Islam Means Peace?

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Age
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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by Age » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:50 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:01 am
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:54 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:10 am

OK.

Provide your arguments to justify how the ideology of Islam is PEACE?

What is Islam?
The ideology of Islam is represented by the 6,236 verses of the Quran send directly in pristine conditions to Muhammad via angel Gabriel.
I have told you numerous times already and I have explained enough times already also about how the ideology of islam is Peace, but you are completely and utterly incapable of even just hearing this, let alone understanding it at all.
In your previous point re Islam is Peace, you made no reference [verses] to the ideology of Islam is represented by the 6,236 verses of the Quran.

Note,
  • A is Peace
    Islam is A
    Therefore Islam is Peace
What are the justifications for your 'A'?
As I just said:
I have told you numerous times already and I have explained enough times already also about how the ideology of islam is Peace, but you are completely and utterly incapable of even just hearing this, let alone understanding it at all.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:12 am

Age wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:50 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:01 am
Age wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:54 am


I have told you numerous times already and I have explained enough times already also about how the ideology of islam is Peace, but you are completely and utterly incapable of even just hearing this, let alone understanding it at all.
In your previous point re Islam is Peace, you made no reference [verses] to the ideology of Islam is represented by the 6,236 verses of the Quran.

Note,
  • A is Peace
    Islam is A
    Therefore Islam is Peace
What are the justifications for your 'A'?
As I just said:
I have told you numerous times already and I have explained enough times already also about how the ideology of islam is Peace, but you are completely and utterly incapable of even just hearing this, let alone understanding it at all.
What is the point of babbling?

If you cannot repeat your points here, show me where are the posts you think you have explained your argument convincingly.

It is most likely the case that you think you have countered my point successfully but that is not the real case.
Due to your admitted autistic state, most of the time you are talking 'oranges' while the topic on hand was 'apples'.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by Age » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:32 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:12 am
Age wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:50 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:01 am

In your previous point re Islam is Peace, you made no reference [verses] to the ideology of Islam is represented by the 6,236 verses of the Quran.

Note,
  • A is Peace
    Islam is A
    Therefore Islam is Peace
What are the justifications for your 'A'?
As I just said:
I have told you numerous times already and I have explained enough times already also about how the ideology of islam is Peace, but you are completely and utterly incapable of even just hearing this, let alone understanding it at all.
What is the point of babbling?

If you cannot repeat your points here, show me where are the posts you think you have explained your argument convincingly.

It is most likely the case that you think you have countered my point successfully but that is not the real case.
Due to your admitted autistic state, most of the time you are talking 'oranges' while the topic on hand was 'apples'.
Yes this true. I am talking about Peace and Harmony ('apples', "topic on hand") whereas you talk about evil and violence ('oranges')

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by nothing » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:22 pm

Just as it takes a believer to believe evil is good,
it takes a believer to believe war is peace.

Islam is not "peace" - it is perpetual conflict, as it has been (both internally/externally) and always will be owing to it perpetuating the principle division of:
"believer" vs. "unbeliever"
wherein unbelievers are persecuted for not "believing" in Islam and/or worshiping Muhammad (functional equivalent to: Allah). It is true that the first victim of Islam is the believing Muslim, owing to their own ignorance of where the Qur'an actually came from, or that Mecca did not even exist when Muhammad was alive (which accounts for all the mosques facing Petra up until around the 9th C). The Muslim has no conscious knowledge of their own ignorance because they are lied to from their childhood, given a completely false history, man-handled book and are "believers" who are "bound to believe". What they believe is not true: belief-in-and-of-itself is the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and the Muslim has absolutely no knowledge, because Muhammad was himself ignorant (hence the need to protect Muhammad: he represents the leadership of Islam).

Islam absolutely upsets the balance of men/women: because Muhammad is the idol worshiped in Islam, his "model" (ie. character) is taken as a/the only acceptable example for all of humanity. Muhammad was himself infidel: he had 9/11 wives and allowed his followers to take up to 4. This came about because Muhammad regarded women as war spoils and began using them as incentive for Muhammadans to aggressively fight against unbelievers in the so-called "cause of Allah" which is none-other than the leadership of Islam invading other nations for their women. The definition of fidelity is spelled out in Genesis - 1:1. Islam deviates from this because of the sexual degeneracy of men. This is the true nature of Islam that is censored by Islam (ie. Muslims whine and squeal whenever Muhammad/Islam is ridiculed): it also being the global root of fascism/socialism/Nazism all while blaming, scapegoating and projecting their own crimes against humanity against whoever their adversaries are.

The original sin relates to Adam trying to blame his own iniquity onto another: the woman. The hijab/niqab/burqa is the elaboration of this original sin wherein men "blame" women for how men themselves behave around them (as in: raping them). Therefor, women are abused by men, as Muslim women are abused by Muhammadan men (ie. are allowed to "religiously" beat women - the original sin itself fixed as permissible). As such, Islam is absolutely satanic and a humanitarian crisis in waiting. They worship one book, one man, and just slander, blame, accuse, scapegoat and try to censor/silence via character assassination and libel. Islam is certainly the root of fascism, and is just as much "Jewish" as the Jews they claim to hate: whining and squealing over a sexually degenerated dead swine and man-handled book that is not but a bloody mess responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions.

Muslims have absolutely no idea they are being lied to by their own leaders, and it goes all the way back to Muhammad. This is the need to dress Muhammad up as the "greatest man who ever lived" and spill blood over ridicule of him. They absolutely worship this idol tenfold over how Christians worship Jesus. They do not even know satan requires belief, and an all-knowing god would certainly not only know that, but would know not to even deal in the 'belief' business.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:36 pm

The only way to know for sure is to study the Qurʾan and other historical documents, paying close attention to context, as I understand that is why many get the wrong impression.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:29 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:36 pm
The only way to know for sure is to study the Qurʾan and other historical documents, paying close attention to context, as I understand that is why many get the wrong impression.
Well, there isn't really a "context" in the Koran, because the Koran wasn't assembled as coherent letters, or chronicles, like the Bible was. It was cobbled together from a wide variety of snippets, many not longer than a fortune cookie, then grouped by imams, according to whether or not they felt saying X or Y was valid. Finally, they were organized according to length, and the left over "inauthentic" sayings of Mohammed were burned. The remainder is the Koran.

I'm not trying to be insulting. That's literally how it was done. It's how Muslims experts themselves recognize that it was done.

And because of that, there's no "context." One verse is not connected to the next by way of order of thought...just grouped by general subject matter. Mohammed himself never put them together in that order, nor did he say that's how he wanted them. In fact, he remained (as Muslims proudly acknowledge) entirely illiterate throughout his lifetime. So there's no "flow of thought" to catch. It's not that kind of book.

Meanwhile, there was the problem of contradiction. With so many snippets simply strung together by others, and no flow of thought, and with the quite-varied career of Mohammed himself, it was inevitable that some verses would contradict others. So the imams decided on a hermeneutical strategy called "abrogation." Abrogation means that a verse said to be later in origin supersedes any verse said to be earlier. In other words, Mohammed's view of the words from God changed over time...he moved from pacifism to militarism, and from a conciliatory stance toward Christians, Jews and infidels, to a less compromising stand, and then to outright hatred and advocacy of violence, as he went from Medinan outcast to Meccan warlord.

The upshot is that Islam became a religion of pacification rather than of peace. It became militant instead of conciliatory. It became hostile and conquest-minded to the rest of the world, rather than invitational. Yes, there would be "peace." But only when the whole world was subjugated to Islam and made into "dar-al-salaam," "the house of peace": until then, the world would remain "dar al-harb," the "house of war." There would be no peace until all other nations were pacified and submitted to Islam.

And the remainder of Islamic history shows that story playing out just as one would predict. The Koran's earlier verses were abrogated, and violent conquest become the rule for North Africa and Europe, until Islam was defeated and mostly pushed back into the Middle East.

Abrogation was the issue. The "right" interpretation of the Koran is the one that follows that principle, according to Islamic experts.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:34 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:29 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:36 pm
The only way to know for sure is to study the Qurʾan and other historical documents, paying close attention to context, as I understand that is why many get the wrong impression.
Well, there isn't really a "context" in the Koran, because the Koran wasn't assembled as coherent letters, or chronicles, like the Bible was. It was cobbled together from a wide variety of snippets, many not longer than a fortune cookie, then grouped by imams, according to whether or not they felt saying X or Y was valid. Finally, they were organized according to length, and the left over "inauthentic" sayings of Mohammed were burned. The remainder is the Koran.

I'm not trying to be insulting. That's literally how it was done. It's how Muslims experts themselves recognize that it was done.

And because of that, there's no "context." One verse is not connected to the next by way of order of thought...just grouped by general subject matter. Mohammed himself never put them together in that order, nor did he say that's how he wanted them. In fact, he remained (as Muslims proudly acknowledge) entirely illiterate throughout his lifetime. So there's no "flow of thought" to catch. It's not that kind of book.

Meanwhile, there was the problem of contradiction. With so many snippets simply strung together by others, and no flow of thought, and with the quite-varied career of Mohammed himself, it was inevitable that some verses would contradict others. So the imams decided on a hermeneutical strategy called "abrogation." Abrogation means that a verse said to be later in origin supersedes any verse said to be earlier. In other words, Mohammed's view of the words from God changed over time...he moved from pacifism to militarism, and from a conciliatory stance toward Christians, Jews and infidels, to a less compromising stand, and then to outright hatred and advocacy of violence, as he went from Medinan outcast to Meccan warlord.

The upshot is that Islam became a religion of pacification rather than of peace. It became militant instead of conciliatory. It became hostile and conquest-minded to the rest of the world, rather than invitational. Yes, there would be "peace." But only when the whole world was subjugated to Islam and made into "dar-al-salaam," "the house of peace": until then, the world would remain "dar al-harb," the "house of war." There would be no peace until all other nations were pacified and submitted to Islam.

And the remainder of Islamic history shows that story playing out just as one would predict. The Koran's earlier verses were abrogated, and violent conquest become the rule for North Africa and Europe, until Islam was defeated and mostly pushed back into the Middle East.

Abrogation was the issue. The "right" interpretation of the Koran is the one that follows that principle, according to Islamic experts.
Let's not get started IC, you know how I feel about liars and those that believe in leprechauns and their pot of gold.

According to the bulk of PhD's that have studied it and other ancient texts, some that have "Islamophobia" (are guilty of Islamoprejudice) have taken some passages in the Qur'an out of context, while all the others are simply followers, you know, look into your mirror.

And you should also know that I'll trust Academics with PhD's over idiots that believe in leprechauns any day.

I know that many ignorant people visit this forum never truly understanding or seeking knowledge. I don't really have time for them. The older I get the more mean and nasty I get while attempting to educate them on what it is. My patience grows ever thinner and you've seen it in the past.

I can't endure those that refuse to logically analyze the past, steeped in mysticism due to their fear of death, instead of arriving at logical conclusions.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by Age » Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:30 am

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:36 pm
The only way to know for sure is to study the Qurʾan and other historical documents, paying close attention to context, as I understand that is why many get the wrong impression.
What is the right impression?

Islam is peaceful?

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:05 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:34 am
Let's not get started IC,
"Get started"? On what?

I was not "starting" anything. I was just telling you history, and history that you can get from any Islamic source too. For example, on abrogation, see this very, very Islamic source: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/105746/ ... and-verses

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:03 am

Age wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:30 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:36 pm
The only way to know for sure is to study the Qurʾan and other historical documents, paying close attention to context, as I understand that is why many get the wrong impression.
What is the right impression?

Islam is peaceful?
No, rather that groupism is for the ignorant. And that knowledge is indeed power; the power to truly understand what's going on; ie., the current state of the human condition. That includes us all, that's you and me son.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:30 am

Immanuel Can wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:05 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:34 am
Let's not get started IC,
"Get started"? On what?

I was not "starting" anything. I was just telling you history, and history that you can get from any Islamic source too. For example, on abrogation, see this very, very Islamic source: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/105746/ ... and-verses
As you see it, and everyone here that knows anything real, knows that your minds eye is clouded as to the TRUTH of a great many things! You like many are a cherry picker.

All humans are the same, in that they all have the fear of death, and they all want to ensure that their life is as long as they can make it last, and in that endeavour, they often, much like you, can't see the life for the self, yes, not much past their own noses. And so steeped in that ignorance they lash out at windmills, yes, metaphorically, tilting at windmills. Some of us seek shelter in religion, philosophy, and in any particular combination of those and all other academic studies so as to attempt to quell those fears, but unfortunately many don't have the minds eye to include everything they can know, to come to the ultimate conclusion, that's it's not any one or particular combination of thing/s, that it's actually everything, else they are blinded by, only part of the story; too lazy or selfish to be inclusive of it all.

If one can't fit all human lifes pieces together in the puzzle of understanding our universe, they'll never know the truth of it all, they'll be passed by, by all those that truly understand how to proceed and become closer to truth.

It's never been about exclusion, it's always been about inclusion, that we can finally understand the absolute truth of all things, human and otherwise.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:41 am

It's one thing to have knowledge of what someone said or wrote, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that what they said or wrote is in fact knowledge.

A simple idea, but one that many fail to consider, for a great many reasons.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by Immanuel Can » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:09 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:30 am
You like many are a cherry picker.
I "cherry picked" an Islamic website to show you what Islamic experts hold to be true about Islam.

Seems fair to me. :shock:

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by waxberry4@gmail.com » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:00 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:36 am
bahman wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:07 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:24 am

First there is the linguistic issue.
Hebrew and Arabic words are mainly from trilateral roots where a three-alphabet-root can have many similar and different meanings.
Muslims try to deceive others that the word itself 'Islam' meant 'peace' but as the OP explained, "Islam" from the root S-L-M specifically meant submission to Allah and its command.

Yes, Christianity and Islam are both about submission and surrender to the will/commands of God.
But what is critical here is, what are the nature of the commands of God encoded in the holy texts.

The problem with Islam and the Quran is the commands/words of Allah are immutable and loaded with tons of evil laden verses. This is evident by the terrible evil and violent acts committed by SOME [critical quantum] evil prone Muslims in compliance as a divine duty to please Allah.

The main ethos of Christianity on the other hand as represented in the New Testament [overriding the OT] is that of love, i.e. love your enemies, neighbors, give the other cheeks and all sorts of concession. These commands are not very practical but that's God command.
Whatever is written in the OT [as translated] is not taken to be immutable but principles-based.
Well, there is not such a big difference, your hell either start in this world or in another world anyway.
Note this big critical difference;

Image

The major evil acts of the above are driven directly by the evil ethos within the Quran and intrinsic to Islam.

There are Christians who commit evil and violent acts but they are not inspired by the words of Jesus and the God of Christianity as represented in the NT.
It is the same with all other religions [Judaism?? = contentious] which do not inspire their believers to commit evil and violent acts against non-believers as a divine duty in the name of a God.

Still no significant difference?
This is plainly wrong. Throughout history Christians have always been committing atrocities inspired by teaching of the Bible, including the NT. The thing is: modern Christians have mostly adopted mild interpretation of their holy book, while many Muslims are still indoctrinated by more extreme interpretation of the Quran. The holy books of both religions can be interpreted in great variety of ways. This shapes the difference between extremism and the rest.
P.S: Historically Christians had acted more violently than Muslims. The Crusaders committed genocide at Jerusalem while the Muslims didn't retaliate when they later recaptured it.

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Re: Islam Means Peace?

Post by Immanuel Can » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:15 pm

waxberry4@gmail.com wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:00 am
Throughout history Christians have always been committing atrocities inspired by teaching of the Bible, including the NT.
Both statistically and theologically untrue. Sorry. It just is.

Religious wars, in total, have killed about 8% of all the war dead. Of those, half (4%) have been killed by wars generated in the name of the "Religion of Peace," Islam. Of the remaining 4%, all other religions are combined...Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Catholicism, etc. So "religion," if it is a contributor to war, is, by any account, a small cause not a big one -- even with Islam included.

However, some groups, like the Anabaptists, Mennonites and Quakers, never caused even one war ever. :shock: So for them, the claim is just downright slanderous.
The holy books of both religions can be interpreted in great variety of ways.

"Interpreted"? No, just ignored or taken seriously. There isn't actually much dispute about what the books say, at least on the grand scale. What's much more varied is how much people determine to obey them.
P.S: Historically Christians had acted more violently than Muslims.
Actually, you couldn't be more factually wrong, even if you imagined that "Catholic" and "Christian" were synonyms.

We should note that the Crusades themselves were political events using a religious banner, not religious events using a political one, by any fair account. But let's pretend that's not true. Let's pretend it's all the same soft soap.

While we don't know how many people the Catholic Crusades killed, the wildest and most anti-Catholic estimates by Atheist apologists never exceed single-digit millions...that is, from 1 to 9 million at the most extreme, including all dead on any side by any cause whatever, including disaster, disease and starvation. In contrast, by charitable estimate, the Muslim Crusades which began under Mohammed himself extended over a millennium and a half enslaved and killed somewhere around 270 million.

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