Reincarnation

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Walker
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Walker »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:40 am
And, what does the word 'ilk' mean or refer to, to 'you'?
As do Elks, Ilks share reincarnated qualities. Because humans have the big brains compared to their total form mass, Human Ilks share both delusionally-flavoured qualities that are variations of incarnated qualities, and like Elks, Humans also share un-corrupted incarnated qualities.

Those of the same Ilk usually need to no introduction to one another as they recognize one another, which is why elephants can distinguish particular elephants of same elephant ilk, as can humans of the human ilk.

However humans, because of big-brained delusions generated by energetic frequencies, can easily become confused about ilkiness. In general, the big delusion causing confusion is to perceive (in your bones) the impermanent as the morepermanent, and we're not talking about hair just in case you ask.

- The impermanent is form, i.e. the body to which "I" attaches.
- The morepermanent is the quality that is reincarnated.
- When "I" attaches to a quality, the quality becomes a self-concept, often vigorously defended.
- For instance, through various modes of hearing, a form may be heard to declare, "I ain't spiritual!" This is a declaration of self-concept, and if the form was a bird making the same declaration, it would be heard as a birdsong.
- Through various modes of hearing affected by qualities, a form may also perceive ... gibberish, or drivel. :(

:|
Walker
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Walker »

Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:39 am
What a load of absolute drivel. :?
Dear Harbal,

I know that the hostile conditions we have created by insulting one another have closed your ears, Harbal.

That's my fault for purposely translating your good-natured ribbing into an extension of its logical progression, by employing the quality of unfairness for that deliberate purpose, for you to transcend with fairness.

It's a tough row to hoe, ain't it.

The way I see, your experience of my unfairness, should give you an appreciation of how Christians deal with persecution.

That it has closed your ears, is your fault.
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Harbal
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:10 am But anyway, yes it is this invisible part of the 'human being', which 'i' say does keep on living as that 'person' has had an influence on other invisible people, as well as on the visible physical world too. Every 'person's' existence continues to have an influence in one way or another on 'the world'. Some more so than others, and this is part of what the story of 'jesus' is, literally, about. Again, some people have more of an influence than others, for example, some people are more influenced, or know more about, that one person known as "jesus christ" than they do of their own grandmother and/or grandfather. But again the story of and about the 'person' "jesus christ" has come 'through', and has been 'passed on' from, grandparents or previously 'related persons' or 'acquaintances', anyway.
But some of what we think we know about Jesus is bound to be incorrect. There will inevitably be some historic figures of whom almost everything we think we know will be incorrect. And what about figures who never existed but some people think did exist, like Robin Hood, for example?

I'm not saying this invalidates your idea of the soul and how it continues on after physical death, but it seems to muddy the water a bit.

Also, I agree that our thoughts will leave a lasting impression on the world in as much as the world will be altered to some extent because of them, but the same could be said of a loose boulder rolling down a mountain side. What would you say is the most significant distinction between those two instances?
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Harbal
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Harbal »

Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:08 am
Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:39 am
What a load of absolute drivel. :?
Dear Harbal,

I know that the hostile conditions we have created by insulting one another have closed your ears, Harbal.

That's my fault for purposely translating your good-natured ribbing into an extension of its logical progression, by employing the quality of unfairness for that deliberate purpose, for you to transcend with fairness.

It's a tough row to hoe, ain't it.

The way I see, your experience of my unfairness, should give you an appreciation of how Christians deal with persecution.

That it has closed your ears, is your fault.
I think the greatest thing about this forum is the degree of free expression it allows, and I would consider it a waste to not take full advantage of that facility. I hope this helps to explain my conduct. :wink:
Walker
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Walker »

Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:20 am I think the greatest thing about this forum is the degree of free expression it allows, and I would consider it a waste to not take full advantage of that facility. I hope this helps to explain my conduct. :wink:
- Harbal, take heart.
- Your birdsong before my unfairness was the wise of heart.
- By being unfair, I the fool became your servant.
- I shall inherent the wind of PN for troubling the house of your ilk with unfairness.

- This is not blasphemy, for I say it with sincerity uncommon to Yorkshire. If you can’t hear the meaning, then as Elvis advises us, don’t be cruel to a heart that’s true.

- After the unfairness you experienced, I invite you (plural) to amplify your hearing with energy.

- You really can’t get any more energy. Your form now holds all it can hold now, and even Shelley’s monster could only hold a finite charge.

- You could reapply the energy that you have stored from the sun, to your hearing.
- However, the body need not be just a battery that stores energy.

- The body can be seen as a conduit through which energy flows, like an automobile carriage.
- This conduit-approach is why skinny little jiu jitsu farts can toss big fellas around …

- … and it’s why all that stored energy in elephants is just slowin’ ‘em down.
Age
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:39 am
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:28 am
Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:40 am

WHY are these so-called 'qualities' called 'reincarnated' and NOT just 'exist'.
Because the qualities, which are called qualities to distinguish them from the chaos via characteristics, exist amongst different forms. When one form dies, the quality moves onto another form. Two forms may share the same qualities, but then again two forms may not. In those that do, the qualities exist.

These are not learned qualities, but rather the qualities that get reincarnated. One might call them, aptitudes.

The qualities cause experiences that exist, and these qualities are distinguished from the chaos via apprehension that is shaped by the qualities.

The less corrupted the quality by human induced delusions, the more recognizable it is other forms. When both forms are uncorrupted, the qualities are apparant. This is why saints can be recognized from form-to-form, by those with saint-recognition aptitude.

For example:
- The qualities of one form will turn an experience of a condition into an opportunity to question others.
- In another form, the qualities of that form will cause the same condition experienced by the other qualities, to be experienced as an opportunity to question oneself.
What a load of absolute drivel. :?
And I thought I might be the only one who has absolutely NO idea what this is about?

I do NOT know what other question I could ask now for clarification, obviously my first one FAILED tremendously.
Belinda
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:34 am
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:06 am
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:49 pm

The body is an experience of awareness not the body. When the body dies then there is no more experience of body since the knowing awareness of the experience of body will be offline too.

When there’s no body, then there is no awareness of experience of body. So the idea that there is an experience of body outlasting the death of the body is absurd.
There is not just one experience of one body, there is experience of all bodies.
When 'you' say, 'there is experience of all bodies', do 'you' mean 'all bodies experience', or do 'you', literally, mean, 'there is experience of all bodies'?

If it is the former, then okay. I agree.

But if it is the latter, then who or what is doing the 'experiencing' of all bodies'?
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:06 am If there are no bodies to confine experiences to, then all experiences exist unseparated from each other by skin and nervous systems and so on.
Oh, when 'you' say 'bodies' do 'you' just mean or refer to human 'bodies' and/or animal 'bodies' only?
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:06 am The absolute is like as if all living beings shared the same nervous systems and had the same memories as each other, so there is nothing that keeps experiences limited to individuals.
What is sometimes referred to as 'The Absolute', or 'God', or 'Allah', or 'The Spirit', or 'Enlightenment', or many OTHER words, phrases, and/or terms, then ALL 'living beings' are A part of This One, sharing the EXACT SAME 'body', that is; just, literally, the 'body' of 'physical matter'. BUT, NOT all 'living beings', like 'you', human beings, share the SAME 'memories', BECAUSE 'you' are ALL EACH WITHIN DIFFERENT 'human bodies', which have EACH, literally, had their VERY OWN DIFFERENT 'experiences', from which, through any of the five senses is WHERE 'memory' has come from. Although within EACH 'body' there is NOT the EXACT SAME 'memory' there IS, however, A WAY to 'sense' or KNOW 'the world/Universe' FROM the 'perspective' of 'that SEPARATE body of matter'. But I think there is far MORE to be LEARNED, and UNDERSTOOD, before 'we' move onto that 'learning' and 'knowledge'.

Also, BECAUSE the EXACT SAME 'Life source or energy' IS WITHIN ALL 'matter', then ALL 'bodies', or 'shapes' and 'forms', of 'matter' HAS ACCESS to that EXACT SAME One. It is also from This One WHERE ALL, and IRREFUTABLE, Knowing EXISTS, and COMES FROM.
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:06 am Experiences happened and can't be un-experienced, even if all life on Earth suddenly stopped
Okay, but there has to be SOME 'thing' that IS DOING 'the experiencing', and WHO and WHAT 'That' is, EXACTLY, IS VERY EXCITING to LEARN and DISCOVER.
Age and Harbal(who asked the same question further back in the discussion)
The thing- that- seems- to- be -experiencing is itself a bundle of experiences. Your right hand is known to you by nothing other than experience. If you substitute 'right hand' for any other bit of what you consider to be you, including memories,arms, legs, eyesight, dreams, hopes, fears, loves, hates, information received, intentions for the future: all are known to you by experience and nothing but experience.There is no 'you' which is other than a bundle of experiences.

But there must be something that makes the bundle of Belinda -type experiences stick together! Yes, there is! What makes Belinda experiences hold together is the fact that they are confined to a specific slot in space-time that no other bundle of experiences can occupy.
Belinda
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Belinda »

Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:58 am

But for there to be an experience, someone or something has to be experiencing, so once the experiencer no longer exists how can the experience exist?
Qualities are not unique to any one form, but are reincarnated into other forms.

The other forms are called ilks.
But the quality of a specific DNA profile is not repeatable from a dead human to a newborn rat. The quality of perfect dentition of some corpse is not transferred to a newborn of the same or any other species. The quality of truthfulness is not transferable from a dead person to a living person unless the living person is nurtured by other living persons.
Age
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am
Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:40 am
And, what does the word 'ilk' mean or refer to, to 'you'?
As do Elks, Ilks share reincarnated qualities. Because humans have the big brains compared to their total form mass, Human Ilks share both delusionally-flavoured qualities that are variations of incarnated qualities, and like Elks, Humans also share un-corrupted incarnated qualities.

Those of the same Ilk usually need to no introduction to one another as they recognize one another, which is why elephants can distinguish particular elephants of same elephant ilk, as can humans of the human ilk.
LOL
LOL
LOL

What are the different elephant 'ilks'?

And, if 'you' are of the 'human ilk', then HOW do 'you', supposedly, KNOW there are DIFFERENT elephant 'ilks' and that elephants can distinguish PARTICULAR elephants of the SAME so-called 'elephant ilk', from the OTHER elephants of a DIFFERENT 'ilk'?
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am However humans, because of big-brained delusions generated by energetic frequencies, can easily become confused about ilkiness.
But do 'you', "walker", of some sized brain, have delusions and/or become confused about 'ilkiness', like, for example, so-called 'elephant ilkiness'? Or, does this NEVER happen to 'you'?
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am In general, the big delusion causing confusion is to perceive (in your bones) the impermanent as the morepermanent, and we're not talking about hair just in case you ask.
Now 'what' in this WHOLE Universe would make 'you' ASSUME that I would ask 'you' absolutely ANY thing about if 'you' were talking about 'hair' here?

In case you have some interest what I was REALLY wondering about is how absolutely ANY one could perceive some 'thing', in human bones.(But I am NEVER going to ask you for clarification about this.)

When I read that, apparently very confused sentence, what I was also wondering about was:
1. What this so-called 'big delusion' is, EXACTLY.
2. How that, supposed, 'big delusion' causes 'confusion'
3. What the 'confusion' is, EXACTLY.
4. If it could be 'the confusion' that came first, which THEN caused the 'big delusion'
5.Who perceives ANY thing, in human bones
6. Who perceives the 'impermant' as being 'more permanent'
7. What 'more permanent' even means, or refers to, EXACTLY
8. Why ANY one would perceive 'that', let alone could perceive 'that'
9 . What is the 'thing' is, EXACTLY, that you say is 'impermanent', and which you are referring to here

But, just like the very 'thing' that I was REALLY wondering about I am NEVER going to ask you to clarify ANY of these as well.

Oh, and by the way, there was absolutely NO wondering AT ALL about if 'you' were talking about 'hair' or not. That was; UNTIL 'you' mentioned the 'hair' word, and then what ACTUALLY HAPPENED, if 'you' are at all interested, is I did NOT wonder ANY thing for a little while anyway, as I was just too busy laughing when I read that.
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am - The impermanent is form, i.e. the body to which "I" attaches.
But which 'body' to which 'you' attach 'I' to?
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am - The morepermanent is the quality that is reincarnated.
But I do NOT know of ANY 'quality', which is so-called 'reincarnated', in the way 'reincarnated' is sometimes defined as.
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am - When "I" attaches to a quality, the quality becomes a self-concept, often vigorously defended.
Who and/or what is this 'I' 'Thing', EXACTLY, which 'you' talk about here, and which, supposedly, attaches Itself to a so-called 'quality'?
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am - For instance, through various modes of hearing, a form may be heard to declare, "I ain't spiritual!"
How many modes of 'hearing' are there, EXACTLY, besides the mode through the ears?

And, how many 'forms' are there, and what are these 'forms' made up of, EXACTLY, which 'declare' things like, 'I ain't spiritual'?
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am This is a declaration of self-concept, and if the form was a bird making the same declaration, it would be heard as a birdsong.
But not if that 'declaration' was being made by a bird making that 'declaration' in a human being language, like some birds can do.

And, do 'you' REALLY think or BELIEVE that there would be A bird throughout ALL of bird history that has made the 'declaration', 'I ain't spiritual', in its own native language?
Walker wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:56 am - Through various modes of hearing affected by qualities, a form may also perceive ... gibberish, or drivel. :(

:|
When 'you' use the 'qualities' word, like 'you' have just here again now, what are 'you' actually meaning or referring to, EXACTLY?

By the way, feel FREE to provide some examples if 'you' like.
Age
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:14 am
Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:10 am But anyway, yes it is this invisible part of the 'human being', which 'i' say does keep on living as that 'person' has had an influence on other invisible people, as well as on the visible physical world too. Every 'person's' existence continues to have an influence in one way or another on 'the world'. Some more so than others, and this is part of what the story of 'jesus' is, literally, about. Again, some people have more of an influence than others, for example, some people are more influenced, or know more about, that one person known as "jesus christ" than they do of their own grandmother and/or grandfather. But again the story of and about the 'person' "jesus christ" has come 'through', and has been 'passed on' from, grandparents or previously 'related persons' or 'acquaintances', anyway.
But some of what we think we know about Jesus is bound to be incorrect.
I would NEVER disagree with this.

But, and as you just put 'it' here, as long as we RECOGNIZE that we ONLY 'think 'we know', and therefore are ADMITTING that 'we are ONLY ASSUMING, and that REALLY we do NOT actually know', then all is well and good.

It is when people profess TO KNOW, when, REALLY, they do NOT YET have thee ACTUAL PROOF, when things become UNRAVELED, and NOT REVEALED.
Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:14 am There will inevitably be some historic figures of whom almost everything we think we know will be incorrect.
WHY do you think or BELIEVE 'almost everything'?

Obviously, if one can NOT know, for sure, about what they 'think they know', then there is NO WAY of KNOWING if that what 'they think they know' is correct or not correct, correct?

Also, 'correctness' was NEVER a point I was making. The 'point' was that the 'invisible thoughts' from within one human body, which could be what the word 'soul' was actually once referring to, DO get 'passed on' and 'into' other human bodies. So, in a sense, those 'invisible things' that were once within one human body is STILL HERE, alive or existing, in this Universe, WITHIN other human bodies.

So, this is 'what' and 'where' the 'soul' IS, EXACTLY, to 'me', which was what was being asked for, for clarification, if I recall correctly.

As for 'correctness' or 'incorrectness' of the 'thoughts' and 'thinking' within human body, then was NOT be questioned, if I recall correctly, and was NEVER ANY thing I was making a 'point' about here, again, without reading back, and IF I recall correctly.

As for the accuracy and/or correctness of 'thoughts' being 'passed on', then the FAILING of this can be demonstrated VERY EASILY and SIMPLY, and VERY ACCURATELY through the game of what is called 'chinese whispers', or the 'telephone game'.

The accuracy or correctness of 'passing on' the 'thoughts' or 'thinking' from 'one' to "another" in just a few minutes or seconds is FALLIBLE, let alone through generation after generation. So, what REALLY happened, in the days when a relatively more or better known person called "jesus christ" was living, 'we', in the days when this was being written, and after, will REALLY NEVER KNOW, for sure.
Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:14 am And what about figures who never existed but some people think did exist, like Robin Hood, for example?
Was the 'story' about "robin hood" about, or in reference, to "another" human being or acted or behaved in a way similar?

Could the 'story' about "jesus christ" actually be about some "other person" with some "other name" who behaved or acted in 'that way'? In fact could it be that there REALLY was NO 'person' AT ALL like 'that', and that 'story' is about A 'figure' who NEVER existed ALSO, like one called "robin hood"? Or, could there have ACTUALLY been a human being with the name and label "robin hood"?

How would 'we', who have NOT had DIRECT EXPERIENCE EVER REALLY KNOW what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth IS, EXACTLY?

The answer is, quite OBVIOUSLY, 'we' NEVER COULD.

So, if 'we' just express the 'things' that 'we' are REALLY NOT SURE about as; JUST "THAT". That is; for example, 'I am NOT sure, but ....', then there will be NO issue AT ALL, and conversely, if 'we' express the 'things' that 'we' are REALLY ARE SURE about as; JUST 'THAT'. That is; for example, 'I am SURE that ...', and HAVE the ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE PROOF, BEFORE 'we' make the CLAIM, then there will be NO issue AT ALL, EITHER.
Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:14 am I'm not saying this invalidates your idea of the soul and how it continues on after physical death, but it seems to muddy the water a bit.
Hopefully, I have just already cleared the 'waters' here a bit.

Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:14 am Also, I agree that our thoughts will leave a lasting impression on the world in as much as the world will be altered to some extent because of them, but the same could be said of a loose boulder rolling down a mountain side. What would you say is the most significant distinction between those two instances?
None really.

If 'that boulder' has made a change, and thus an ever-lasting, visible, 'physical' 'effect' as well as an ever-lasting 'impression' on, 'invisible', 'thought', as 'it' obviously has had as 'we' are talking about this 'loose boulder rolling down a mountain side' now, through 'thought', itself, then there is NO real 'significant distinction'.

If, however, 'we' are talking about the EXACT SAME 'loose boulder', if 'that' REALLY happened, or if the 'accuracy' of 'it' is ABSOLUTE, then that is a whole OTHER matter.
Age
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm
Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:34 am
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:06 am
There is not just one experience of one body, there is experience of all bodies.
When 'you' say, 'there is experience of all bodies', do 'you' mean 'all bodies experience', or do 'you', literally, mean, 'there is experience of all bodies'?

If it is the former, then okay. I agree.

But if it is the latter, then who or what is doing the 'experiencing' of all bodies'?
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:06 am If there are no bodies to confine experiences to, then all experiences exist unseparated from each other by skin and nervous systems and so on.
Oh, when 'you' say 'bodies' do 'you' just mean or refer to human 'bodies' and/or animal 'bodies' only?
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:06 am The absolute is like as if all living beings shared the same nervous systems and had the same memories as each other, so there is nothing that keeps experiences limited to individuals.
What is sometimes referred to as 'The Absolute', or 'God', or 'Allah', or 'The Spirit', or 'Enlightenment', or many OTHER words, phrases, and/or terms, then ALL 'living beings' are A part of This One, sharing the EXACT SAME 'body', that is; just, literally, the 'body' of 'physical matter'. BUT, NOT all 'living beings', like 'you', human beings, share the SAME 'memories', BECAUSE 'you' are ALL EACH WITHIN DIFFERENT 'human bodies', which have EACH, literally, had their VERY OWN DIFFERENT 'experiences', from which, through any of the five senses is WHERE 'memory' has come from. Although within EACH 'body' there is NOT the EXACT SAME 'memory' there IS, however, A WAY to 'sense' or KNOW 'the world/Universe' FROM the 'perspective' of 'that SEPARATE body of matter'. But I think there is far MORE to be LEARNED, and UNDERSTOOD, before 'we' move onto that 'learning' and 'knowledge'.

Also, BECAUSE the EXACT SAME 'Life source or energy' IS WITHIN ALL 'matter', then ALL 'bodies', or 'shapes' and 'forms', of 'matter' HAS ACCESS to that EXACT SAME One. It is also from This One WHERE ALL, and IRREFUTABLE, Knowing EXISTS, and COMES FROM.
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:06 am Experiences happened and can't be un-experienced, even if all life on Earth suddenly stopped
Okay, but there has to be SOME 'thing' that IS DOING 'the experiencing', and WHO and WHAT 'That' is, EXACTLY, IS VERY EXCITING to LEARN and DISCOVER.
Age and Harbal(who asked the same question further back in the discussion)
The thing- that- seems- to- be -experiencing is itself a bundle of experiences.
To 'me', the word 'experience' or 'experiences' refers to 'what' is 'taking place', like; when the weather is 'sunny' or 'raining'.

To 'me', so far, it would be an IMPOSSIBILITY for 'experiences', themselves, or even a 'bundle of experiences' to be 'experiencing' 'things'.

to 'me', it is as SIMPLE as it is just the human body, itself, that 'experiences', (in relation to 'you', human beings). and how the human body 'experiences' is through ANY of the five senses. It is then, through ANY of the five senses, of what 'the body' is 'experiencing', this 'information', if this is what we like 'it', is sent to the brain, where, there is thee Truly OPEN existing, then 'this information' is grasped and/or stored

And then, WHEN the 'information' is added with and/or onto other 'information', then the 'person', within, continues to gradually form, evolve, grow up, and/or mature. Until a time when this 'one' 'person', 'self', 'i', or 'you' starts noticing, becoming 'aware', or let us say, 'becomes conscious' of 'things'. However, it is still NOT this 'one' who NOR what is 'experiencing' and it is always the physical senses of a physical body that is able to 'experience' 'things'.

So, to 'me', it is physical bodies, which have physical senses, that is the 'thing' that 'experiences'.
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm Your right hand is known to you by nothing other than experience. If you substitute 'right hand' for any other bit of what you consider to be you, including memories,arms, legs, eyesight, dreams, hopes, fears, loves, hates, information received, intentions for the future: all are known to you by experience and nothing but experience.
I TOTALLY AGREE.

In fact, to 'me', absolutely EVERY 'thought' comes from the past 'experiences' of the human body. I have even referred to the ASSUMES that 'you', human beings, make and USE, as APE thinking. That is Assumptions made, based on, Past Experiences. And which, by the way, is partly WHY 'you', human beings, have been led, so far ASTRAY.

There is no 'you' which is other than a bundle of experiences.
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm But there must be something that makes the bundle of Belinda -type experiences stick together! Yes, there is! What makes Belinda experiences hold together is the fact that they are confined to a specific slot in space-time that no other bundle of experiences can occupy.
And that is DUE to the IRREFUTABLE Fact there is ONLY ONE physical body that THAT "belinda" inhabits and dwells.

'you', "belinda", exist SOLELY BECAUSE of what 'that' body has PREVIOUSLY EXPERIENCED.

If that body 'experienced' just one solitary tiny little single 'thing' DIFFERENTLY, then 'that' "belinda" WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT.

What makes 'you', human beings, individually SO SPECIAL and SO UNIQUE is SOLELY due to the Fact that individual and UNIQUE human 'body', which 'you' ALL individually and uniquely are WITHIN, has had UNIQUE and SPECIAL, INDIVIDUAL, 'experiences', of which some NO one "else" could have EVERY HAD.

And this is 'what' makes 'you', ALL, literally, 'individuals', and UNIQUELY SPECIAL. BUT, what makes 'you' ALL, the EXACT SAME, is that 'you' have ALL come 'to be' from the EXACT SAME 'thing', namely A 'human body', which have ALL had the EXACT SAME 'experiences', namely; being conceived, being born, coming INTO this Life, and 'experiencing' this EXACT SAME Life, or Universe.
Belinda
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Belinda »

Age wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:50 am
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm
Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:34 am

When 'you' say, 'there is experience of all bodies', do 'you' mean 'all bodies experience', or do 'you', literally, mean, 'there is experience of all bodies'?

If it is the former, then okay. I agree.

But if it is the latter, then who or what is doing the 'experiencing' of all bodies'?



Oh, when 'you' say 'bodies' do 'you' just mean or refer to human 'bodies' and/or animal 'bodies' only?



What is sometimes referred to as 'The Absolute', or 'God', or 'Allah', or 'The Spirit', or 'Enlightenment', or many OTHER words, phrases, and/or terms, then ALL 'living beings' are A part of This One, sharing the EXACT SAME 'body', that is; just, literally, the 'body' of 'physical matter'. BUT, NOT all 'living beings', like 'you', human beings, share the SAME 'memories', BECAUSE 'you' are ALL EACH WITHIN DIFFERENT 'human bodies', which have EACH, literally, had their VERY OWN DIFFERENT 'experiences', from which, through any of the five senses is WHERE 'memory' has come from. Although within EACH 'body' there is NOT the EXACT SAME 'memory' there IS, however, A WAY to 'sense' or KNOW 'the world/Universe' FROM the 'perspective' of 'that SEPARATE body of matter'. But I think there is far MORE to be LEARNED, and UNDERSTOOD, before 'we' move onto that 'learning' and 'knowledge'.

Also, BECAUSE the EXACT SAME 'Life source or energy' IS WITHIN ALL 'matter', then ALL 'bodies', or 'shapes' and 'forms', of 'matter' HAS ACCESS to that EXACT SAME One. It is also from This One WHERE ALL, and IRREFUTABLE, Knowing EXISTS, and COMES FROM.


Okay, but there has to be SOME 'thing' that IS DOING 'the experiencing', and WHO and WHAT 'That' is, EXACTLY, IS VERY EXCITING to LEARN and DISCOVER.
Age and Harbal(who asked the same question further back in the discussion)
The thing- that- seems- to- be -experiencing is itself a bundle of experiences.
To 'me', the word 'experience' or 'experiences' refers to 'what' is 'taking place', like; when the weather is 'sunny' or 'raining'.

To 'me', so far, it would be an IMPOSSIBILITY for 'experiences', themselves, or even a 'bundle of experiences' to be 'experiencing' 'things'.

to 'me', it is as SIMPLE as it is just the human body, itself, that 'experiences', (in relation to 'you', human beings). and how the human body 'experiences' is through ANY of the five senses. It is then, through ANY of the five senses, of what 'the body' is 'experiencing', this 'information', if this is what we like 'it', is sent to the brain, where, there is thee Truly OPEN existing, then 'this information' is grasped and/or stored

And then, WHEN the 'information' is added with and/or onto other 'information', then the 'person', within, continues to gradually form, evolve, grow up, and/or mature. Until a time when this 'one' 'person', 'self', 'i', or 'you' starts noticing, becoming 'aware', or let us say, 'becomes conscious' of 'things'. However, it is still NOT this 'one' who NOR what is 'experiencing' and it is always the physical senses of a physical body that is able to 'experience' 'things'.

So, to 'me', it is physical bodies, which have physical senses, that is the 'thing' that 'experiences'.
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm Your right hand is known to you by nothing other than experience. If you substitute 'right hand' for any other bit of what you consider to be you, including memories,arms, legs, eyesight, dreams, hopes, fears, loves, hates, information received, intentions for the future: all are known to you by experience and nothing but experience.
I TOTALLY AGREE.

In fact, to 'me', absolutely EVERY 'thought' comes from the past 'experiences' of the human body. I have even referred to the ASSUMES that 'you', human beings, make and USE, as APE thinking. That is Assumptions made, based on, Past Experiences. And which, by the way, is partly WHY 'you', human beings, have been led, so far ASTRAY.

There is no 'you' which is other than a bundle of experiences.
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm But there must be something that makes the bundle of Belinda -type experiences stick together! Yes, there is! What makes Belinda experiences hold together is the fact that they are confined to a specific slot in space-time that no other bundle of experiences can occupy.
And that is DUE to the IRREFUTABLE Fact there is ONLY ONE physical body that THAT "belinda" inhabits and dwells.

'you', "belinda", exist SOLELY BECAUSE of what 'that' body has PREVIOUSLY EXPERIENCED.

If that body 'experienced' just one solitary tiny little single 'thing' DIFFERENTLY, then 'that' "belinda" WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT.

What makes 'you', human beings, individually SO SPECIAL and SO UNIQUE is SOLELY due to the Fact that individual and UNIQUE human 'body', which 'you' ALL individually and uniquely are WITHIN, has had UNIQUE and SPECIAL, INDIVIDUAL, 'experiences', of which some NO one "else" could have EVERY HAD.

And this is 'what' makes 'you', ALL, literally, 'individuals', and UNIQUELY SPECIAL. BUT, what makes 'you' ALL, the EXACT SAME, is that 'you' have ALL come 'to be' from the EXACT SAME 'thing', namely A 'human body', which have ALL had the EXACT SAME 'experiences', namely; being conceived, being born, coming INTO this Life, and 'experiencing' this EXACT SAME Life, or Universe.
Age and I agree that
"If that body 'experienced' just one solitary tiny little single 'thing' DIFFERENTLY, then 'that' "belinda" WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT. "

It's like saying that each individual is a separate individual because each individual is a different perspective/experience on time and space.

In the case that all perspectives are perceived/experienced including perspectives of other animal and vegetable species, that is called absolute perspective/experience.

There are ways to get closer to another perspective namely the arts, and loving relationships.But no two perspectives can be the same perspective. This is the tragedy of human life.
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Harbal
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Harbal »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:54 pm
Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:14 am But some of what we think we know about Jesus is bound to be incorrect.
I would NEVER disagree with this.

But, and as you just put 'it' here, as long as we RECOGNIZE that we ONLY 'think 'we know', and therefore are ADMITTING that 'we are ONLY ASSUMING, and that REALLY we do NOT actually know', then all is well and good.

It is when people profess TO KNOW, when, REALLY, they do NOT YET have thee ACTUAL PROOF, when things become UNRAVELED, and NOT REVEALED.
Every person who ever lived shapes the world in some way, so his presence in it leaves the world a slightly different place to what it would have been had he never existed. His actions will effect the actions of others, and so ripple outwards through both space and time. It seems to me that the most trivial decision someone might make could easily cause a vast difference to the world a hundred years down the line. So, in this way, every one's existence has a lasting presence in the world. This is my understanding of what you are saying about the soul, or spirit, living on after physical death.

My point about the false beliefs we may have about long gone characters was that part of their lasting effect would be based on things that weren't true, and therefore their "soul" would, to some extent, be an imposter. :) But now that I have thought more about it I don't suppose it is significant.
Hopefully, I have just already cleared the 'waters' here a bit.
Yes, you have, so I am assuming it isn't necessary for me to answer the questions you asked me about it.
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am
Age wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:50 am
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm
Age and Harbal(who asked the same question further back in the discussion)
The thing- that- seems- to- be -experiencing is itself a bundle of experiences.
To 'me', the word 'experience' or 'experiences' refers to 'what' is 'taking place', like; when the weather is 'sunny' or 'raining'.

To 'me', so far, it would be an IMPOSSIBILITY for 'experiences', themselves, or even a 'bundle of experiences' to be 'experiencing' 'things'.

to 'me', it is as SIMPLE as it is just the human body, itself, that 'experiences', (in relation to 'you', human beings). and how the human body 'experiences' is through ANY of the five senses. It is then, through ANY of the five senses, of what 'the body' is 'experiencing', this 'information', if this is what we like 'it', is sent to the brain, where, there is thee Truly OPEN existing, then 'this information' is grasped and/or stored

And then, WHEN the 'information' is added with and/or onto other 'information', then the 'person', within, continues to gradually form, evolve, grow up, and/or mature. Until a time when this 'one' 'person', 'self', 'i', or 'you' starts noticing, becoming 'aware', or let us say, 'becomes conscious' of 'things'. However, it is still NOT this 'one' who NOR what is 'experiencing' and it is always the physical senses of a physical body that is able to 'experience' 'things'.

So, to 'me', it is physical bodies, which have physical senses, that is the 'thing' that 'experiences'.
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm Your right hand is known to you by nothing other than experience. If you substitute 'right hand' for any other bit of what you consider to be you, including memories,arms, legs, eyesight, dreams, hopes, fears, loves, hates, information received, intentions for the future: all are known to you by experience and nothing but experience.
I TOTALLY AGREE.

In fact, to 'me', absolutely EVERY 'thought' comes from the past 'experiences' of the human body. I have even referred to the ASSUMES that 'you', human beings, make and USE, as APE thinking. That is Assumptions made, based on, Past Experiences. And which, by the way, is partly WHY 'you', human beings, have been led, so far ASTRAY.

There is no 'you' which is other than a bundle of experiences.
Belinda wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:48 pm But there must be something that makes the bundle of Belinda -type experiences stick together! Yes, there is! What makes Belinda experiences hold together is the fact that they are confined to a specific slot in space-time that no other bundle of experiences can occupy.
And that is DUE to the IRREFUTABLE Fact there is ONLY ONE physical body that THAT "belinda" inhabits and dwells.

'you', "belinda", exist SOLELY BECAUSE of what 'that' body has PREVIOUSLY EXPERIENCED.

If that body 'experienced' just one solitary tiny little single 'thing' DIFFERENTLY, then 'that' "belinda" WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT.

What makes 'you', human beings, individually SO SPECIAL and SO UNIQUE is SOLELY due to the Fact that individual and UNIQUE human 'body', which 'you' ALL individually and uniquely are WITHIN, has had UNIQUE and SPECIAL, INDIVIDUAL, 'experiences', of which some NO one "else" could have EVERY HAD.

And this is 'what' makes 'you', ALL, literally, 'individuals', and UNIQUELY SPECIAL. BUT, what makes 'you' ALL, the EXACT SAME, is that 'you' have ALL come 'to be' from the EXACT SAME 'thing', namely A 'human body', which have ALL had the EXACT SAME 'experiences', namely; being conceived, being born, coming INTO this Life, and 'experiencing' this EXACT SAME Life, or Universe.
Age and I agree that
"If that body 'experienced' just one solitary tiny little single 'thing' DIFFERENTLY, then 'that' "belinda" WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT. "

It's like saying that each individual is a separate individual because each individual is a different perspective/experience on time and space.
I would say that 'it' is NOT like saying that much AT ALL.

What 'it' is ACTUALLY 'like' saying, is DIFFERENT, to 'me'. 'It' is like saying; if 'you' were in a different body, then 'you' would just be DIFFERENT.

Or, 'it' is like saying, each 'individual' IS, the WAY that 'it' is, SOLELY BECAUSE they are ALL in DIFFERENT and INDIVIDUAL 'bodies'.

And, if 'you' want to use the 'time' and 'space' words here now, then what do those words mean or refer to, to 'you', the one known here as "belinda"?
Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am In the case that all perspectives are perceived/experienced including perspectives of other animal and vegetable species, that is called absolute perspective/experience.
BUT that is the WAY 'you' talk and use words here, and NOT the way that I would ever talk and use words here.

'your' WAY, to 'me', seems to COMPLICATE and CONFUSE what is, ESSENTIALLY, Truly SIMPLE and EASY to COMPREHEND, UNDERSTAND, and KNOW.
Belinda wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am There are ways to get closer to another perspective namely the arts, and loving relationships.But no two perspectives can be the same perspective. This is the tragedy of human life.
What do 'you' mean by 'the arts' is A 'perspective'?
Age
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Re: Reincarnation

Post by Age »

Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am
Age wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:54 pm
Harbal wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:14 am But some of what we think we know about Jesus is bound to be incorrect.
I would NEVER disagree with this.

But, and as you just put 'it' here, as long as we RECOGNIZE that we ONLY 'think 'we know', and therefore are ADMITTING that 'we are ONLY ASSUMING, and that REALLY we do NOT actually know', then all is well and good.

It is when people profess TO KNOW, when, REALLY, they do NOT YET have thee ACTUAL PROOF, when things become UNRAVELED, and NOT REVEALED.
Every person who ever lived shapes the world in some way, so his presence in it leaves the world a slightly different place to what it would have been had he never existed.
Agreed, but also found that what 'she' and 'they' did also leaves what we call 'the world' DIFFERENT.
Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am His actions will effect the actions of others, and so ripple outwards through both space and time.
If 'you' want to use the 'time' and 'space' words here now, then what do those words mean or refer to, to 'you', the one known here as "harbal"?
Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am It seems to me that the most trivial decision someone might make could easily cause a vast difference to the world a hundred years down the line.
I AGREE.
Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am So, in this way, every one's existence has a lasting presence in the world.
And, to 'me', these 'ones' here are the invisible 'thoughts' and 'emotions' WITHIN human bodies, and this invisible part of the 'human being', is what the 'soul' word is said to refer to, and which to 'me' is just the 'being' part of the 'human being'.
Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am This is my understanding of what you are saying about the soul, or spirit, living on after physical death.
Yes, BUT just to CLARIFY, the 'spirit' word, to 'me', refers to some 'thing' VERY DIFFERENT than what the 'soul' word does.
Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am My point about the false beliefs we may have about long gone characters was that part of their lasting effect would be based on things that weren't true, and therefore their "soul" would, to some extent, be an imposter. :)
When 'you' say here 'long gone' 'characters' are 'you' referring to ACTUAL non existing 'characters'?

If yes, then 'they', OBVIOUSLY, were NEVER a 'soul'.

And, AGAIN, there is NO 'their' 'soul' here, as though there is a 'one' who HAS a 'soul', from my perspective. 'They', the 'one' IS 'the' 'soul', or the 'soul' is 'them', the 'one' itself.

So, if 'one' is just a 'character', as in the 'fictional' sense, then there is NO 'soul', ANYWAY.

But maybe this was NOT the point you were getting at nor meaning here.

Harbal wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:25 am But now that I have thought more about it I don't suppose it is significant.
Hopefully, I have just already cleared the 'waters' here a bit.
Yes, you have, so I am assuming it isn't necessary for me to answer the questions you asked me about it.
I NEVER like to ASSUME absolutely ANY thing, although I obviously and regretfully do sometimes, but anyway if 'you' would like to ASSUME 'this' or ANY thing else, then 'you' are absolutely FREE to do so.

But if I ask, or asked, questions, then I do so for MY CLARIFICATION, and NOT necessarily for YOUR CLARIFICATION. So, if 'you' would like to or NOT like to answer the questions I asked, then that is PURELY YOUR CHOICE, ALONE.

But just so you KNOW I am NOT even sure what questions you are referring to here.
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