man is separate from truth

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DPMartin
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man is separate from truth

Post by DPMartin »

all man thinks about is fulfillment of what he desires in his heart. man can't escape his desire, and seeks opportunity for such fulfillments. therefore man is separate from the truth, because he is a liar for his desires.

one would have to disregard his desires of his nature for the truth. hence then desiring the truth knowing that he is incorrect and the truth is correct.
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RCSaunders
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by RCSaunders »

DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm all man thinks about is fulfillment of what he desires in his heart. man can't escape his desire, and seeks opportunity for such fulfillments. therefore man is separate from the truth, because he is a liar for his desires.

one would have to disregard his desires of his nature for the truth. hence then desiring the truth knowing that he is incorrect and the truth is correct.
I presume you are describing your own warped psychology here. It's not true of all mankind.

Many human beings desire the truth above all other things, because they know living in conformance to the truth is the only means to the fulfillment of all other desires and a successful human life ofachievement possible.

Your view of humanity is pure hateful evil.
DPMartin
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by DPMartin »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:49 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm all man thinks about is fulfillment of what he desires in his heart. man can't escape his desire, and seeks opportunity for such fulfillments. therefore man is separate from the truth, because he is a liar for his desires.

one would have to disregard his desires of his nature for the truth. hence then desiring the truth knowing that he is incorrect and the truth is correct.
I presume you are describing your own warped psychology here. It's not true of all mankind.

Many human beings desire the truth above all other things, because they know living in conformance to the truth is the only means to the fulfillment of all other desires and a successful human life ofachievement possible.

Your view of humanity is pure hateful evil.
just because you have a misgivings about some kind of goodness in human nature, doesn't mean the OP isn't true.

and if you're honest with yourself, you know you weren't born with a desire for the truth, and, what are you willing to say to deny that.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by Terrapin Station »

Most of the time when I'm assessing whether a proposition is true, my response has nothing at all to do with desire.

For example, if I'm wondering if it's past noon, a desire for it to be prior to or past noon has nothing to do with discovering the truth about what time it is.

Or if I think, "I have one beer left in the fridge," my desire to have one left has no bearing on my learning the truth, when I open the refrigerator, that none are left. I don't assign "False" to "There is no beer left in the fridge" just because I desire there to be beer left in the fridge.

The vast majority of things that I assess the truth of during the course of any given day are in the vein of the above.
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Lacewing
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by Lacewing »

DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm therefore man is separate from the truth, because he is a liar for his desires.
What if his desire is to think that there is "truth" rather than "truths", and that he (himself) is tuned into the truth in a way that exceeds or invalidates others?

Might he be separate from the truth that he's separate from the truth?
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Sculptor
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by Sculptor »

DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm all man thinks about is fulfillment of what he desires in his heart. man can't escape his desire, and seeks opportunity for such fulfillments. therefore man is separate from the truth, because he is a liar for his desires.

one would have to disregard his desires of his nature for the truth. hence then desiring the truth knowing that he is incorrect and the truth is correct.
This is self contradictory.
If all "man" (sic) is interested in is his desires then he is being truthful to those desires. Desire is his truth. And if he desires knoweldge, or pleasure then seeking those is the truth.
DPMartin
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by DPMartin »

Sculptor wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:04 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm all man thinks about is fulfillment of what he desires in his heart. man can't escape his desire, and seeks opportunity for such fulfillments. therefore man is separate from the truth, because he is a liar for his desires.

one would have to disregard his desires of his nature for the truth. hence then desiring the truth knowing that he is incorrect and the truth is correct.
This is self contradictory.
If all "man" (sic) is interested in is his desires then he is being truthful to those desires. Desire is his truth. And if he desires knoweldge, or pleasure then seeking those is the truth.
desire isn't ones truth, its only true that one has desire for whatever.
DPMartin
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by DPMartin »

Terrapin Station wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:47 pm Most of the time when I'm assessing whether a proposition is true, my response has nothing at all to do with desire.

For example, if I'm wondering if it's past noon, a desire for it to be prior to or past noon has nothing to do with discovering the truth about what time it is.

Or if I think, "I have one beer left in the fridge," my desire to have one left has no bearing on my learning the truth, when I open the refrigerator, that none are left. I don't assign "False" to "There is no beer left in the fridge" just because I desire there to be beer left in the fridge.

The vast majority of things that I assess the truth of during the course of any given day are in the vein of the above.
what are you talking about you have to have a desire to know what time it is, or to have a beer. your reasons for wanting to know or the desire to know (want is a form of desire) is irrelevant. but your desire for a beer or wanting to know what time it is isn't a seeking of the truth for the desire of the truth. you desire a beer, not the truth.

though a beer about now is not a bad idea
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Terrapin Station
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by Terrapin Station »

DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:42 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:47 pm Most of the time when I'm assessing whether a proposition is true, my response has nothing at all to do with desire.

For example, if I'm wondering if it's past noon, a desire for it to be prior to or past noon has nothing to do with discovering the truth about what time it is.

Or if I think, "I have one beer left in the fridge," my desire to have one left has no bearing on my learning the truth, when I open the refrigerator, that none are left. I don't assign "False" to "There is no beer left in the fridge" just because I desire there to be beer left in the fridge.

The vast majority of things that I assess the truth of during the course of any given day are in the vein of the above.
what are you talking about you have to have a desire to know what time it is, or to have a beer. your reasons for wanting to know or the desire to know (want is a form of desire) is irrelevant. but your desire for a beer or wanting to know what time it is isn't a seeking of the truth for the desire of the truth. you desire a beer, not the truth.

though a beer about now is not a bad idea
Your first post in the thread seemed to be saying that there's a problem with a relationship to truth because it's biased by desires.

So I was noting that in the vast majority of scenarios, that's not the case. And insofar as our desires go, they're often rather thwarted by truth, which often runs counter to our desires.
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Sculptor
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by Sculptor »

DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:35 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:04 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm all man thinks about is fulfillment of what he desires in his heart. man can't escape his desire, and seeks opportunity for such fulfillments. therefore man is separate from the truth, because he is a liar for his desires.

one would have to disregard his desires of his nature for the truth. hence then desiring the truth knowing that he is incorrect and the truth is correct.
This is self contradictory.
If all "man" (sic) is interested in is his desires then he is being truthful to those desires. Desire is his truth. And if he desires knoweldge, or pleasure then seeking those is the truth.
desire isn't ones truth, its only true that one has desire for whatever.
No. You are contrdicting yourself.
If you have desire than that is what you are.
If a person is defined by his desire as you suggest then he can only be truthful to himself to persue those desires.
DPMartin
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by DPMartin »

Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:25 am
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:42 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:47 pm Most of the time when I'm assessing whether a proposition is true, my response has nothing at all to do with desire.

For example, if I'm wondering if it's past noon, a desire for it to be prior to or past noon has nothing to do with discovering the truth about what time it is.

Or if I think, "I have one beer left in the fridge," my desire to have one left has no bearing on my learning the truth, when I open the refrigerator, that none are left. I don't assign "False" to "There is no beer left in the fridge" just because I desire there to be beer left in the fridge.

The vast majority of things that I assess the truth of during the course of any given day are in the vein of the above.
what are you talking about you have to have a desire to know what time it is, or to have a beer. your reasons for wanting to know or the desire to know (want is a form of desire) is irrelevant. but your desire for a beer or wanting to know what time it is isn't a seeking of the truth for the desire of the truth. you desire a beer, not the truth.

though a beer about now is not a bad idea
Your first post in the thread seemed to be saying that there's a problem with a relationship to truth because it's biased by desires.

So I was noting that in the vast majority of scenarios, that's not the case. And insofar as our desires go, they're often rather thwarted by truth, which often runs counter to our desires.
thing is, it would seem that the subject of desires can be a can of worms. the desire to have physical relations is one thing and how that is executed such as with spouse or someone else is another.

but is it truth that prevents man, and i don't think so seeing many wicked do as they please and have all they want without fear.

or is it man that refuses truth when its not conducive to their own will. for example, here were many will say anything thinking to win an argument.
DPMartin
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by DPMartin »

Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:39 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:35 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:04 pm
This is self contradictory.
If all "man" (sic) is interested in is his desires then he is being truthful to those desires. Desire is his truth. And if he desires knoweldge, or pleasure then seeking those is the truth.
desire isn't ones truth, its only true that one has desire for whatever.
No. You are contrdicting yourself.
If you have desire than that is what you are.
If a person is defined by his desire as you suggest then he can only be truthful to himself to persue those desires.
nope this statement show you're incorrect:

"If a person is defined by his desire as you suggest then he can only be truthful to himself to persue those desires."


"if a person is defined by his desires", if is the big word here that you seem to be forcing into the conversation. I didn't say man is defined by his desire. a man can disregard entertaining, or he can entertain of his desire. which might be another subject. but entertaining and not entertaining one's desires makes the man much more so then his desires. the strength wisdom and guidance to do correctly, or accordingly, is another subject.

animals don't refrain from the pursuit of desires because they don't have to, unless there is no perceived opportunity for fulfillment thereof, which is not the expected case with man.
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Lacewing
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by Lacewing »

DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm all man thinks about is fulfillment of what he desires in his heart
Wrong. I just as often, if not moreso, think about the collective flow of humans and life, and the benefits and perfection of that. There is greater good to be seen/recognized through connection.
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm man can't escape his desire
Humans CAN live by more than desire, but some may not.
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pmtherefore man is separate from the truth, because he is a liar for his desires.
Wrong conclusion based on the limits of what you are thinking.
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pmone would have to disregard his desires of his nature for the truth. hence then desiring the truth knowing that he is incorrect and the truth is correct.
How can you know of such "truth", considering your limited and faulty thinking?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by Terrapin Station »

DPMartin wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 4:24 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:25 am
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:42 pm

what are you talking about you have to have a desire to know what time it is, or to have a beer. your reasons for wanting to know or the desire to know (want is a form of desire) is irrelevant. but your desire for a beer or wanting to know what time it is isn't a seeking of the truth for the desire of the truth. you desire a beer, not the truth.

though a beer about now is not a bad idea
Your first post in the thread seemed to be saying that there's a problem with a relationship to truth because it's biased by desires.

So I was noting that in the vast majority of scenarios, that's not the case. And insofar as our desires go, they're often rather thwarted by truth, which often runs counter to our desires.
thing is, it would seem that the subject of desires can be a can of worms. the desire to have physical relations is one thing and how that is executed such as with spouse or someone else is another.

but is it truth that prevents man, and i don't think so seeing many wicked do as they please and have all they want without fear.

or is it man that refuses truth when its not conducive to their own will. for example, here were many will say anything thinking to win an argument.
Maybe if you gave a specific example a la "'P is true' but desire/will/whatever makes one deny that P is true." I'd have a better idea of what you have in mind.
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Sculptor
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Re: man is separate from truth

Post by Sculptor »

DPMartin wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 4:37 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:39 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:35 pm

desire isn't ones truth, its only true that one has desire for whatever.
No. You are contrdicting yourself.
If you have desire than that is what you are.
If a person is defined by his desire as you suggest then he can only be truthful to himself to persue those desires.
nope this statement show you're incorrect:

"If a person is defined by his desire as you suggest then he can only be truthful to himself to persue those desires."


"if a person is defined by his desires", if is the big word here that you seem to be forcing into the conversation. I didn't say man is defined by his desire. a man can disregard entertaining, or he can entertain of his desire. which might be another subject. but entertaining and not entertaining one's desires makes the man much more so then his desires. the strength wisdom and guidance to do correctly, or accordingly, is another subject.

animals don't refrain from the pursuit of desires because they don't have to, unless there is no perceived opportunity for fulfillment thereof, which is not the expected case with man.
There you go - you are contradicting yourself again.
You have already described men as if they were animals.
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