Lewis' book, where are the thoughts that you cite to be found?
http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S- ... c.s.+lewis
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

Why do good people suffer?
The bad know how to hide "bad" and then become "good" in people's eyes.

So there you have it. It is really the bad people who suffer.

Not the good.
tbieter
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by tbieter »

tbieter wrote:
skakos wrote:This is one of the greatest problems that troubles philosophers around the world.
(and one of the greatest arguments of atheists around the world...)

Why do good people suffer?

I think the problem can be solved if we understand that it is not really a problem.

Who are we to know that suffering is "bad" ?
Who are we to know that being "happy" in this short material life is our purpose on this planet?

As C.S. Lewis said: The real problem is not why some pious, humble, believing people suffer, but why some do not. The safest road to hell is the gradual one – the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts...
Because all people suffer, more or less, because suffering is a constant of the human condition.
An existing "problem" state of affairs is not solved by simply declaring that it is not a problem.

b]Logical Problem:[/b]
"The existence of evil and suffering in our world seems to pose a serious challenge to belief in the existence of a perfect God. If God were all-knowing, it seems that God would know about all of the horrible things that happen in our world. If God were all-powerful, God would be able to do something about all of the evil and suffering. Furthermore, if God were morally perfect, then surely God would want to do something about it. And yet we find that our world is filled with countless instances of evil and suffering. These facts about evil and suffering seem to conflict with the orthodox theist claim that there exists a perfectly good God. The challenged posed by this apparent conflict has come to be known as the problem of evil." http://www.iep.utm.edu/evil-log/

Evidential Problem:
"The evidential problem of evil is the problem of determining whether and, if so, to what extent the existence of evil (or certain instances, kinds, quantities, or distributions of evil) constitutes evidence against the existence of God, that is to say, a being perfect in power, knowledge and goodness. Evidential arguments from evil attempt to show that, once we put aside any evidence there might be in support of the existence of God, it becomes unlikely, if not highly unlikely, that the world was created and is governed by an omnipotent, omniscient, and wholly good being. Such arguments are not to be confused with logical arguments from evil, which have the more ambitious aim of showing that, in a world in which there is evil, it is logically impossible—and not just unlikely—that God exists." http://www.iep.utm.edu/evil-evi/
thedoc
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by thedoc »

I believe the rain fall on everyone, doesn't it?
jinx
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by jinx »

God created everything 'good' and 'very good' it was mankinds (Adam and Eves) sin that ruined it for mankind, not God.
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Notvacka
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by Notvacka »

The question is why does anybody suffer? Why is there suffering in the world?
reasonvemotion
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by reasonvemotion »

I believe the rain falls on everyone, doesn't it?


I like this, has a quality of truth.

In reality there is no distinction.
duszek
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by duszek »

I may be able to say something when I read "Brothers Karamazov".
I started yesterday.
artisticsolution
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by artisticsolution »

I think very few people actually suffer. I believe most of us like the romantic notion that we suffer but I don't believe most of us know what true suffering is. Puts me in the mind of a friend of mine who used to say she was 'suffering from a cold'. My own mother believes she has suffered greatly in her life...and if you asked her why she would tell you it was because she married the wrong men.

We all have one reason or another to speak of suffering...but is it really suffering? What I mean by suffering is Darfur ripping your baby out of your hands and throwing it on the fire in front of your eyes while you are being brutally raped and tortured until you mercifully die type suffering.

All in all...I think most of us have never known true suffering. It is more likely that we build it up in our heads as a romantic notion that life is unbearable for us. Perhaps if when we think we are suffering, we imagine a scenario that is worse than what we are actually experiencing, then maybe our own hurt would look like minor bruises instead of tortures of the damned?
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

skakos wrote:This is one of the greatest problems that troubles philosophers around the world.
(and one of the greatest arguments of atheists around the world...)

Why do good people suffer?

I think the problem can be solved if we understand that it is not really a problem.

Who are we to know that suffering is "bad" ?
Who are we to know that being "happy" in this short material life is our purpose on this planet?

As C.S. Lewis said: The real problem is not why some pious, humble, believing people suffer, but why some do not. The safest road to hell is the gradual one – the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts...
Simple, people suffer because the human animal has needs, both physically, and mentally. If these needs are not met, one is said to suffer. Suffering thus knows not of good or evil, as it is a relative concept, born of human dichotomy. If one believes that it owes it's existence to a creator, isn't that special enough, that it has received the gift of life, why then expect special consideration, as to suffering, when there is no necessary accounting for knowledge or belief?
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attofishpi
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by attofishpi »

SpheresOfBalance wrote:Simple, people suffer because the human animal has needs, both physically, and mentally. If these needs are not met, one is said to suffer. Suffering thus knows not of good or evil, as it is a relative concept, born of human dichotomy. If one believes that it owes it's existence to a creator, isn't that special enough, that it has received the gift of life, why then expect special consideration, as to suffering, when there is no necessary accounting for knowledge or belief?
What if one is to suffer at the 'hands' of this creator to the extent of not only not wishing to live...but to never live again?
To only continue life so as not to harm those that love them.
To such a subject...was it really such a gift?
Isn't it the truest betrayal that they may one day have to live again for the same level of suffering to repeat?
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

attofishpi wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Simple, people suffer because the human animal has needs, both physically, and mentally. If these needs are not met, one is said to suffer. Suffering thus knows not of good or evil, as it is a relative concept, born of human dichotomy. If one believes that it owes it's existence to a creator, isn't that special enough, that it has received the gift of life, why then expect special consideration, as to suffering, when there is no necessary accounting for knowledge or belief?
What if one is to suffer at the 'hands' of this creator to the extent of not only not wishing to live...but to never live again?
To only continue life so as not to harm those that love them.
To such a subject...was it really such a gift?
Isn't it the truest betrayal that they may one day have to live again for the same level of suffering to repeat?
You see, I'm different in my approach to the idea of a creator. In my version of religion the creator merely creates, and does not get involved in the lives of its creation, as it loves all of it's creations, treats them equally, and allows them to steer their own course.

So do you see that this nontraditional approach precludes my involvement within this thread, as it's unlikely that there is much common ground for us to debate upon?
artisticsolution
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Re: Why do good people suffer?

Post by artisticsolution »

attofishpi wrote:What if one is to suffer at the 'hands' of this creator to the extent of not only not wishing to live...but to never live again?
To only continue life so as not to harm those that love them.
To such a subject...was it really such a gift?
Isn't it the truest betrayal that they may one day have to live again for the same level of suffering to repeat?
Eternity is a long time to suffer. I think suffering would get boring after a while and it would be in our human nature to eventually ignore it in lieu of something else...that is if we were forced to live for eternity. Perhaps in that amount of time...we could train our minds to do almost anything.
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