Reincarnation

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Harbal
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:01 am
Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am His actions will effect the actions of others, and so ripple outwards through both space and time.
If 'you' want to use the 'time' and 'space' words here now, then what do those words mean or refer to, to 'you', the one known here as "harbal"?
By space I mean a person's presence in the world will have a direct and also indirect effect on his environment, including the other people in it. And you could say there will be a rippling out effect. By time I mean those effects will also continue to ripple out into the future.
And, to 'me', these 'ones' here are the invisible 'thoughts' and 'emotions' WITHIN human bodies, and this invisible part of the 'human being', is what the 'soul' word is said to refer to, and which to 'me' is just the 'being' part of the 'human being'.
I don't think of it quite like that. I wouldn't divide "human being" into two parts. You have defined what you consider the "I" to be, and I don't disagree, but I also think of it as identity, and the physical body is very much part of that identity. What you call the invisible part, and what others might call the immaterial part, could not exist without the physical part, or so it seems to me. This is only relevant while the person lives, of course, and doesn't really have any bearing on the issue of what you describe as the soul continuing on after death.
When 'you' say here 'long gone' 'characters' are 'you' referring to ACTUAL non existing 'characters'?
No, I mean those who are no longer alive, but of whom our information is incorrect.
I NEVER like to ASSUME absolutely ANY thing, although I obviously and regretfully do sometimes, but anyway if 'you' would like to ASSUME 'this' or ANY thing else, then 'you' are absolutely FREE to do so.

But if I ask, or asked, questions, then I do so for MY CLARIFICATION, and NOT necessarily for YOUR CLARIFICATION. So, if 'you' would like to or NOT like to answer the questions I asked, then that is PURELY YOUR CHOICE, ALONE.

But just so you KNOW I am NOT even sure what questions you are referring to here.
I'm not sure what the question was, either, but you were asking me to clarify something that I subsequently changed my mind about, so any clarification would have been redundant.
Age
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:05 am
Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:01 am
Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am His actions will effect the actions of others, and so ripple outwards through both space and time.
If 'you' want to use the 'time' and 'space' words here now, then what do those words mean or refer to, to 'you', the one known here as "harbal"?
By space I mean a person's presence in the world will have a direct and also indirect effect on his environment, including the other people in it. And you could say there will be a rippling out effect. By time I mean those effects will also continue to ripple out into the future.
Okay, thanks.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:05 am
And, to 'me', these 'ones' here are the invisible 'thoughts' and 'emotions' WITHIN human bodies, and this invisible part of the 'human being', is what the 'soul' word is said to refer to, and which to 'me' is just the 'being' part of the 'human being'.
I don't think of it quite like that. I wouldn't divide "human being" into two parts. You have defined what you consider the "I" to be, and I don't disagree, but I also think of it as identity, and the physical body is very much part of that identity. What you call the invisible part, and what others might call the immaterial part, could not exist without the physical part, or so it seems to me. This is only relevant while the person lives, of course, and doesn't really have any bearing on the issue of what you describe as the soul continuing on after death.
Okay, and fair enough. But, if the physical body is part of the identity of 'you', a 'person', and/or 'self', then let us say that if an arm or a leg is 'lost' in an accident, on 'that' physical human body, then do 'you' then become less of a 'person', less of a 'self', or just 'less then'?
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:05 am
When 'you' say here 'long gone' 'characters' are 'you' referring to ACTUAL non existing 'characters'?
No, I mean those who are no longer alive, but of whom our information is incorrect.
And how, exactly, do 'we' KNOW that 'our' information is incorrect?
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:05 am
I NEVER like to ASSUME absolutely ANY thing, although I obviously and regretfully do sometimes, but anyway if 'you' would like to ASSUME 'this' or ANY thing else, then 'you' are absolutely FREE to do so.

But if I ask, or asked, questions, then I do so for MY CLARIFICATION, and NOT necessarily for YOUR CLARIFICATION. So, if 'you' would like to or NOT like to answer the questions I asked, then that is PURELY YOUR CHOICE, ALONE.

But just so you KNOW I am NOT even sure what questions you are referring to here.
I'm not sure what the question was, either, but you were asking me to clarify something that I subsequently changed my mind about, so any clarification would have been redundant.
Okay. But now this leads to 'me' wanting to ask 'you' another question, and not for 'you' to specifically provide 'me' with an answer, but for 'you' to at least to just ponder over for a second or two, or preferably a longer. What do the words, 'my mind', actually mean or refer to, EXACTLY?
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:29 am Okay, and fair enough. But, if the physical body is part of the identity of 'you', a 'person', and/or 'self', then let us say that if an arm or a leg is 'lost' in an accident, on 'that' physical human body, then do 'you' then become less of a 'person', less of a 'self', or just 'less then'?
I imagine that anyone who does lose an arm or a leg feels less of a person, but I'm going to have to risk being accused of avoiding the question, because my response to it will not contain the kind of answer you are looking for. This, to me, is an example of a situation that tends to be an obstacle when we try to think about what the reality of a particular set of circumstances might be. Rather than feel forced to stick with set definitions, which are often arbitrary anyway, and try to answer the question in accordance with them, it seems preferable to use descriptions. In this instance I would use the description; a human being, or person, with an arm or leg missing. That isn't meant to sound flippant, and probably doesn't do a great job of explaining what I am trying to say, but I hope that you can get at least a sense of what I mean.
And how, exactly, do 'we' KNOW that 'our' information is incorrect?
We sometimes can't know, but, on further thought, I decided that what I said about our knowledge of historic figures sometimes being incorrect wasn't relevant to what we were discussing.
Okay. But now this leads to 'me' wanting to ask 'you' another question, and not for 'you' to specifically provide 'me' with an answer, but for 'you' to at least to just ponder over for a second or two, or preferably a longer. What do the words, 'my mind', actually mean or refer to, EXACTLY?
This is something I have already pondered quite a lot, but I think in terms of consciousness, rather than mind. I don't know if they are the same thing. If one of my children, when they were young, had asked me what the mind was, I would have told them that it was the part of us that thinks, and feels happy or sad. I am very reluctant to give you that same, simplistic answer, but I don't know what else to say.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:49 am
Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:29 am Okay, and fair enough. But, if the physical body is part of the identity of 'you', a 'person', and/or 'self', then let us say that if an arm or a leg is 'lost' in an accident, on 'that' physical human body, then do 'you' then become less of a 'person', less of a 'self', or just 'less then'?
I imagine that anyone who does lose an arm or a leg feels less of a person,
That is quite an IMAGINATION, especially considering the amount of different human beings that have existed and will exist, and how they are ALL DIFFERENT in 'thought' and 'feelings'.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:49 am but I'm going to have to risk being accused of avoiding the question, because my response to it will not contain the kind of answer you are looking for.
But 'what' answer am I, SUPPOSEDLY, 'looking for'?

I was here just asking 'you', ALONE, and with NO PRECONCEPTION AT ALL of what 'your' answer would be.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:49 am This, to me, is an example of a situation that tends to be an obstacle when we try to think about what the reality of a particular set of circumstances might be.
BUT 'the question', and thus 'the answer', is in regards to 'you', "harbal", ONLY.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:49 am Rather than feel forced to stick with set definitions, which are often arbitrary anyway, and try to answer the question in accordance with them, it seems preferable to use descriptions. In this instance I would use the description; a human being, or person, with an arm or leg missing. That isn't meant to sound flippant, and probably doesn't do a great job of explaining what I am trying to say, but I hope that you can get at least a sense of what I mean.
'you' just include the 'human body' as part of a 'person', 'self', or 'you', correct?

If yes, then 'you' also just say that it does NOT matter how much of 'you' is 'not there' or 'has gone', 'you' would still NOT say that 'you' were 'less of' a 'person', but just that 'you' FEEL 'less of a person', correct?
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:49 am
And how, exactly, do 'we' KNOW that 'our' information is incorrect?
We sometimes can't know, but, on further thought, I decided that what I said about our knowledge of historic figures sometimes being incorrect wasn't relevant to what we were discussing.
Okay.

But 'you' did say 'it', and I WAS just trying to gain CLARIFIED. But if you do NOT want to continue, then that is okay.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:49 am
Okay. But now this leads to 'me' wanting to ask 'you' another question, and not for 'you' to specifically provide 'me' with an answer, but for 'you' to at least to just ponder over for a second or two, or preferably a longer. What do the words, 'my mind', actually mean or refer to, EXACTLY?
This is something I have already pondered quite a lot, but I think in terms of consciousness, rather than mind. I don't know if they are the same thing. If one of my children, when they were young, had asked me what the mind was, I would have told them that it was the part of us that thinks, and feels happy or sad. I am very reluctant to give you that same, simplistic answer, but I don't know what else to say.
Okay. I understand.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:33 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am
Age wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:50 am

To 'me', the word 'experience' or 'experiences' refers to 'what' is 'taking place', like; when the weather is 'sunny' or 'raining'.

To 'me', so far, it would be an IMPOSSIBILITY for 'experiences', themselves, or even a 'bundle of experiences' to be 'experiencing' 'things'.

to 'me', it is as SIMPLE as it is just the human body, itself, that 'experiences', (in relation to 'you', human beings). and how the human body 'experiences' is through ANY of the five senses. It is then, through ANY of the five senses, of what 'the body' is 'experiencing', this 'information', if this is what we like 'it', is sent to the brain, where, there is thee Truly OPEN existing, then 'this information' is grasped and/or stored

And then, WHEN the 'information' is added with and/or onto other 'information', then the 'person', within, continues to gradually form, evolve, grow up, and/or mature. Until a time when this 'one' 'person', 'self', 'i', or 'you' starts noticing, becoming 'aware', or let us say, 'becomes conscious' of 'things'. However, it is still NOT this 'one' who NOR what is 'experiencing' and it is always the physical senses of a physical body that is able to 'experience' 'things'.

So, to 'me', it is physical bodies, which have physical senses, that is the 'thing' that 'experiences'.



I TOTALLY AGREE.

In fact, to 'me', absolutely EVERY 'thought' comes from the past 'experiences' of the human body. I have even referred to the ASSUMES that 'you', human beings, make and USE, as APE thinking. That is Assumptions made, based on, Past Experiences. And which, by the way, is partly WHY 'you', human beings, have been led, so far ASTRAY.

There is no 'you' which is other than a bundle of experiences.


And that is DUE to the IRREFUTABLE Fact there is ONLY ONE physical body that THAT "belinda" inhabits and dwells.

'you', "belinda", exist SOLELY BECAUSE of what 'that' body has PREVIOUSLY EXPERIENCED.

If that body 'experienced' just one solitary tiny little single 'thing' DIFFERENTLY, then 'that' "belinda" WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT.

What makes 'you', human beings, individually SO SPECIAL and SO UNIQUE is SOLELY due to the Fact that individual and UNIQUE human 'body', which 'you' ALL individually and uniquely are WITHIN, has had UNIQUE and SPECIAL, INDIVIDUAL, 'experiences', of which some NO one "else" could have EVERY HAD.

And this is 'what' makes 'you', ALL, literally, 'individuals', and UNIQUELY SPECIAL. BUT, what makes 'you' ALL, the EXACT SAME, is that 'you' have ALL come 'to be' from the EXACT SAME 'thing', namely A 'human body', which have ALL had the EXACT SAME 'experiences', namely; being conceived, being born, coming INTO this Life, and 'experiencing' this EXACT SAME Life, or Universe.
Age and I agree that
"If that body 'experienced' just one solitary tiny little single 'thing' DIFFERENTLY, then 'that' "belinda" WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT. "

It's like saying that each individual is a separate individual because each individual is a different perspective/experience on time and space.
I would say that 'it' is NOT like saying that much AT ALL.

What 'it' is ACTUALLY 'like' saying, is DIFFERENT, to 'me'. 'It' is like saying; if 'you' were in a different body, then 'you' would just be DIFFERENT.

Or, 'it' is like saying, each 'individual' IS, the WAY that 'it' is, SOLELY BECAUSE they are ALL in DIFFERENT and INDIVIDUAL 'bodies'.

And, if 'you' want to use the 'time' and 'space' words here now, then what do those words mean or refer to, to 'you', the one known here as "belinda"?
Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am In the case that all perspectives are perceived/experienced including perspectives of other animal and vegetable species, that is called absolute perspective/experience.
BUT that is the WAY 'you' talk and use words here, and NOT the way that I would ever talk and use words here.

'your' WAY, to 'me', seems to COMPLICATE and CONFUSE what is, ESSENTIALLY, Truly SIMPLE and EASY to COMPREHEND, UNDERSTAND, and KNOW.
Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am There are ways to get closer to another perspective namely the arts, and loving relationships.But no two perspectives can be the same perspective. This is the tragedy of human life.
What do 'you' mean by 'the arts' is A 'perspective'?
"----there is ONLY ONE physical body that THAT "belinda" inhabits and dwells." I agree this is an irrefutable fact. Also an irrefutable fact is the Belinda body is identified by other people such as police by dentition records, DNA profile,finger prints, and possession of documents. The Belinda personal memories to which only Belinda self-type memories have access are how B identifies self. If B memories should get lost through some accident the B memories since the accident can identify the B-self from the objective sources I listed above. The self -experience known to you as Age is also an experience.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:42 pm But 'what' answer am I, SUPPOSEDLY, 'looking for'?

I was here just asking 'you', ALONE, and with NO PRECONCEPTION AT ALL of what 'your' answer would be.
Well I did respond to the question, and if you had no preconseptions about the sort of answer you required, why bother bringing the matter up?
Age wrote:
Harbal wrote: This, to me, is an example of a situation that tends to be an obstacle when we try to think about what the reality of a particular set of circumstances might be.
BUT 'the question', and thus 'the answer', is in regards to 'you', "harbal", ONLY.
It makes no difference who or what the question was in regard to. You asked me about something that we do not have an agreed common definition of. Something, in fact, that I doubt there could be an absolute definition of. The "something" that I am referring to is "self", btw.
'you' just include the 'human body' as part of a 'person', 'self', or 'you', correct?

If yes, then 'you' also just say that it does NOT matter how much of 'you' is 'not there' or 'has gone', 'you' would still NOT say that 'you' were 'less of' a 'person', but just that 'you' FEEL 'less of a person', correct?
I'm sorry, but I don't know how to answer that.
But 'you' did say 'it', and I WAS just trying to gain CLARIFIED. But if you do NOT want to continue, then that is okay.
I can't give you clarification, because what I said was inapropriate to our discussion. But, again, if it is okay that I responded in the way that I did, why complicate things by bringing it up again?
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote in a reply to Harbal:
But, if the physical body is part of the identity of 'you', a 'person', and/or 'self', then let us say that if an arm or a leg is 'lost' in an accident, on 'that' physical human body, then do 'you' then become less of a 'person', less of a 'self', or just 'less then'?
I think the feeling of being a self is all or nothing. You may feel loss of self esteem or loss of self confidence if you lose an arm or a leg, but you still feel you are yourself . I think young babies and most animals have no sense of self.When a baby means it when he says "No!" to other people he then understands he is an individual self.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm
Age wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:33 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am

Age and I agree that
"If that body 'experienced' just one solitary tiny little single 'thing' DIFFERENTLY, then 'that' "belinda" WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT. "

It's like saying that each individual is a separate individual because each individual is a different perspective/experience on time and space.
I would say that 'it' is NOT like saying that much AT ALL.

What 'it' is ACTUALLY 'like' saying, is DIFFERENT, to 'me'. 'It' is like saying; if 'you' were in a different body, then 'you' would just be DIFFERENT.

Or, 'it' is like saying, each 'individual' IS, the WAY that 'it' is, SOLELY BECAUSE they are ALL in DIFFERENT and INDIVIDUAL 'bodies'.

And, if 'you' want to use the 'time' and 'space' words here now, then what do those words mean or refer to, to 'you', the one known here as "belinda"?
Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am In the case that all perspectives are perceived/experienced including perspectives of other animal and vegetable species, that is called absolute perspective/experience.
BUT that is the WAY 'you' talk and use words here, and NOT the way that I would ever talk and use words here.

'your' WAY, to 'me', seems to COMPLICATE and CONFUSE what is, ESSENTIALLY, Truly SIMPLE and EASY to COMPREHEND, UNDERSTAND, and KNOW.
Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am There are ways to get closer to another perspective namely the arts, and loving relationships.But no two perspectives can be the same perspective. This is the tragedy of human life.
What do 'you' mean by 'the arts' is A 'perspective'?
"----there is ONLY ONE physical body that THAT "belinda" inhabits and dwells." I agree this is an irrefutable fact. Also an irrefutable fact is the Belinda body is identified by other people such as police by dentition records, DNA profile,finger prints, and possession of documents.
Along with ALL of the "other" "belinda" named and labeled human bodies.
Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm The Belinda personal memories to which only Belinda self-type memories have access are how B identifies self.
But let us NOT forget that absolutely EVERY one of those so-called "belinda" named 'personal memories' exist SOLELY and ONLY because of what the 'senses' of that one unique and individual 'human body' have 'experienced', and for NO other reason AT ALL.

Therefore, the 'memories' or 'thoughts', which make THAT 'one', which is named with the relatively common "belinda" label, unique and/or A 'person' or 'personal' is because of that individual 'bodies' previous past experiences, ALONE.
Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm If B memories should get lost through some accident the B memories since the accident can identify the B-self from the objective sources I listed above. The self -experience known to you as Age is also an experience.
Okay.

Now, is there some particular 'point' 'you' want to express here, or get to, EXACTLY?
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:42 pm
Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:42 pm But 'what' answer am I, SUPPOSEDLY, 'looking for'?

I was here just asking 'you', ALONE, and with NO PRECONCEPTION AT ALL of what 'your' answer would be.
Well I did respond to the question, and if you had no preconseptions about the sort of answer you required, why bother bringing the matter up?
To OBTAIN and GAIN CLARITY from the 'thinking' WITHIN 'that body'.

It is through this type of 'communication' WHERE and HOW KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING is SHARED, and WHY KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING keeps moving or progressing FORWARDS, and FURTHER.

'human beings', literally, learn MORE and ANEW from EACH OTHER.

And, the simplest, quickest, most efficient, easiest, and thus the BEST WAY to LEARN MORE, and also BECOME WISER, is to just SHARE the 'thoughts' and 'thinking' that are WITHIN 'bodies' in A Truly Honest and OPEN WAY.

By the way, the ONLY 'sort of answer' I required was the MOST Honest and OPEN answer 'you' HAD, or HAVE.

Also, 'you' did 'respond' the question I asked 'you', but, as can be clearly seen, 'you' responded in a way answering for EVERY one, INSTEAD of answering just for 'you' ALONE, which was 'the answer' I was SEEKING and ASKING for.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:42 pm
Age wrote:
Harbal wrote: This, to me, is an example of a situation that tends to be an obstacle when we try to think about what the reality of a particular set of circumstances might be.
BUT 'the question', and thus 'the answer', is in regards to 'you', "harbal", ONLY.
It makes no difference who or what the question was in regard to.
BUT it does FOR 'me'.

See, if, for example, I ask 'you' a question in regards to 'you' ALONE, but 'you' provide an answer or response regarding ANY one ELSE, then that makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE to 'me' AND to what the question WAS in regards to EXACTLY.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:42 pm You asked me about something that we do not have an agreed common definition of.
I may of somewhere ELSE, but in regards to what these words are following on from DIRECTLY, the 'thing' that I, specifically, asked you about was:

But, if the physical body is part of the identity of 'you', a 'person', and/or 'self', then let us say that if an arm or a leg is 'lost' in an accident, on 'that' physical human body, then do 'you' then become less of a 'person', less of a 'self', or just 'less then'?

Now, and Honestly, I could have done a much better job at making this question SOLELY about 'you', "harbal", ALONE. So, I APOLOGIZE for NOT being MORE CLEAR here.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:42 pm Something, in fact, that I doubt there could be an absolute definition of. The "something" that I am referring to is "self", btw.
Okay, that is fair enough. 'you' DOUBT that there could be an absolute definition of the 'self' word. I, however, KNOW there is ONE, and ONE that FITS IN PERFECTLY with ALL of the other definitions of 'words', which FORMS a Truly IRREFUTABLE CRYSTAL CLEAR Picture of Life, and living. Itself.

However, that is besides THE POINT. THE POINT here was I just asked 'you' about what would happen to 'you', EXACTLY, and DIRECTLY, if some 'thing' happened, and 'your' Truly OPEN and Honest answer was ALL that I was seeking.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:42 pm
'you' just include the 'human body' as part of a 'person', 'self', or 'you', correct?

If yes, then 'you' also just say that it does NOT matter how much of 'you' is 'not there' or 'has gone', 'you' would still NOT say that 'you' were 'less of' a 'person', but just that 'you' FEEL 'less of a person', correct?
I'm sorry, but I don't know how to answer that.
Okay, no worries AT ALL.

Thank you for 'your' Truly OPEN and Honest answer here.

When I say, I just seek a Truly OPEN and Honest answer, then the three words, 'I don't know', I much PREFER to see and hear, than to see or hear ANY of the OTHER non ABSOLUTE so-called 'truths' and 'answers' that get TOLD.

For example, if 'you' had just written, 'I would feel less of a person', INSTEAD of writing, 'anyone would feel less of a person', then this would be far MORE CLOSER to answering thee ACTUAL QUESTION I posed and asked, Truthfully, although NOT ALL of the way 'there', YET.

Also, IF 'you' had answered 'that way' INSTEAD, then we could have MOVED ON and been MUCH FURTHER FORWARD than 'we' currently are 'now'.
Harbal wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:42 pm
But 'you' did say 'it', and I WAS just trying to gain CLARIFIED. But if you do NOT want to continue, then that is okay.
I can't give you clarification, because what I said was inapropriate to our discussion. But, again, if it is okay that I responded in the way that I did, why complicate things by bringing it up again?
What IS 'okay' IS IF 'you' do NOT want to continue ANYMORE.

Absolutely NO one is FORCING 'you' to do absolutely ANY 'thing' here. So, if 'you' do not want to continue, then that is all well and good, or okay.

However, unless the way 'you' responded in a Truly OPEN and Honest WAY, then I do NOT find 'that' okay.

The reason WHY I brought 'things' up again, is because I prefer Truly OPEN and Honest answers, to the ACTUAL question I pose and ask, instead of DEFLECTING answers. As I just said previously I MUCH PREFER to hear and see the words, 'I do not know', then some LESS THAN absolute Honest answer.
Belinda
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:26 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm
Age wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:33 pm

I would say that 'it' is NOT like saying that much AT ALL.

What 'it' is ACTUALLY 'like' saying, is DIFFERENT, to 'me'. 'It' is like saying; if 'you' were in a different body, then 'you' would just be DIFFERENT.

Or, 'it' is like saying, each 'individual' IS, the WAY that 'it' is, SOLELY BECAUSE they are ALL in DIFFERENT and INDIVIDUAL 'bodies'.

And, if 'you' want to use the 'time' and 'space' words here now, then what do those words mean or refer to, to 'you', the one known here as "belinda"?


BUT that is the WAY 'you' talk and use words here, and NOT the way that I would ever talk and use words here.

'your' WAY, to 'me', seems to COMPLICATE and CONFUSE what is, ESSENTIALLY, Truly SIMPLE and EASY to COMPREHEND, UNDERSTAND, and KNOW.


What do 'you' mean by 'the arts' is A 'perspective'?
"----there is ONLY ONE physical body that THAT "belinda" inhabits and dwells." I agree this is an irrefutable fact. Also an irrefutable fact is the Belinda body is identified by other people such as police by dentition records, DNA profile,finger prints, and possession of documents.
Along with ALL of the "other" "belinda" named and labeled human bodies.
Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm The Belinda personal memories to which only Belinda self-type memories have access are how B identifies self.
But let us NOT forget that absolutely EVERY one of those so-called "belinda" named 'personal memories' exist SOLELY and ONLY because of what the 'senses' of that one unique and individual 'human body' have 'experienced', and for NO other reason AT ALL.

Therefore, the 'memories' or 'thoughts', which make THAT 'one', which is named with the relatively common "belinda" label, unique and/or A 'person' or 'personal' is because of that individual 'bodies' previous past experiences, ALONE.
Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm If B memories should get lost through some accident the B memories since the accident can identify the B-self from the objective sources I listed above. The self -experience known to you as Age is also an experience.
Okay.

Now, is there some particular 'point' 'you' want to express here, or get to, EXACTLY?
The point I want to express is that the whole world that we think is real is created by minds. And the secondary point I want to make is that so-called 'minds' are not tangible things but are bundles of experiences.

Thank you Age for thinking about all this and for your thoughtful critiques. The philosophical stance I try to explain is fairly new to me and I have to deliberately focus on it to understand it. Your objection about the reality of experience of the body is a case in point. I'm not saying the body and sentience are not real, but that the body and sentience are experiences, and experiences are all we can know.
Age
Posts: 20043
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am
Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:26 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm
"----there is ONLY ONE physical body that THAT "belinda" inhabits and dwells." I agree this is an irrefutable fact. Also an irrefutable fact is the Belinda body is identified by other people such as police by dentition records, DNA profile,finger prints, and possession of documents.
Along with ALL of the "other" "belinda" named and labeled human bodies.
Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm The Belinda personal memories to which only Belinda self-type memories have access are how B identifies self.
But let us NOT forget that absolutely EVERY one of those so-called "belinda" named 'personal memories' exist SOLELY and ONLY because of what the 'senses' of that one unique and individual 'human body' have 'experienced', and for NO other reason AT ALL.

Therefore, the 'memories' or 'thoughts', which make THAT 'one', which is named with the relatively common "belinda" label, unique and/or A 'person' or 'personal' is because of that individual 'bodies' previous past experiences, ALONE.
Belinda wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:06 pm If B memories should get lost through some accident the B memories since the accident can identify the B-self from the objective sources I listed above. The self -experience known to you as Age is also an experience.
Okay.

Now, is there some particular 'point' 'you' want to express here, or get to, EXACTLY?
The point I want to express is that the whole world that we think is real is created by minds.
And, if 'I' was to ask 'you' what are these 'mind' things, EXACTLY, and WHERE do they exist, EXACTLY, then what would 'your' answers BE?

Also, do NOT forget that ALL of 'them' MUST OF BEEN EXISTING BEFORE the 'whole world' WAS CREATED.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am And the secondary point I want to make is that so-called 'minds' are not tangible things but are bundles of experiences.
But HOW, EXACTLY, could a so-called 'bundle of experiences' EXIST BEFORE there was even a 'whole world' EXISTING.

I suggest BEFORE 'you', human beings, even BEGIN to START making CLAIMS that 'you' OBTAIN IRREFUTABLE PROOF BEFORE 'you' make the CLAIMS PUBLIC.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am Thank you Age for thinking about all this and for your thoughtful critiques.
You are WELCOME.

I do this out of ENJOYMENT so there is REALLY NOTHING to thank me for here.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am The philosophical stance I try to explain is fairly new to me and I have to deliberately focus on it to understand it. Your objection about the reality of experience of the body is a case in point. I'm not saying the body and sentience are not real, but that the body and sentience are experiences, and experiences are all we can know.
Who and/or what does the 'we' word refer to here, EXACTLY?
Belinda
Posts: 8032
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Reincarnation

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 am
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am
Age wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:26 pm

Along with ALL of the "other" "belinda" named and labeled human bodies.



But let us NOT forget that absolutely EVERY one of those so-called "belinda" named 'personal memories' exist SOLELY and ONLY because of what the 'senses' of that one unique and individual 'human body' have 'experienced', and for NO other reason AT ALL.

Therefore, the 'memories' or 'thoughts', which make THAT 'one', which is named with the relatively common "belinda" label, unique and/or A 'person' or 'personal' is because of that individual 'bodies' previous past experiences, ALONE.


Okay.

Now, is there some particular 'point' 'you' want to express here, or get to, EXACTLY?
The point I want to express is that the whole world that we think is real is created by minds.
And, if 'I' was to ask 'you' what are these 'mind' things, EXACTLY, and WHERE do they exist, EXACTLY, then what would 'your' answers BE?

Also, do NOT forget that ALL of 'them' MUST OF BEEN EXISTING BEFORE the 'whole world' WAS CREATED.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am And the secondary point I want to make is that so-called 'minds' are not tangible things but are bundles of experiences.
But HOW, EXACTLY, could a so-called 'bundle of experiences' EXIST BEFORE there was even a 'whole world' EXISTING.

I suggest BEFORE 'you', human beings, even BEGIN to START making CLAIMS that 'you' OBTAIN IRREFUTABLE PROOF BEFORE 'you' make the CLAIMS PUBLIC.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am Thank you Age for thinking about all this and for your thoughtful critiques.
You are WELCOME.

I do this out of ENJOYMENT so there is REALLY NOTHING to thank me for here.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am The philosophical stance I try to explain is fairly new to me and I have to deliberately focus on it to understand it. Your objection about the reality of experience of the body is a case in point. I'm not saying the body and sentience are not real, but that the body and sentience are experiences, and experiences are all we can know.
Who and/or what does the 'we' word refer to here, EXACTLY?
Touche! I'd better have written "experiences are all that can be known."
popeye1945
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Reincarnation

Post by popeye1945 »

With complete loss of memory there is still a basic identification with an anonymous I. Where you do not know who you are or who anyone else is, you just know that you're alive and it feels pretty dam good.
Age
Posts: 20043
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:06 pm
Age wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 am
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am
The point I want to express is that the whole world that we think is real is created by minds.
And, if 'I' was to ask 'you' what are these 'mind' things, EXACTLY, and WHERE do they exist, EXACTLY, then what would 'your' answers BE?

Also, do NOT forget that ALL of 'them' MUST OF BEEN EXISTING BEFORE the 'whole world' WAS CREATED.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am And the secondary point I want to make is that so-called 'minds' are not tangible things but are bundles of experiences.
But HOW, EXACTLY, could a so-called 'bundle of experiences' EXIST BEFORE there was even a 'whole world' EXISTING.

I suggest BEFORE 'you', human beings, even BEGIN to START making CLAIMS that 'you' OBTAIN IRREFUTABLE PROOF BEFORE 'you' make the CLAIMS PUBLIC.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am Thank you Age for thinking about all this and for your thoughtful critiques.
You are WELCOME.

I do this out of ENJOYMENT so there is REALLY NOTHING to thank me for here.
Belinda wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:20 am The philosophical stance I try to explain is fairly new to me and I have to deliberately focus on it to understand it. Your objection about the reality of experience of the body is a case in point. I'm not saying the body and sentience are not real, but that the body and sentience are experiences, and experiences are all we can know.
Who and/or what does the 'we' word refer to here, EXACTLY?
Touche! I'd better have written "experiences are all that can be known."
To 'me', this makes far more sense.

This also translates to, 'ALL knowledge comes from past experiences', which is an irrefutable Fact as being the reason why to NEVER 'blame' ANY one if they do NOT YET KNOW some 'thing'. If 'one' has NEVER 'experienced' some 'thing', then HOW, EXACTLY, could that 'one' EVER be EXPECTED to KNOW or 'it' or have ANY actual 'knowledge' about 'it'. For example, I would NEVER EXPECT 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written to KNOW or have ANY knowledge AT ALL about HOW to live in Peace and in Harmony with one "another", as One, BECAUSE absolutely NONE of 'you' have 'experienced' this 'way of life' YET. The EXACT SAME as I would NEVER EXPECT previous to these days when this is being written the human beings, back then, to KNOW or have ANY knowledge of living with computers and the internet, flying machines, motor vehicles, electricity, and all of the other 'things' and 'way of living' that 'you', human beings, are continuing CREATING, and LEARNING about.

See, I could NEVER, REALLY, FULLY EXPLAIN, SUCCESSFULLY, to 'you', human beings, about how 'you' WILL BE, soon enough, living with the internet, airplanes, space rockets, satellites, cell phones, videos, global positioning systems, robots, artificial intelligence, and self driving cars before what is called the 1900's. I would NEVER EXPECT 'them' to UNDERSTAND FULLY. EXACTLY like I do NOT EXPECT 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written to FULLY UNDERSTAND how 'you' WILL BE, very soon enough, living in a Truly Peaceful AND Harmonious 'world' WITH "one another" as One. It will ONLY be when 'young children' living WITHIN this 'way of life', and when babies are born into this EXACT 'way of life', that 'they' will THEN 'experience' this 'way of life and living', and so WILL LEARN 'this way of life and living', and this will will NOT ONLY BECOME KNOWN, but will be TAUGHT, Naturally, to the 'young', who WILL, AGAIN Naturally, pass on this 'knowledge', and KNOWING, 'way of life' onto ALL future generations, who WILL have 'this' KNOWING and 'knowledge', Naturally. Also, ALL of these 'future generations' will come to think or BELIEVE that they could NOT live WITHOUT Peace and WITHOUT Harmony, just like ALL of the 'younger human beings' and 'older children' 'now', in the day that this IS written think or BELIEVE that they could NOT live WITHOUT their phones and the internet.

'Past experiences' of a human body, literally, becomes what is KNOWN, or 'knowledge', which is stored with, or within, the brain, as 'thoughts', themselves.
Age
Posts: 20043
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

popeye1945 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:42 pm With complete loss of memory there is still a basic identification with an anonymous I. Where you do not know who you are or who anyone else is, you just know that you're alive and it feels pretty dam good.
Some people with 'loss of memory' appear to get 'confused' and/or somewhat 'irritable', which, from what I have observed, is NOT that so-called 'dam good' AT ALL.
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