Experiment to show your state of delusion

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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seeds
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by seeds »

roydop wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:22 pm The only way to prove or disprove this theory is to ENGAGE IN THE PRACTICE

Depending upon your karmic momentum (your state of delusion) it may take years, even decades of dedicated practice (simply shifting attention away from thoughts and into the space between thoughts). This is the singular purpose of Life....
So then, the "...singular purpose of life..." is to "avoid thoughts." Really?

I know you mean well, roy, but when it comes to figuring out the "purpose" of life, you seem to have gotten it backwards.

I mean, if your drug-driven "explorations" into the nature and truth of reality have not allowed you to realize that this...

Image

...is an image of unimaginably advanced and ordered "thoughts" (mental holography) suspended in the spatial "arena" of a higher Being's mind, then perhaps you're experimenting with the wrong drugs.

In other words, before you dismiss the value of thoughts, you need to understand that without the existence of the process and outcome of thought, you and I would never have come into existence.

Oh, and by the way, whatever it was you smoked in that wild "trip video" of yours, even that (the substance itself) is made of pure thought.

I suggest that such substances are intentionally meant to provide us with openings (or apertures) through-which we can catch "hazy glimpses" of a higher (transcendent) level of reality.

However, the problem is that the "hazy glimpses" are almost always misinterpreted, which I suspect is the issue here with your backwards "theory."

Indeed, I suggest that entheogenic substances are related to the Biblical mythology of eating of the "fruit" from the so-called "Tree of Knowledge," which was probably...

(at least according to the "trip master" himself, Terence McKenna)

...an allusion to what may have happened when the early hominids inadvertently ingested psycho-active substances from the plants and mushrooms they were foraging on. Which, in turn, activated processes in their brains that then helped to elevate (awaken their minds) from their ("ignorance is bliss") ape-like level of consciousness, up to the human level of consciousness of self-awareness,

All of which is allegorically depicted in the Garden of Eden myth where they suddenly became aware of their nakedness...

Image

...which, prior to that point was meaningless to them...

Image

There's even a modern version of the Eden myth in the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, where the apes are prompted into awakening into a higher level of consciousness after making contact with the mysterious obelisk.

Image

The bottom line is that this thread, which you intended to offer as an experiment to show "our" state of delusion, has, instead, revealed "your" state of delusion.

For you seem to be suggesting that we'd be better off if we devolved back into this (pre-Eden) level of consciousness...

Image

...where we won't be quite so burdened with pesky (post Eden) thoughts such as nakedness, or shame, or inventing new technologies and medicines, or of visions of space travel, or of how and why we are here, etc., etc., etc..
_______
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bahman
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by bahman »

roydop wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:38 am If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

🙏
Thoughts are two types intentional and unintentional. They are the result of mental process and depends on your whole life experiences.
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Sculptor
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:55 pm
roydop wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:38 am If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

🙏
Thoughts are two types intentional and unintentional. They are the result of mental process and depends on your whole life experiences.
Yes! Now you are a determinist.
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bahman
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by bahman »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:25 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:55 pm
roydop wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:38 am If you sit in a quiet room without doing or thinking anything (if the body is "you" and the thoughts in your consciousness are "yours", then one would assume that you would be able to control the movements of the body and the mind) you will see:

A: You will not be able to stop thinking for more than a few seconds at a time. You will have no choice but to listen to the voice that is speaking into your consciousness

B: Of those thoughts you will have no choice what the thoughts will be. They will enter your consciousness at random

If you are objective and relatively ego-free, you will come to the conclusion that you do not have control over your own mind. Another reasonable conclusion would be that this uncontrolled mind is the source of all of your problems

Being able to steer your car one way or another while having no brakes or parking gear, is not having control over your car. In the same way, being able to steer the thoughts that enter your consciousness one way or another while not being able to stop them, is not having control over the (it's not yours) mind

Even though this is obvious there will be some here who will refuse to see. This is due to their deep state of delusion. The thing about delusion is that people who are in it don't know are in it because they are in it

I have made my way out of the delusion and feel a natural drive to help others out of it

🙏
Thoughts are two types intentional and unintentional. They are the result of mental process and depends on your whole life experiences.
Yes! Now you are a determinist.
No, I have the freedom to stop my thoughts. Meditation!
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Sculptor
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by Sculptor »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:10 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:25 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:55 pm
Thoughts are two types intentional and unintentional. They are the result of mental process and depends on your whole life experiences.
Yes! Now you are a determinist.
No, I have the freedom to stop my thoughts. Meditation!
Your choice to stop is determined by your volition
Iwannaplato
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:55 pm Thoughts are two types intentional and unintentional. They are the result of mental process and depends on your whole life experiences.
So, what sets that first thought in motion that decides 'I will now focus on....' Did you intend that thought? And then what thought intended that one?
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bahman
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:07 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:55 pm Thoughts are two types intentional and unintentional. They are the result of mental process and depends on your whole life experiences.
So, what sets that first thought in motion that decides 'I will now focus on....' Did you intend that thought? And then what thought intended that one?
Thoughts are intentional when you are focusing on a subject otherwise they are unintentional. The way thoughts are built is out of your control but you can decide to think and focus on the subject more or not. If you have proper inputs (your whole life experience) in your mind then it may produce a proper thought related to the subject you are focusing on. You eventually get output from your mind when you focus enough on the subject if you have the proper inputs, you then judge the thought, either accept it or reject it. Either way, the new output is a new input to your mind.
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:31 pm Thoughts are intentional when you are focusing on a subject otherwise they are unintentional. The way thoughts are built is out of your control but you can decide to think and focus on the subject more or not. If you have proper inputs (your whole life experience) in your mind then it may produce a proper thought related to the subject you are focusing on. You eventually get output from your mind when you focus enough on the subject if you have the proper inputs, you then judge the thought, either accept it or reject it. Either way, the new output is a new input to your mind.
So,do you decide to focus your thoughts and does that thought come intentionally. If it does, then before you had that thought you decided to focus intentionally. What led to that? When did the intentionality come into the process? at what stage?
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bahman
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:41 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:31 pm Thoughts are intentional when you are focusing on a subject otherwise they are unintentional. The way thoughts are built is out of your control but you can decide to think and focus on the subject more or not. If you have proper inputs (your whole life experience) in your mind then it may produce a proper thought related to the subject you are focusing on. You eventually get output from your mind when you focus enough on the subject if you have the proper inputs, you then judge the thought, either accept it or reject it. Either way, the new output is a new input to your mind.
So,do you decide to focus your thoughts and does that thought come intentionally. If it does, then before you had that thought you decided to focus intentionally. What led to that? When did the intentionality come into the process? at what stage?
No, you focus on a subject and a related thought is built by your mind. For example, you already read what I wrote for you so the subject is your answer. Thoughts are built by your mind after reading my words and when you focus on answering me.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:27 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:41 pm
bahman wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:31 pm Thoughts are intentional when you are focusing on a subject otherwise they are unintentional. The way thoughts are built is out of your control but you can decide to think and focus on the subject more or not. If you have proper inputs (your whole life experience) in your mind then it may produce a proper thought related to the subject you are focusing on. You eventually get output from your mind when you focus enough on the subject if you have the proper inputs, you then judge the thought, either accept it or reject it. Either way, the new output is a new input to your mind.
So,do you decide to focus your thoughts and does that thought come intentionally. If it does, then before you had that thought you decided to focus intentionally. What led to that? When did the intentionality come into the process? at what stage?
No, you focus on a subject and a related thought is built by your mind. For example, you already read what I wrote for you so the subject is your answer. Thoughts are built by your mind after reading my words and when you focus on answering me.
My point is that something sets this ball in motion, this decision to be intentional and focus. But is that X that sets this decision in motion intentional? Or is it a reaction? Unless you are focused all the way back to the womb, the intentional arose from the unintentional reactions...and will again, if it does. So it the whole thing intentional`?
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bahman
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:35 pm
bahman wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:27 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:41 pm
So,do you decide to focus your thoughts and does that thought come intentionally. If it does, then before you had that thought you decided to focus intentionally. What led to that? When did the intentionality come into the process? at what stage?
No, you focus on a subject and a related thought is built by your mind. For example, you already read what I wrote for you so the subject is your answer. Thoughts are built by your mind after reading my words and when you focus on answering me.
My point is that something sets this ball in motion, this decision to be intentional and focus. But is that X that sets this decision in motion intentional? Or is it a reaction? Unless you are focused all the way back to the womb, the intentional arose from the unintentional reactions...and will again, if it does. So it the whole thing intentional`?
Your mind sets things in motion. Sometimes it does it purposefully sometimes not (like the example provided in OP).
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henry quirk
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by henry quirk »

Your mind sets things in motion.
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Walker
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by Walker »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:41 pm
Your mind sets things in motion.
455A0786-F6AA-4E3E-97A1-673763EB88B9.jpeg
I was never too picky about coffee. Then, everything changed. About a week ago one of the clan gave us 5 lbs. of roasted coffee beans. We keep them sealed in a cool, dim corner of the castle next to a grinder with some auto features. Press a button and within seconds there's enough fresh grounds for a couple of cups. It's well worth the little extra effort to preserve the freshness and now that I know the proper Java path (PJP), now that I have awakened, I really have no choice about grinding those beans. :wink:
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henry quirk
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by henry quirk »

Walker wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:46 pm
henry quirk wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:41 pm
Your mind sets things in motion.
455A0786-F6AA-4E3E-97A1-673763EB88B9.jpeg
I was never too picky about coffee. Then, everything changed. About a week ago one of the clan gave us 5 lbs. of roasted coffee beans. We keep them sealed in a cool, dim corner of the castle next to a grinder with some auto features. Press a button and within seconds there's enough fresh grounds for a couple of cups. It's well worth the little extra effort to preserve the freshness and now that I know the proper Java path (PJP), now that I have awakened, I really have no choice about grinding those beans. :wink:
I drink the coffee version of rotgut: nuthin' else will do. The fru-fru stuff, with its nuance, it's just hot water.

Daddy needs heart-joltin' stuff. And tobacco...lots and lots of tobacco.
Walker
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Re: Experiment to show your state of delusion

Post by Walker »

:lol:

Be ye master or slave of the smoke?
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