Virgin Birth Myths

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:17 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:58 pm

Every time a human being has sex with another human being..is there not an unconscious desire to bring more life into the world?

What about the animals, what is this drive to want to procreate?

If there's so much gibberish, evil, and suffering in the world, then why are we still having babies?

Why are we consciously contributing to more suffering, evil and gibberish in the world?


Can this be stopped?

Stop reciting from your text book and think rationally and intelligently now ..without resorting to memory of what's already old news that hasn't worked, else why is there still suffering and misery in the world?

What has science done to improve the human condition?

Why are graduates suing the universities for tens of thousands of pounds because there are no jobs, why do the universities mislead their students?

My son has just finished his PhD in geography at Manchester university...and can't get a job for love nor money...

What's gone wrong?

I told my son to rewrite his CV to make himself look dumb in the hope that this may give him a better chance of securing a job better...his current CV informs employers that he is over qualified for the job, or he hasn't got enough experience....

How was he supposed to get experience while spending endless days with his head in books?

Where's the progress in that societal mentality...where's the science in that?


.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:45 pm

Greta wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:48 pm
DAM and Nick make an impassioned case against rational thinking in favour of magical thinking, and inductive reasoning over deductive.

Trouble is, everyone engages in inductive reasoning, giving us theoretically up to seven billion different models of reality, so if we are to believe everyone we have chaos. Deductive reasoning allows us to have and share information in the public domain. If inductive reasoning is not tempered by rationality then there is little useful exchange or discussion, rather just the one who had induced an idea to "tell it from the mountain".
Infinite bodies, infinite thoughts, infinite models of reasoning...ONE BEING.

If you are too blind to see that, then it is you who is not thinking rationally, not the ones who already know that all rationality is the only reasonable explanation that there is such a mind that can think rationality in the first place.


There had to exist a rational mind, before you could know it existed. You only know stuff only because you have to dip into this rational mind every time you want to be reminded that a rational mind exists..if it didn't exist, then you wouldn't know to know what you already knew.

You knew nothing at your birth, so where do you think all your knowing came from?

It came from you, that already existed prior to your birth...this is intelligent rational thinking.


The thing is, you never had to think a thought..it was all done for you...now that's what I call magic.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:35 pm

Greta wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:48 pm
DAM and Nick make an impassioned case against rational thinking in favour of magical thinking, and inductive reasoning over deductive.

Trouble is, everyone engages in inductive reasoning, giving us theoretically up to seven billion different models of reality, so if we are to believe everyone we have chaos. Deductive reasoning allows us to have and share information in the public domain. If inductive reasoning is not tempered by rationality then there is little useful exchange or discussion, rather just the one who had induced an idea to "tell it from the mountain".
Anyone can recite from memory, does having a good memory make one more rational than another, no of course not.

You are an original, nature doesn't make copies. You are an original and so is everyone and everything else.

''If no one has told you yet that you're a genius and an artist, let me be the first. ''


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyD1vRidhyc

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:10 pm

Greta
The problem you have, Nick, is that rational thinking routinely checks out top-down angles along with bottom-up deductions because it is simply rational to use all resources at one's disposal, not just the "accepted" ones, which are the only ideas that are published.
First of all, top down reasoning beginning with the ONE and verifying the interactions of universal laws that involute and create the levels of reality which sustain the great universe requires the conscious experience of the vertical direction connecting levels of reality. Without this awareness, deductive reason which reveals the dynamics of our universe is impossible. The ancients were well aware of the problem. It is recorded in the Bible as the myth of the Tower of Babel.

Genesis 11:1-9
Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let usgo down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
Moving eastword means psychologically growing in knowledge.
Building with bricks instead of stone means psychologically building with man made perversions of objective truth. Building a tower to God on man made conceptions creates a faulty foundation leading to disaster so knowledge had to be devolved into opinions and its been that way ever since. Trying to create a tower or a conscious perspective leading to higher consciousness by means of inductive logic leads to chaos and destructive false pride.

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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:22 pm

Greta wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:48 pm
DAM and Nick make an impassioned case against rational thinking in favour of magical thinking, and inductive reasoning over deductive.
DAM: Who gave you the ''Greta mind'' so that you could think ''rational thinking'' notions?...
G: The natural environment, ancestors, society at large and personal experience.

DAM: do you not think that one is a rationally thinking mind?
G: We are minds but not necessarily rational.

DAM: Did Greta make that mind...who made that mind?
G: See above Q#1.

DAM: If the Great Greta made her own mind..then show me your mind?
G: As above, I didn't make my mind (aside from some faffing with details) - my mind has largely been shaped by my environment. As for showing you my mind, I do that regularly but you don't seem to show much interest :lol:

wisdomlover
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by wisdomlover » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:24 pm

What in the world does Trump have to do with this discussion?

Ad hominem arguments and insults are unbecoming a philosopher.

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:26 am

wisdomlover wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:24 pm
What in the world does Trump have to do with this discussion?

Ad hominem arguments and insults are unbecoming a philosopher.
Secular philosophy has a current axiom which is politically incorrect to question. It states: "When in doubt, blame Trump." It has replaced the Socratic axiom "I know nothing." Progress.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:54 am

Greta wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:22 pm

DAM: If the Great Greta made her own mind..then show me your mind?
G: As above, I didn't make my mind (aside from some faffing with details) - my mind has largely been shaped by my environment. As for showing you my mind, I do that regularly but you don't seem to show much interest :lol:
Thanks for proving your mind is nothing more than a bunch of made up words appearing on a blank screen.

In other words, like I've said all along, knowledge aka words, INFORM illusory reality.

It's been written since the beginning of time ...''In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God''

Time being a dream concept (one of an infinite amount of dreams) appearing showing now...on the timeless eternal blank screen of now.

And you're not doing any of it..it's doing you... :lol:

.

Anytime you want to remember what you said, it's all written ...Archived away in The Tower's of Babble.

ALL HIS-STORY

.

.

Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Belinda » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:47 am

wisdomlover wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:24 pm
What in the world does Trump have to do with this discussion?

Ad hominem arguments and insults are unbecoming a philosopher.
Good point, Wisdomlover.I take this opportunity to recap my theme.


I posted the original post about virgin birth myths because I am interested in how we may interpret any narrative. True, some interpretations are mad, schizophrenic , in their divorce from concrete realities, although psychiatrists like Thomas Szasz would take issue with that e.g.
If you talk to God, you are praying;
If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia.
--Thomas S. Szasz, The Second Sin
Apart from diagnoses of madness, unusual interpretations of myths about miraculous events might be useful when the myth is interpreted here and now, and by people who seek fresh ideas about metaphysics, psychology, anthropology, or ethics. I said "here and now" by which I meant interpretations guided by pragmatism and respect for uncertainty .

The Christian Virgin Birth story is of course a necessary component of the Christian myth as a whole. Perhaps the Christian myth as a whole may be variously interpreted to make it function as inspiration for moderns. I like iconic stories that can move with the times and help us to live well.

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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:03 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:54 am
Greta wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:22 pm

DAM: If the Great Greta made her own mind..then show me your mind?
G: As above, I didn't make my mind (aside from some faffing with details) - my mind has largely been shaped by my environment. As for showing you my mind, I do that regularly but you don't seem to show much interest :lol:
Thanks for proving your mind is nothing more than a bunch of made up words appearing on a blank screen.
I see now. So these words are the totality of me.

Excuse me while I go and cease to exist for a while ... until the next post when I shall briefly wink back into an existence whose ultimate fate is to lie within one of Google's archives.

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:55 am

Karl Marx said that religion is the opiate of the masses

Simone Weil retorted with the idea that revolution is the opiate of the masses

This is an excellent example of the ancient debate between proponents of secularism and religion.

Since the virgin birth is an essential part of Christian belief, it is natural that the secularists must regard it as a myth and the success of revolution through secular beliefs must be considered a myth as well

Secularism must remain closed to the virgin birth since it is psychologically closed to the third dimension of thought – awareness of the vertical direction of being within which the relativity of Man’s being is possible. The direct conscious descent of being within the quality of NOW enabling the virgin birth is absurd for the secularist with no experience of this vertical direction.

So the conflict will continue. Since we are as we are, everything remains as it is. What we are is determined by the quality of our being. The whole purpose of the virgin birth was to aid the fallen being of our species. Since modern progressive secularism is so established, benefiting by the results of the virgin birth is impossible for the great majority. Animal man will continue to follow the great natural cycles and after everything is said and done: dust to dust.

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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:12 am

Nick_A wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:55 am
Since the virgin birth is an essential part of Christian belief, it is natural that the secularists must regard it as a myth and the success of revolution through secular beliefs must be considered a myth as well
No, stop rationalising. Do you believe that Noah's Ark is a true account? Jonah and the whale?

It's just that people don't believe as many unrealistic things as they once did. This stems from a phenomenon called "learning" where experience, either had or relayed, is acquired. Thus, most adults outgrow the fantastical fables of their childhood.
Nick_A wrote:Secularism must remain closed to the virgin birth since it is psychologically closed to the third dimension of thought – awareness of the vertical direction of being within which the relativity of Man’s being is possible.
Utter nonsense and babble! How many bizarre contortions do you need to put your mind through to justify believing in an absurdity?

Most people are simply closed to obviously magical things happening - the parting of the sea, turning bread into fish (were they dead or flapping?), virgin births, rising from the dead, living in the belly of a whale, the personification of good and bad, it's just mythology.

Take what metaphors from it that you may but don't try to pretend that the obviously mythological was historical or you'll end up twisting into philosophical contortions as you did above.

Science Fan
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Science Fan » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:26 am

Nick A: Stop using the old guilt-by-association trick to claim that Marx was a secularist. Marx was a believer in the supernatural, so he's on your side of the fence. How else can one explain his claim that capitalism, socialism, and communism all had pre-ordained historical roles to fulfill? No atheist I know would ever make such a claim, but numerous theists make claims about human history being pre-ordained.

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:22 am

Science Fan wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:26 am
Nick A: Stop using the old guilt-by-association trick to claim that Marx was a secularist. Marx was a believer in the supernatural, so he's on your side of the fence. How else can one explain his claim that capitalism, socialism, and communism all had pre-ordained historical roles to fulfill? No atheist I know would ever make such a claim, but numerous theists make claims about human history being pre-ordained.
What is supernatural about normal mechanical cycles perfectly normal for the Great Beast responding to worldly and cosmic influences?

Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Nick_A » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:26 am

Greta
No, stop rationalising. Do you believe that Noah's Ark is a true account?
You call it a myth. What does the myth represent for you? What is the purpose of this myth?

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