Understanding the religious mindset

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
bahman
Posts: 5077
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by bahman »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:12 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:16 pm What is your proof ...
You are all the proof I need.
What do you mean? They talk to me like you do. They are coherent. I cannot deny them as I cannot deny you. Believe what you like.
Belinda
Posts: 4901
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

bahman wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:12 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:16 pm What is your proof ...
You are all the proof I need.
What do you mean? They talk to me like you do. They are coherent. I cannot deny them as I cannot deny you. Believe what you like.
What really matters is whether or not these phenomena help you to maintain normal waking awareness, such as helps you to live independently.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 5077
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by bahman »

Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:17 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:17 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:12 pm
You are all the proof I need.
What do you mean? They talk to me like you do. They are coherent. I cannot deny them as I cannot deny you. Believe what you like.
What really matters is whether or not these phenomena help you to maintain normal waking awareness, such as helps you to live independently.
I am very aware and independent.
Belinda
Posts: 4901
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

bahman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:28 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:17 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:17 pm
What do you mean? They talk to me like you do. They are coherent. I cannot deny them as I cannot deny you. Believe what you like.
What really matters is whether or not these phenomena help you to maintain normal waking awareness, such as helps you to live independently.
I am very aware and independent.
Then you are fortunate. Many people who talk with the dead and with various spirits dislike the experience.
How do you know these phenomena are not hallucinations? This is a philosophy forum after all, and how we can know stuff is a main philosophical concern.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 5077
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by bahman »

Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:28 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:17 pm
What really matters is whether or not these phenomena help you to maintain normal waking awareness, such as helps you to live independently.
I am very aware and independent.
Then you are fortunate. Many people who talk with the dead and with various spirits dislike the experience.
I had lots of bad experiences too but I accepted them.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm How do you know these phenomena are not hallucinations?
Hallucinations cannot be caused by themselves. It has a cause. Therefore there is a mind behind it. I had more confidence in the existence of other intelligent agents after I realize there is a coherence in their behavior. They have their own identities.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm This is a philosophy forum after all, and how we can know stuff is a main philosophical concern.
I know and I think that my response to OP is appropriate.
Belinda
Posts: 4901
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Belinda »

bahman wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:04 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:28 pm
I am very aware and independent.
Then you are fortunate. Many people who talk with the dead and with various spirits dislike the experience.
I had lots of bad experiences too but I accepted them.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm How do you know these phenomena are not hallucinations?
Hallucinations cannot be caused by themselves. It has a cause. Therefore there is a mind behind it. I had more confidence in the existence of other intelligent agents after I realize there is a coherence in their behavior. They have their own identities.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm This is a philosophy forum after all, and how we can know stuff is a main philosophical concern.
I know and I think that my response to OP is appropriate.
Thank you. Do you ever disagree with them? Can you learn new ideas from them? My questions reflect my interest in personal identity, and the goodness of the subjective point of view.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 5077
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by bahman »

Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:36 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:04 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm
Then you are fortunate. Many people who talk with the dead and with various spirits dislike the experience.
I had lots of bad experiences too but I accepted them.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm How do you know these phenomena are not hallucinations?
Hallucinations cannot be caused by themselves. It has a cause. Therefore there is a mind behind it. I had more confidence in the existence of other intelligent agents after I realize there is a coherence in their behavior. They have their own identities.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm This is a philosophy forum after all, and how we can know stuff is a main philosophical concern.
I know and I think that my response to OP is appropriate.
Thank you.
Your welcome.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm Do you ever disagree with them?
I try my best to accept them, good or evil. The reality is indifferent, therefore we are equal.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm Can you learn new ideas from them?
Yes. Once I perceive my mind, that was my subconscious mind's gift.
Belinda wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm My questions reflect my interest in personal identity, and the goodness of the subjective point of view.
I am close to a state of peace always, a little happy, a little sad...
gaffo
Posts: 4150
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:17 am
gaffo wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:50 pm BTW i ...not happy about insulting you...
I know. That's why I'm not upset. I know you don't mean it personally.
I did not liker you insulting me via me being a drunk
I wasn't insulting you, actually. I was just pointing out that neither you, nor I, nor anybody else becomes easier to understand when we're plastered. I was just reporting a fact, not making a personal judgment.
anyway, i'm ok with cleaning the slate, and to converse.
As I say, I'm not upset. You and I have history: we can put up with a bit from each other, yes?
is there something you wish to talk about? if so i'd like to partake in that discussion.
At the moment, nothing in particular. But I'm fine with picking a new topic.

I have no topic - well, thoughts, fathers day is tomorrow and i get depressed over it since my dad second of last day of 17 - but no topic. I watched a vid of Angy Ngo (don't kow of him) - seemed like a nice guy - i think he is a conservative, but that is ok by me as long as he is just and has a mind and values that over his ego - and it seems he dos, informed me about antifa (stuff the mainline news never did - faux "news" said the other mainline newss did not inform per antifa (but faux is just the otherside of corp media so i ignore as bullshit - but this ngo guy is just a guy, and so i didn't ignore him.

and of course i know about Chris Hedges - much more liberal - damn near communist - than me, both basically saying american is a failed state.


i guess you can talk about that - but i'm just not into talking about the death of the home i love. I'm not into excapism (why i like realistic movies and not fluff - nor do i like the inverse nialism for nihilism sake - nihilism is big today -a nd why i've hated media HBO/etc so called avent guard TV shows that glorify teachers turned drug dealers/etc - they do not show reality, nor do they have moral message.

whereas old shit - like pre-80's the good stuff was bleak, but there was always a social mesage to it.

Planet of the Apes (Hypocrisy of organized religion - i.e. the Church - refer to the trial) - remakes ignore all of that. (of course they do - because americans no longer think, they are like Nervaa's Teen spirit lyrics - "Entertain me"- outside of 3 mainstream movies these last 20 yrs - 12 yrs a slave, zodiac, no country for old men - the rest was been shit.

excluding a few foreign movies.

so ya america is fucked, no wish to talk about it becasue i can't make her right - she will just go reich and that is that.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 12374
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:16 pm I watched a vid of Angy Ngo (don't kow of him) - seemed like a nice guy - i think he is a conservative, but that is ok by me as long as he is just and has a mind and values that over his ego - and it seems he dos, informed me about antifa (stuff the mainline news never did - faux "news" said the other mainline newss did not inform per antifa (but faux is just the otherside of corp media so i ignore as bullshit - but this ngo guy is just a guy, and so i didn't ignore him.
I believe Andy Ngo was the homosexual conservative who was beaten up for no reason by Antifa. So he has some first-hand experience with them.
i guess you can talk about that - but i'm just not into talking about the death of the home i love.
America? I don't think it's finished yet. But it's certainly not doing well under Biden, that's for sure. She's ridden out more difficult times, but probably never, since Woodrow Wilson post September 1919, had such a seriously mentally incapable person as President.
gaffo
Posts: 4150
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:04 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:16 pm I watched a vid of Angy Ngo (don't kow of him) - seemed like a nice guy - i think he is a conservative, but that is ok by me as long as he is just and has a mind and values that over his ego - and it seems he dos, informed me about antifa (stuff the mainline news never did - faux "news" said the other mainline newss did not inform per antifa (but faux is just the otherside of corp media so i ignore as bullshit - but this ngo guy is just a guy, and so i didn't ignore him.
I believe Andy Ngo was the homosexual conservative who was beaten up for no reason by Antifa. So he has some first-hand experience with them.
never heard of him until about 2 hours ago via yt talk about antifa. did not know he was gay. gay like guns and god and abortion - the usual red meat is of no interest to me - i have my views but no interest in talking about them nor care all that much which way they go (me being a man helps per my indifference per abortion) I'm just a wierdo that has a passion for odd esoteric stuff like Jury Pardon, and Letter of the LAw -vs morality - i affirm the former as law - affirm the law (so lsavery is legal - was during the civil war! - in the norther slave states - even after the emancipation proclaimation! - Licoln (pure Hypocrite! - used the Article of Confederation to claim it was illegal for any state to leave the Union (Atricles had no legal standing - and was usurped by the US Constitution - US Constitution does not dissallow stats from leaving hte federal union)) States joined the uion volutarily - withthe understanding they could leave it later - otherwise they would have never joined a union!)

also per Lincoln (Madison is my fav BTW) (total over-rated hypocrite) in his Emmancipation proclaimation (he had no legal stading to dictate to the 11? southern states - they legally left the uion 60/40 by legal votring means - so they leaving the uion was a legal proces and lincoln no longer had legal authority to make slavery illegal in the Confederate states.

he had legal authority to make slavery illegal in Maryland and Delaware!!!!!!!!!!!! though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sicne they were still in the United States!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bnt............waith for it.....................the emmancipation proclaimation did not apply to Slave state not in "Rebellion"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so lincoln was pro slavery only anti leaving the uion and pure hypocriote.


Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:04 pm
i guess you can talk about that - but i'm just not into talking about the death of the home i love.
America? I don't think it's finished yet. But it's certainly not doing well under Biden, that's for sure. She's ridden out more difficult times, but probably never, since Woodrow Wilson post September 1919, had such a seriously mentally incapable person as President.
i think its over because i've lost fatih in folks just having the capacity for critical thought - BTW the 1930's GReat Depression was the last time things were ont he verge - worse than late 60's nam and 1919. 1929-1936 were hard times "Hovverviles" - my mom rem some as a kid - seems hoovervilles are now returing - even here in Norman we have had 3 show up - 3 sites with 30 or so tentts around town - and santa cruz - when i went out to see my dad when he was dying 3.5 yrs ago - the city park had 50 tents there - it was insane (I'd been to Santa Cruz and the bay area - SF- SJ/etc since the late 70's - been there maybe 30 times - never NEVER - last time outside of my dad dying was in 2014 - then in 2014 i did not see the homeless. but in 2017 they were all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!!!

never saw them in the 70's or 80's or 90's - fukc even her ein norman - been here for 20 yr - they only really showed up about 5 yrs ago! in real numbers.

i lived in autin prior for a decade - 90's - never saw the homeless ion numbers - jus the usual one for tow or few - but a buddy of hmine was there lately and he says they wqere all over the place now!!!!!!!!!! that was not the austin i lived in decades ago.

america's got problems and she lack leadership and competence and a people that care, are abler to think, or have faith - sadly.they gave up and with it my nation goes to the dogs.
gaffo
Posts: 4150
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

your trudeau seems like a pissant - not his daddy. dad was a great leader, though violated the rule of LAw when he orders his henchmen to exra-legally - hunt down the French sepatartist and kill him in paris - that was illegal and so not affirmed by me a rule of law type of guy - so he lost two notches on t he leadership scale and rose up two lontches on the the tuggery scale.


his son just lacks all thuggery and leadership - lacking balls in general.

imo.
User avatar
Immanuel Can
Posts: 12374
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Immanuel Can »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:32 pm america's got problems and she lack leadership and competence and a people that care, are abler to think, or have faith - sadly.they gave up and with it my nation goes to the dogs.
Well, I don't know...that might be how it plays out. But there might be some life in "the Ol' Girl" yet.
gaffo
Posts: 4150
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by gaffo »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:46 pm
gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:32 pm america's got problems and she lack leadership and competence and a people that care, are abler to think, or have faith - sadly.they gave up and with it my nation goes to the dogs.
Well, I don't know...that might be how it plays out. But there might be some life in "the Ol' Girl" yet.
wel I'll strive to try keeping your sense of hope - to the best of my ability ;-/.

I do know one thing, i value my Constitution and what if affirms - and shall value other nations that affirm the same even if they lack that document - lackign the doc is not dieal, but if the people affirm the concepts withotu the document and thier gov represents the concent of the governed i'm fine with it.

when my nation no longer affirms the doc it was founded upon i will just turn my back on my nation (i affirm the concept of my nations founding doc - not a plot of land).

there are still a few Natons out there that affirm the concept of my Constitution - maybe i need to educate myself on the means to migrate to thim - there law per illegl/legal migration to...........i fear i need to for i've lost faith in my nation.

i do think myself a Patriot - not a Nationalist - so any other lands that affirm my nations Constitution i would view as my home - and when my nation no longer valus my Constitution i shall no longer view my land of birht as my ture home - nor fel guilty leaving it - for my i would not have left my nation, my nation will have left me and my constitution.

;-/.
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4791
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

gaffo wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:16 pm...
Hey, instead of spewing your random drunken off-topic thoughts in this thread, maybe you could start your own topic and title it Drunken Blathering, for those types of discussions? :wink:
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4791
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

How is it that many theists perceive their all-powerful god's creation/manifestation as evil and dark and wrong, yet they fail to question the lack of logic in that limited human conclusion... and in the stories that spin off from that?

Is fighting against perceived evils a way to change them, or does that actually birth/engage/stir them and strengthen their resolve/resistance? Being in a vibration of resistance isn't really moving anywhere: it requires an ongoing nemesis in order to validate and sustain itself. (Sort of like, if doctors healed everyone, they'd be out of a job.) It's like a beloved wrestling match.

Might broader understanding and clearer consciousness actually be what transforms and stops feeding into such manifestations?

I've heard it said: you can't have/experience more until you have gratitude for what you have (and what is). I've experienced this to be true on many levels.

What experience of reality do we perpetuate or create with our thoughts? We are fully engaged participants... and, very likely, active creators, right? With such power/potential as that, what do we focus on and create as a result?

I also like the quote (as I've mentioned before): if you can't see god in all, you can't see god at all. All means all. Even the evil, dark, and "wrong". Why would "god" be all of that too?? Perhaps the answer comes from looking further than the small concepts and judgments that offer comfort for our human fears. Such a creative "source"/energy/idea need not be limited by human personalizing or personifying it. Surely the creative element flowing throughout all is far beyond human desires. So why not strive to recognize such an element and flow everywhere, and consider and explore the potential and implications of that?

What more might there be... beyond the most any of us can imagine? Can we live with an unknown magnitude, without shrinking it wayyy down to claim to know "it"? Can we participate in the dance of life as if knowing that everything is in order as it is?
Last edited by Lacewing on Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply