Falling in love at first sight

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:47 am

reasonemotion wrote:Not at all.... what I am saying I see both sides... clinical and humorous .. which one are you lacking?


"You should feel good about it, you don't get woodies, you get steelies." :wink: :lol: :lol:

that was your quote, wasnt it? So I guess you saw the humor as well or maybe it is exclusively "men's business" for you.
What with the talk of the Mod, I thought you meant something else, so I misunderstood, we're good, sorry I misjudged.

Yes I was trying to mix a little humor in there, for levities sake. Hopefully he didn't feel like anyone was talking down to him, he's indicated he's younger, but still... I try and be as considerate as I can, for those that do likewise, It's the least they deserve. And if I seem to be rambling, I think it's just that I feel uncomfortable about being, in any way, responsible for anothers, potentially serious matters.

Later, from over down under!

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by reasonemotion » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:36 pm

I am sure you are a wonderful father!

I dont think I can find a category in the PNF to post my response above.

However, I think Falling in love at first sight is on reflection the perfect place for it. Cheers

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:52 pm

reasonemotion wrote:I am sure you are a wonderful father!
I don't know how much one can actually tell that from what I've written here in the PNF but my wife, mother and psychologist (also a woman) seem to think so. But then to know that you'd actually have to have been there. I know that as far as some of the content of my giving to my children goes, I've exceeded many, and unfortunately, upon reflection, I've decided that likewise, I failed them. But I know that I always tried my best, to give them what they needed at their particular stage of development, and never considered my needs above theirs, except when I was younger (pre 20yo), when I neglected doing the earliest required maintenance tasks, i.e. diapers!!! But by my third and last blood child (at 24yo) I even helped my wife take care of those routine tasks, You see where I came into my own with respect to child rearing, despite any opposing belief, was when I saw that spark of their person, such that I knew they were in their learning stage. I just loved paying them the attention in understanding that they sought and then meeting those needs, to make their way as easy as possible, such that through my children at least, I never experienced the "terrible twos," as they never experienced the neglect in attention that I believe, gives way to it.

So thanks, you accidentally struck a chord of truth, that you had no way of absolutely knowing. ;-) :) Fair dinkum!!



I dont think I can find a category in the PNF to post my response above.

However, I think Falling in love at first sight is on reflection the perfect place for it. Cheers

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The Voice of Time
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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by The Voice of Time » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:34 pm

On the topic of falling in love at first sight though, I think good motherhood, that is, a naturalness to care, comfort and strengthening of other people, are important parts to recognize in a person. What you others think of this? Do you feel the need for a woman or man more up to the task of parenthood? And in that case, do you find it something of a notice at first sight/meeting?

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by chaz wyman » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:14 pm

The Voice of Time wrote:On the topic of falling in love at first sight though, I think good motherhood, that is, a naturalness to care, comfort and strengthening of other people, are important parts to recognize in a person. What you others think of this? Do you feel the need for a woman or man more up to the task of parenthood? And in that case, do you find it something of a notice at first sight/meeting?
It never turned me on. Mummsie was always a turn off.
At 18 it had to do with soft brown hair; wavy and longer than the shoulders; slim body, with pert not not too large breasts; dress a floral pattern with dark or subdued natural colours; maybe jeans.
Above all a good intelligent smile.
I wonder whatever happened to Amanda - the girl I never asked out?

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by The Voice of Time » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:03 pm

chaz wyman wrote: I wonder whatever happened to Amanda - the girl I never asked out?
i wonder what happened to you and her long ago since you indicate it makes for a difference?

Would it have made a difference if you asked her out?

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by reasonemotion » Thu May 03, 2012 1:25 am

So thanks, you accidentally struck a chord of truth, that you had no way of absolutely knowing. Fair dinkum!!


It was no acccident, I assure you. Used my EQ, a good example for previous posts on this very subject.

To answer VofT's question. Parenting is a complex matter, which I have only realised. There are times when bonding doesnt happen between mother and child. I think the child needs to bond with at least one parent, it could be the father, it could be the mother, but I believe a closeness with an adult is needed for the child to feel safe and loved. Two necessary states imperative to nuture and produce an emotionally sound human being.

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by The Voice of Time » Thu May 03, 2012 1:11 pm

reasonemotion wrote:but I believe a closeness with an adult is needed for the child to feel safe and loved.
As a philosopher I find this logically absurd. Closeness, both literally and metaphorically are conditions for much more than safeness and lovedness, and you are only lucky if you end up with those two. I think it got more to do with the attitude of the adult, the way all the little things end up being done, than some closeness in general. Lack of closeness does here of course to me not condition a person to lack of emotional growth.

A strong and hearty mother who does not come close to her child but in all ways manages to make the person able to and successfully accomplish bonding with others, say the mother ends being the prime source of emotional exchange at age 3 and kindergarden becomes a successful successor, this should not impair a persons emotional growth.

Of course this is not an approach I like but nevertheless I object to the indication that an adult is essential or necessary to any greater degree. It may or may not be beneficial but not essential past the first two-three years.

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Thu May 03, 2012 4:43 pm

The Voice of Time wrote:
reasonemotion wrote:but I believe a closeness with an adult is needed for the child to feel safe and loved.
As a philosopher I find this logically absurd. Closeness, both literally and metaphorically are conditions for much more than safeness and lovedness, and you are only lucky if you end up with those two. I think it got more to do with the attitude of the adult, the way all the little things end up being done, than some closeness in general. Lack of closeness does here of course to me not condition a person to lack of emotional growth.

A strong and hearty mother who does not come close to her child but in all ways manages to make the person able to and successfully accomplish bonding with others, say the mother ends being the prime source of emotional exchange at age 3 and kindergarden becomes a successful successor, this should not impair a persons emotional growth.

Of course this is not an approach I like but nevertheless I object to the indication that an adult is essential or necessary to any greater degree. It may or may not be beneficial but not essential past the first two-three years.
I disagree, there can never be a bonding like parent and child outside the nuclear family. Surrogates just don't cut it! OK, It's like the substitute teacher that doesn't know exactly what page you're on, or just gives you a reading assignment without lecture, etc, sure you can get past it, but there's something missing, that familiar personality. It's like music, I never like a remake anything close to the original, like band members, someone leaves and it's never quite the same band, it's hardly ever better. I had both blood children and a step and even though I really tried to be just as loving to my step son, there was something missing, don't get me wrong, he was never treated as a "red headed step child," but their was an underlying, invisible connection that didn't exist between us, and because of it our relationship was slightly different. I'd say it, not quite as warm. This is in retrospect, mind you, and deals with subtleties. I would have never consciously treated him any different.

Of course this all depends upon the parent. There is a significant difference between a parent that wants and plans a child's arrival as compared to one that accidentally has one as a consequence of a one night stand. Some mothers and fathers want their child more than others, and I'd say that the truly wanted child always fairs better in life, especially with respect to interpersonal relationships. I for instance had I mother that I believed loved me, while I had a father that couldn't give a rats ass. I was a burden that caused him to not have the variety of women that he so desired, as his own mother had the shotgun in her hands at his wedding, either be responsible, marry her, or I'll cut you off, he was 19, my mother was 15, technically I was a bastard. Of course in the end a little piece of paper never really stopped him from getting his variety of women, but he despised me as the reason for his need to sneak around. He was the type to actually compete with his own child. He damaged me both physically and mentally. No, I assure you there is a difference between close relationships, and those kept at arms distance, and it can seriously effect the child.

As to sex and abstinence, I've told young adults, that it's extremely serious business, forget the fact that you can catch an STD that can kill you, that's nothing, that you die, so what, big deal! But the really serious thing, is that you can have a child, now that is SERIOUS!!!!! One has to ensure that they are psychologically and financially prepared for it, because the child's life depends upon it, we're talking about a GREAT responsibility here.

You can say that my little speech is harsh, but I believe it's intended results are the difference between bearing positive loving, thinking, caring humans and cold lifeless, often evil, "take a gun to school and blow everybody away," automatons.

The love and closeness between parent and child is priceless!

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by chaz wyman » Thu May 03, 2012 7:20 pm

The Voice of Time wrote:
chaz wyman wrote: I wonder whatever happened to Amanda - the girl I never asked out?
i wonder what happened to you and her long ago since you indicate it makes for a difference?

Would it have made a difference if you asked her out?
Yes, all actions change the future.

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by reasonemotion » Mon May 07, 2012 12:23 pm

Voice of Time wrote
in response to the question of mothering.

" I think it got more to do with the attitude of the adult, the way all the little things end up being done"

My response with hindsight was blinkered and I see some wisdom in VoT's opinion. Of course ideally, a safe, loving, secure environment is what mothers wish for their children, but sometimes things go awry. There is definitely a "cut off" time for mothers, I think two or three years of age is rather tender, perhaps a few more years on, but there are mothers who will not relinquish their children at any age or to anyone. This is disatrous for all concerned. My ex-husband, an only child had a mother who was jealous of every woman in his life. Against her wishes he married me. She was devasted he could do this. He, in her mind had betrayed her. She committed suicide and left an endearing note of their eventual reunion. He told me his life as we knew it was over. So ended our marriage. BTW he is still living as far as I know. LOL. There is an extreme case of a mother loving a child too much and a child loving a mother too much. It is unnatural.

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by chaz wyman » Mon May 07, 2012 12:52 pm

reasonemotion wrote:Voice of Time wrote
in response to the question of mothering.

" I think it got more to do with the attitude of the adult, the way all the little things end up being done"

My response with hindsight was blinkered and I see some wisdom in VoT's opinion. Of course ideally, a safe, loving, secure environment is what mothers wish for their children, but sometimes things go awry. There is definitely a "cut off" time for mothers, I think two or three years of age is rather tender, perhaps a few more years on, but there are mothers who will not relinquish their children at any age or to anyone. This is disatrous for all concerned. My ex-husband, an only child had a mother who was jealous of every woman in his life. Against her wishes he married me. She was devasted he could do this. He, in her mind had betrayed her. She committed suicide and left an endearing note of their eventual reunion. He told me his life as we knew it was over. So ended our marriage. BTW he is still living as far as I know. LOL. There is an extreme case of a mother loving a child too much and a child loving a mother too much. It is unnatural.
Not at all unnatural, just inconvenient. Some mothers never want to nurture their children and reject then even before they are born. My father told me that my mother (who never showed any love to her children), resisted our births one after the other, right up till the last minute.
This is all natural - but also inconvenient. Nature does not equip people with perfection, despite whatever moral measure you put it to.
For further consideration of this point please refer to Hume's "is/ought" problem, and the fallacy of naturalism.

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by reasonemotion » Mon May 07, 2012 2:51 pm

resisted our births one after the other, right up till the last minute
If you are referring to the actual birth, some women do hold back out of fear and pain, others of course "get on with it as quickly as possible". If it was pain, your mother may have embraced that memory which in turn equates children/pain. The majority of women seem to forget quite rapidly the pain involved. Others may disagree strongly with me on the last sentence.

As an after thought, as Dianna said of her marriage with Charles "there were three of us in this marriage". In my case, my ex, his mother and me, in that order.

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by chaz wyman » Mon May 07, 2012 3:15 pm

reasonemotion wrote:
resisted our births one after the other, right up till the last minute
If you are referring to the actual birth, some women do hold back out of fear and pain, others of course "get on with it as quickly as possible". If it was pain, your mother may have embraced that memory which in turn equates children/pain. The majority of women seem to forget quite rapidly the pain involved. Others may disagree strongly with me on the last sentence.

As an after thought, as Dianna said of her marriage with Charles "there were three of us in this marriage". In my case, my ex, his mother and me, in that order.
Maybe shmaybe, she had no mothering 'instinct", no interest in children at all. Luckily for me her own mother was a paragon of virtue in this respect.
In any event I do not see either woman as either more or less 'natural'.

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Re: Falling in love at first sight

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Mon May 07, 2012 3:26 pm

I see that this is all psychology. Obviously those women that have problems with children have had some sort of distracting psychological trauma. I see no problem with naturalism, that a disease of the mind doesn't address. As we travel back through the annals of time to our more simpler selves of single cells, do we see a problem with nature, or nurture, sure nurture probably didn't exit then, but as we reverse course back to the present taking notice along the way of each permutation, do we see a problem along the way? I believe that only in a more modern day environment do we find the peripheral psychological distractions that attribute to this problem. There are too many concerns with fluff!

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