Dreams

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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chaz wyman
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Re: Dreams

Post by chaz wyman » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:45 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:I am new to this forum and have just read about half of the posts on this subject. I can assure you that dreams are not "just a dream" because I have been working with my dreams since 1984 and have learned a little of the meaning of the symbols we use in our dreams. I have read Freud and Jung because they were supposed to be the primary sources of information on dreams. I found both to be much more complicated than my simple mind could absorb, so I did my own thing in accordance with an instruction I found in Dr. Joseph Murphy's POWER OF YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND. His theme is that the subconscious is that part of us that is always awake and always in touch with God. I was skeptical, but I tried his method and discovered a great deal about myself. I began recording my dreams in 1984 and have written 1600 plus pages of dreams during the intervening years. With the assistance of a wonderful woman, I began to learn to interpret my dreams and have learned a lot of the symbols we humans use as references.

In the first dream posted on this thread, the dreamer was in a dark place. Being "in the dark" simply means that the dreamer was unenlightened about what was worrying him/her.

As a general rule, I do not interpret dreams for others since I have no knowledge of the events in their lives. However, I will, if asked, tell a dreamer what the symbols in his/her dream mean, but they then have to apply that information to what is going on in their life.

Most people tend to make the mistake that you ask them their dreams and you can read off a series of Freudian statements from a list.
Dreams are as unique as the person. There is no one more able to interpret your dreams than you yourself. Do not ever let anyone tell you differently.
Within your own mind and heart, that from which the dream was generated holds the key, such as it is to help your understand. But do not allow yourself to think that you can simply read off a meaning, or take such interpretations as advice from which you may rule your own life. A dream is the brain sifting through stuff it has to deal with. When you go through paperwork you often find stuff in the wrong order, and that brain is a view on this sorting process - not in good order but a confusion of images, thoughts and feelings.
Dreams are not cryptic messages that can be read by experts. Such experts can make their pronouncements, but nothing they can say can be verified, and usually just reflect their own Freudian prejudices.
Dream Interpretation is pseudo-science.

Lone Wolf
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Re: Dreams

Post by Lone Wolf » Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:08 am

I agree almost completely, but I do know there are some people with a gift for dream interpretation. Like psychics, there are some who are not charlatans. I had the great good fortune (or perhaps my subconscious made that person available when I needed her) of knowing one of these gifted people. She was there when I needed her and then she was gone when it time for me to learn for myself. Her gift was intuitive. My knowldege of symbols came through much repetition of having the symbols in my own dreams. I tend to use logic and reason in lieu of intuition. Therefore, I cannot "feel" what the symbols might mean in the dreams of someone else.

Dimebag
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Re: Dreams

Post by Dimebag » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:12 am

Lone Wolf wrote:I agree almost completely, but I do know there are some people with a gift for dream interpretation. Like psychics, there are some who are not charlatans. I had the great good fortune (or perhaps my subconscious made that person available when I needed her) of knowing one of these gifted people. She was there when I needed her and then she was gone when it time for me to learn for myself. Her gift was intuitive. My knowldege of symbols came through much repetition of having the symbols in my own dreams. I tend to use logic and reason in lieu of intuition. Therefore, I cannot "feel" what the symbols might mean in the dreams of someone else.
I dislike the idea of symbolism when it comes to interpreting dreams. It seems to me that dream interpretation can only ever occur through a process of induction. You extrapolate based on a hunch. You are probably more likely to make hunches which you are biased towards, and therefore it might seem like the interpretation of the dream is meaningful to you, however it's no more meaningful than reading wax drippings or pigeon guts.

I prefer the idea of associations when it comes to dreams. The subconscious mind operates in this non logical way, and no more so than when dreaming. If you can work out the associations which trigger the themes and content in your dreams you can get a better idea of what is dogging your mind, allowing you to explore them closer.

This to me makes more sense than symbols.

When it comes to my dreams, however, I prefer to keep them locked away.

chaz wyman
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Re: Dreams

Post by chaz wyman » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:35 am

Lone Wolf wrote:I agree almost completely, but I do know there are some people with a gift for dream interpretation. Like psychics, there are some who are not charlatans. I had the great good fortune (or perhaps my subconscious made that person available when I needed her) of knowing one of these gifted people. She was there when I needed her and then she was gone when it time for me to learn for myself. Her gift was intuitive. My knowldege of symbols came through much repetition of having the symbols in my own dreams. I tend to use logic and reason in lieu of intuition. Therefore, I cannot "feel" what the symbols might mean in the dreams of someone else.
All psychics are phoney. The worse one are the sincere ones as they have managed not only to convince others but also themselves. Their gift is not in finding the truth about you, but in convincing you that their false conception of you is correct - beware; their skill is not in credibility but in appearing to be credible.
The techniques are well know.

Does the name Bill mean anything to you?

Lone Wolf
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Re: Dreams

Post by Lone Wolf » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:33 pm

Bill has no meaning for me whatsoever.

As far as psychics are concerned, I believe that some have a gift. However, I also believe that those who sell their gift have done exactly that. The sold it so they no longer have it. Hence, most psychics are charlatans.

Lone Wolf
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Re: Dreams

Post by Lone Wolf » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:52 pm

Dimebag wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:I agree almost completely, but I do know there are some people with a gift for dream interpretation. Like psychics, there are some who are not charlatans. I had the great good fortune (or perhaps my subconscious made that person available when I needed her) of knowing one of these gifted people. She was there when I needed her and then she was gone when it time for me to learn for myself. Her gift was intuitive. My knowldege of symbols came through much repetition of having the symbols in my own dreams. I tend to use logic and reason in lieu of intuition. Therefore, I cannot "feel" what the symbols might mean in the dreams of someone else.
I dislike the idea of symbolism when it comes to interpreting dreams. It seems to me that dream interpretation can only ever occur through a process of induction. You extrapolate based on a hunch. You are probably more likely to make hunches which you are biased towards, and therefore it might seem like the interpretation of the dream is meaningful to you, however it's no more meaningful than reading wax drippings or pigeon guts.

I prefer the idea of associations when it comes to dreams. The subconscious mind operates in this non logical way, and no more so than when dreaming. If you can work out the associations which trigger the themes and content in your dreams you can get a better idea of what is dogging your mind, allowing you to explore them closer.

This to me makes more sense than symbols.

When it comes to my dreams, however, I prefer to keep them locked away.
Each person has to choose his or her own path. I chose to use my dreams to learn about myself and discovered that I am a really wonderful person. I also found out that I had been angry with my mother for more than forty years, dealt with the problem and cured myself of high blood pressure.

Re: Your statement that the subconscious operates in this nonlogical way is exactly opposite my understanding. The subconscious has total recall and gives it back to you with symbols when you are dreaming. In most cases our conscious mind does not have the recall of the subconscious and therefore our dreams seem confusing and meaningless. Understanding the symbols helps with understanding. For example, a woman told me of a dream in which her youngest daughter went into the street and was killed by an automobile. As a result, she restricted her daughter's outings to fenced yards and playgrounds away from traffic.

What the dream was telling her was that her baby was no longer a baby. She was growing up. She had changed and the baby she had been was dead because now she was a little girl. I passed that information to the woman. A few days later she told me she had seen her daughter riding a bicycle and she realized the daughter had changed. The symbol of death of a loved one or a friend simply means that the relationship you had with that person is dead. Your relationship is different. I find symbols very helpful.

chaz wyman
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Re: Dreams

Post by chaz wyman » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:21 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:Bill has no meaning for me whatsoever.

Yes!! I knew it! See how easy it is to read a mind?


As far as psychics are concerned, I believe that some have a gift. However, I also believe that those who sell their gift have done exactly that. The sold it so they no longer have it. Hence, most psychics are charlatans.
How do you think that works?
If I have a gift to paint, and I sell a painting this does not mean I no longer have a gift to paint.
Surely you are just talking bollocks here?

chaz wyman
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Re: Dreams

Post by chaz wyman » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:22 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
Dimebag wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:I agree almost completely, but I do know there are some people with a gift for dream interpretation. Like psychics, there are some who are not charlatans. I had the great good fortune (or perhaps my subconscious made that person available when I needed her) of knowing one of these gifted people. She was there when I needed her and then she was gone when it time for me to learn for myself. Her gift was intuitive. My knowldege of symbols came through much repetition of having the symbols in my own dreams. I tend to use logic and reason in lieu of intuition. Therefore, I cannot "feel" what the symbols might mean in the dreams of someone else.
I dislike the idea of symbolism when it comes to interpreting dreams. It seems to me that dream interpretation can only ever occur through a process of induction. You extrapolate based on a hunch. You are probably more likely to make hunches which you are biased towards, and therefore it might seem like the interpretation of the dream is meaningful to you, however it's no more meaningful than reading wax drippings or pigeon guts.

I prefer the idea of associations when it comes to dreams. The subconscious mind operates in this non logical way, and no more so than when dreaming. If you can work out the associations which trigger the themes and content in your dreams you can get a better idea of what is dogging your mind, allowing you to explore them closer.

This to me makes more sense than symbols.

When it comes to my dreams, however, I prefer to keep them locked away.
Each person has to choose his or her own path. I chose to use my dreams to learn about myself and discovered that I am a really wonderful person. I also found out that I had been angry with my mother for more than forty years, dealt with the problem and cured myself of high blood pressure.
.
Try Ramipril - it actually works.

Lone Wolf
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Re: Dreams

Post by Lone Wolf » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:36 pm

Try Ramipril - it actually works.[/quote]


So do a number of other meds, but it seems to me that it is better to learn the cause of the problem and correct it so I don't have to depend on a pill.

Lone Wolf
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Re: Dreams

Post by Lone Wolf » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:21 pm

.[/quote]

How do you think that works?
If I have a gift to paint, and I sell a painting this does not mean I no longer have a gift to paint.
Surely you are just talking bollocks here?[/quote]

Bollocks must be a colloquialism where you are. I'm a Texan and have no idea what you're talking about.

However, you've given me a different perspective. I never thought about it in terms of other gifts we may have and which we use in order to support ourselves. Now I will have to spend some time trying to understand that in relation to my belief system. Thanks for the wake up call.

chaz wyman
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Re: Dreams

Post by chaz wyman » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:39 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
chaz wyman wrote: How do you think that works?
If I have a gift to paint, and I sell a painting this does not mean I no longer have a gift to paint.
Surely you are just talking bollocks here?
Bollocks must be a colloquialism where you are. I'm a Texan and have no idea what you're talking about.

However, you've given me a different perspective. I never thought about it in terms of other gifts we may have and which we use in order to support ourselves. Now I will have to spend some time trying to understand that in relation to my belief system. Thanks for the wake up call.
No, problem.

FYI: Bollocks is the same as testicles. Equivalent to American Bullshit.
Try it on your Texan friends. It's a good ol' English word.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Dreams

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:44 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:Bill has no meaning for me whatsoever.

As far as psychics are concerned, I believe that some have a gift. However, I also believe that those who sell their gift have done exactly that. The sold it so they no longer have it. Hence, most psychics are charlatans.
'Psychics do indeed have a 'gift', the gift of manipulation and deceit, and an uncanny ability to separate the gullible and the vulnerable from their money.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chaz wyman
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Re: Dreams

Post by chaz wyman » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:19 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:Bill has no meaning for me whatsoever.

As far as psychics are concerned, I believe that some have a gift. However, I also believe that those who sell their gift have done exactly that. The sold it so they no longer have it. Hence, most psychics are charlatans.
'Psychics do indeed have a 'gift', the gift of manipulation and deceit, and an canny ability to separate the gullible and the vulnerable from their money.
Many of them believe their 'gift' is honest and 'psychic'. They are the most dangerous.

Lone Wolf
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Re: Dreams

Post by Lone Wolf » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:07 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:Bill has no meaning for me whatsoever.


'Psychics do indeed have a 'gift', the gift of manipulation and deceit, and an uncanny ability to separate the gullible and the vulnerable from their money.

Without exception? I know a woman who works with the FBI on cases and refuses payment for what she offers. She makes her living by running a gift shop. She doesn't do "readings" and will offer questions to those who ask for her help. She never makes predictions.

After my first visit with this woman, I gave her a dream I had in 1984 which consisted only of the following numbers: 2116 3100 7162. In less than a minute she asked me what had happened when I was 14 that made me feel I was completely alone in the world and what happened when I was 7 that gave me the same feeling. That was my entire experience with her on her psychic abilities.

From her questions I recalled both times when I felt that I was completely without human support. One was in 1946 (I was 7) and the other was in 1953 (I was 14)

My experience is that there are exceptions.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Dreams

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:37 am

Lone Wolf wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:Bill has no meaning for me whatsoever.


'Psychics do indeed have a 'gift', the gift of manipulation and deceit, and an uncanny ability to separate the gullible and the vulnerable from their money.

Without exception? I know a woman who works with the FBI on cases and refuses payment for what she offers. She makes her living by running a gift shop. She doesn't do "readings" and will offer questions to those who ask for her help. She never makes predictions.

After my first visit with this woman, I gave her a dream I had in 1984 which consisted only of the following numbers: 2116 3100 7162. In less than a minute she asked me what had happened when I was 14 that made me feel I was completely alone in the world and what happened when I was 7 that gave me the same feeling. That was my entire experience with her on her psychic abilities.

From her questions I recalled both times when I felt that I was completely without human support. One was in 1946 (I was 7) and the other was in 1953 (I was 14)

My experience is that there are exceptions.
So how many cases has she solved? There is no guarantee that superstitious idiots don't work for the FBI. The police have no right to give those charlatans any credence at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idVxRE8uM-A

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