Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2910
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by Greatest I am »

Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 11169
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Narcissism?
medividedbyyou
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:27 am

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by medividedbyyou »

I like the Greek myth version!

Homosexuality arose from two people of the same gender being conjoined at the back. When they were separated they just wanted to be made whole again.
Dontaskme
Posts: 12759
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by Dontaskme »

Greatest I am wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:58 pm Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

I think the answer is is quite important as it would show us the cause/source of homosexuality.

If God, as believers think, then why is God creating gays?

Regards
DL
It doesn't matter how matter manifests, as each manifestation is a perfect expression of oneness which is another word for God.

For how could an appearance that is known to be an experience have been any different than how it appeared to be known as and through experience. It couldn't have been any other way.
User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2910
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by Greatest I am »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:14 pm Narcissism?
Explain or argue your ass umption/opinion.

Regards
DL
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 11169
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:14 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:14 pm Narcissism?
Explain or argue your ass umption/opinion.

Regards
DL
Purely observational. It just occurred to me when I noticed that many gay couples could have been twins.
User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2910
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by Greatest I am »

medividedbyyou wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:45 am I like the Greek myth version!

Homosexuality arose from two people of the same gender being conjoined at the back. When they were separated they just wanted to be made whole again.
I understand the situation, but fail to see how the twins would have been silly enough to think that front to back, like gays would be, would be like them getting back to feeling like their former back to back state.

They would loose a penis and thus no gain.

Perhaps a great lose if you consider masturbation.

I hope I did not insult your sensitivities, new guy.

Regards
DL
User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 11169
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:22 pm
medividedbyyou wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:45 am I like the Greek myth version!

Homosexuality arose from two people of the same gender being conjoined at the back. When they were separated they just wanted to be made whole again.
I understand the situation, but fail to see how the twins would have been silly enough to think that front to back, like gays would be, would be like them getting back to feeling like their former back to back state.

They would loose a penis and thus no gain.

Perhaps a great lose if you consider masturbation.

I hope I did not insult your sensitivities, new guy.

Regards
DL
Yes, it's a pretty ridiculous 'explanation'.
promethean75
Posts: 984
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by promethean75 »

Generally speaking, homosexuality is the result of genetic factors and/or forms of operant conditioning that process in social environments which produce extreme pressure and stress for individuals concerning their own perceived sense of identity and the roles they feel inclined to play in that conflicting environment. Most exclusively, forms of alienation experienced in societies of rugged individualism which produce artificial class and culture conflicts between the people involved. Where the degree of competition over material wealth and reproductive privilege is increased, the number of failures also increases, leading to identity aberrations like learned/conditioned homosexuality and the incel culture, for instance.

Needless to say, capitalism/consumerism environments are notorious for producing Bobby Browns with greater and greater frequency.

In any case, homos are not to blame for their sexuality (since there is no freewill), and should be understood as products of their environments or genetic dispositions.
promethean75
Posts: 984
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by promethean75 »

I should probably let Harry as a boy have a few words to help us understand some of the factors involved in the rise of homosexual behavior, as well.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4724
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by RCSaunders »

promethean75 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:24 pm In any case, homos are not to blame for their sexuality (since there is no freewill), and should be understood as products of their environments or genetic dispositions.
Then no one is, "to blame," for what they do since they cannot consciously choose their behavior (volition). If everything is determined by genetics and environments every possible kind of behavior must be tolerated since what one does is not their fault. Right?

When Muslims behead or kill homosexuals by dropping them off high walls, it is not their fault. It's just their genetically and environmentally determined behavior about which they have no choice. Right?
promethean75
Posts: 984
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:29 pm

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by promethean75 »

"everything is determined by genetics and environments every possible kind of behavior must be tolerated since what one does is not their fault. Right?"

See that's the pat response to the problem... part of the trap that has evolved over centuries of the conceptual confusion surrounding this most precarious of problems.

The situation is much like a riddle; one can't begin moralizing until they know there is no morality.

By believing in morality, a punisher hopes to ignore and forget that there is nothing sanctifying his redress of the criminal and/or immoral act when he punishes, beyond his own disagreement with it. That is, there is no appeal to any higher power that a punisher might make to authorize himself in punishing, reprimanding, scolding, etc.

But there is just as much morality in 'tolerating' as there is in punishing. It never logically followed that there must be absolute toleration if there is no responsibility by virtue of there being no freewill. When one tolerates, one still hesitates at the doorstep of morality... one is still afraid to pass judgement, to take full responsibility for the pleasure or disgust before the deed. They are still hoping to find something above and beyond their own judgement to permit, or not, the thing in question. One immediately jumps to ax 'but is this fair?', and in doing so becomes no more responsible for their judgement than the criminal is for his misdeeds. Ah! Nothing makes 'fair' than what man decides should be. No god, no objective moral equation, and no natural law.

The second step following the abolishment of the concept of freewill is the complete existential grounding of morality into a new paradigm of atheistic collective egoism; the best man can do given his rather fucked up circumstances sans god, is attempt to maintain a law and order that he himself establishes without any recourse to divine edict or deontogical imperative. Social order becomes a science of behaviorism, and rather than continuing the practice of criminal justice based on a set of fundamental lies and misconceptions about human nature, man now looks outward, rather than at the offender, seeking the causes and conditions which lead to such criminal behavior.

Question: what if we discovered that, say, ninety some percent of blue collar crime could be prevented by tweaking the way society was arranged, rather than doing it the old way; poisoning the conscience of the criminal and weakening him by making him shameful, making him feel guilty, convincing him that he knew right from wrong (when he did not), that he had freewill, and demanding that he atone for his transgressions?

See the theory of freewill, in addition to being nonsense, is also the easy way out. One doesn't have to change anything and can just blame the criminal. Know what kind of society masters this way of doing things? A religious constitutionally based free market system. First it brings a gross misunderstanding of human nature, adds to it the nonsensical theory of freewill, sanctions that theory with more nonsense (that there is a god that gave it to them), and finally creates economic circumstances that inevitably lead to such conflicts that produce massive amounts of criminal activity. The whole thing is a joke, bruh. One big fat joke, and not one of the idiots who think they understand all this, and incidentally endorse this crap, have the slightest clue what's going on. In fact - and I've said this before - if there were any reason to believe in god, it would be because one can't imagine such a perfect travesty coming into existence without being designed. Like evolution couldn't accidentally produce such a wellspring of nonsense on its own, i'ont think. Well I dunno... maybe given enough time it would.

Or maybe it's not a travesty and I'm just an exceptional kind of being, such that the normal run of things seems so ridiculous to me because I'm used to a higher order of existence. Like a Vulcan or something, ya know? All I see is six billion monkeys arguing over problems that are none. This is why I became a nihilist. I had to, man. Life on planet erf is too slow.
User avatar
RCSaunders
Posts: 4724
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by RCSaunders »

promethean75 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:19 pm "everything is determined by genetics and environments every possible kind of behavior must be tolerated since what one does is not their fault. Right?"

See that's the pat response to the problem... part of the trap that has evolved over centuries of the conceptual confusion surrounding this most precarious of problems.

The situation is much like a riddle; one can't begin moralizing until they know there is no morality.

By believing in morality, a punisher hopes to ignore and forget that there is nothing sanctifying his redress of the criminal and/or immoral act when he punishes, beyond his own disagreement with it. That is, there is no appeal to any higher power that a punisher might make to authorize himself in punishing, reprimanding, scolding, etc.

But there is just as much morality in 'tolerating' as there is in punishing. It never logically followed that there must be absolute toleration if there is no responsibility by virtue of there being no freewill. When one tolerates, one still hesitates at the doorstep of morality... one is still afraid to pass judgement, to take full responsibility for the pleasure or disgust before the deed. They are still hoping to find something above and beyond their own judgement to permit, or not, the thing in question. One immediately jumps to ax 'but is this fair?', and in doing so becomes no more responsible for their judgement than the criminal is for his misdeeds. Ah! Nothing makes 'fair' than what man decides should be. No god, no objective moral equation, and no natural law.

The second step following the abolishment of the concept of freewill is the complete existential grounding of morality into a new paradigm of atheistic collective egoism; the best man can do given his rather fucked up circumstances sans god, is attempt to maintain a law and order that he himself establishes without any recourse to divine edict or deontogical imperative. Social order becomes a science of behaviorism, and rather than continuing the practice of criminal justice based on a set of fundamental lies and misconceptions about human nature, man now looks outward, rather than at the offender, seeking the causes and conditions which lead to such criminal behavior.

Question: what if we discovered that, say, ninety some percent of blue collar crime could be prevented by tweaking the way society was arranged, rather than doing it the old way; poisoning the conscience of the criminal and weakening him by making him shameful, making him feel guilty, convincing him that he knew right from wrong (when he did not), that he had freewill, and demanding that he atone for his transgressions?

See the theory of freewill, in addition to being nonsense, is also the easy way out. One doesn't have to change anything and can just blame the criminal. Know what kind of society masters this way of doing things? A religious constitutionally based free market system. First it brings a gross misunderstanding of human nature, adds to it the nonsensical theory of freewill, sanctions that theory with more nonsense (that there is a god that gave it to them), and finally creates economic circumstances that inevitably lead to such conflicts that produce massive amounts of criminal activity. The whole thing is a joke, bruh. One big fat joke, and not one of the idiots who think they understand all this, and incidentally endorse this crap, have the slightest clue what's going on. In fact - and I've said this before - if there were any reason to believe in god, it would be because one can't imagine such a perfect travesty coming into existence without being designed. Like evolution couldn't accidentally produce such a wellspring of nonsense on its own, i'ont think. Well I dunno... maybe given enough time it would.

Or maybe it's not a travesty and I'm just an exceptional kind of being, such that the normal run of things seems so ridiculous to me because I'm used to a higher order of existence. Like a Vulcan or something, ya know? All I see is six billion monkeys arguing over problems that are none. This is why I became a nihilist. I had to, man. Life on planet erf is too slow.
Since you can't help what you think, there is no point commenting on it.

There does not seem to be much difference between space cadets and those who are away with the fairies.
User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2910
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by Greatest I am »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:24 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:22 pm
medividedbyyou wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:45 am I like the Greek myth version!

Homosexuality arose from two people of the same gender being conjoined at the back. When they were separated they just wanted to be made whole again.
I understand the situation, but fail to see how the twins would have been silly enough to think that front to back, like gays would be, would be like them getting back to feeling like their former back to back state.

They would loose a penis and thus no gain.

Perhaps a great lose if you consider masturbation.

I hope I did not insult your sensitivities, new guy.

Regards
DL
Yes, it's a pretty ridiculous 'explanation'.
Chastisement without correction is what low I.Q. does.

Thanks for showing yours.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2910
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Post by Greatest I am »

promethean75 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:24 pm Generally speaking, homosexuality is the result of genetic factors and/or forms of operant conditioning that process in social environments which produce extreme pressure and stress for individuals concerning their own perceived sense of identity and the roles they feel inclined to play in that conflicting environment. Most exclusively, forms of alienation experienced in societies of rugged individualism which produce artificial class and culture conflicts between the people involved. Where the degree of competition over material wealth and reproductive privilege is increased, the number of failures also increases, leading to identity aberrations like learned/conditioned homosexuality and the incel culture, for instance.

Needless to say, capitalism/consumerism environments are notorious for producing Bobby Browns with greater and greater frequency.

In any case, homos are not to blame for their sexuality (since there is no freewill), and should be understood as products of their environments or genetic dispositions.
Indeed.

There are enough legitimate reasons to hate, without doing so without a just cause.

Let's not be too right wing or religious.

Regards
DL
Post Reply