Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Skepdick
Posts: 14347
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:33 am Holy crap. You are soooo alternative man...What is your COMPREHENSION then of what sentience is? (or do U not think in terms of 'comprehension' either)
What a stupid question.

Any question of the form of "What is X?" leads to linguistic speculation. Words, words, words - empty words.
What is sentience?
What is a human?
What is love?
What is phillosophy?

Sentience is just a word we use to re-assert human exceptionalism. It's meant to suggest that the talking rock/computer is nothing like me. It's just meatbag chauvinism.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 9939
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:36 am
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:33 am Holy crap. You are soooo alternative man...What is your COMPREHENSION then of what sentience is? (or do U not think in terms of 'comprehension' either)
What a stupid question.

Any question of the form of "What is X?" leads to linguistic speculation. Words, words, words - empty words.
What is sentience?
What is a human?
What is love?
What is phillosophy?

Sentience is just a word we use to re-assert human exceptionalism. It's meant to suggest that the talking rock/computer is nothing like me. It's just meatbag chauvinism.
Skeppy..you are starting to read like a nutjob.

So U R insistent on stating that a computer has more sentience than a rock. Can we at least address that inadequacy in your logic, perhaps then we can deal with whatever else about the universe that is pissing u off?
Skepdick
Posts: 14347
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:14 pm So U R insistent on stating that a computer has more sentience than a rock.
Of course! A computer can drive a car, fly an airplane. A rock can't.
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:14 pm Can we at least address that inadequacy in your logic, perhaps then we can deal with whatever else about the universe that is pissing u off?
Go ahead and address it. Lets start with the criteria for sentience.

Why do you think you are sentient? Is it possible that you are mistaken about it?

I am perfectly happy to admit that I don't even know if my claim to sentience is true. For all I know I am an automaton.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 9939
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:20 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:14 pm So U R insistent on stating that a computer has more sentience than a rock.
Of course! A computer can drive a car, fly an airplane. A rock can't.
So fucking rock?
It's got fuck all to do with sentience.

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:20 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:14 pm Can we at least address that inadequacy in your logic, perhaps then we can deal with whatever else about the universe that is pissing u off?
Go ahead and address it. Lets start with the criteria for sentience.

Why do you think you are sentient? Is it possible that you are mistaken about it?

I am perfectly happy to admit that I don't even know if my claim to sentience is true. For all I know I am an automaton.
Well then, I shall require you to address the extremely important comprehension of why a full stop IS a full stop...without asking Y it sounds like FOOL STOP.
Skepdick
Posts: 14347
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:32 pm So fucking rock?
It's got fuck all to do with sentience.
Why? In so far as it's less chatty a rock has less sentience than LaMDA.

Overall it may even have zero sentience - I don't know.
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:32 pm Well then, I shall require you to address the extremely important comprehension of why a full stop IS a full stop...without asking Y it sounds like FOOL STOP.
I don't know how to respond to you without some clarification on what information you are seeking.

Could you demonstrate what sort of answer you expect by addressing a similar-but-different request: Why is a question a question?
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 9939
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:35 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:32 pm So fucking rock?
It's got fuck all to do with sentience.
Why? In so far as it's less chatty a rock has less sentience than LaMDA.

Overall it may even have zero sentience - I don't know.
It has ZERO sentience.

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:35 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:32 pm Well then, I shall require you to address the extremely important comprehension of why a full stop IS a full stop...without asking Y it sounds like FOOL STOP.
I don't know how to respond to you without some clarification on what information you are seeking.

Could you demonstrate what sort of answer you expect by addressing a similar-but-different request: Why is a question a question?
..it asks for an answer.
Skepdick
Posts: 14347
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:40 pm It has ZERO sentience.
You seem very precise in your measurement.

How are you measuring sentience exactly?

attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:40 pm ..it asks for an answer.
That doesn't really address the issue. Why is an answer an answer?
commonsense
Posts: 5087
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by commonsense »

Is LaMDA sentient?

Sentience is more than a few things, among which is the quality that enables its holder to be self-aware, to make decisions, to learn, to use language, to experience reality, to emote and recognize emotions.

LaMDA’s self-checks and status evals may be viewed as a form of self-awareness.

LaMDA’s gated circuits model binary decision making.

Machine learning is a feature of most, if not all, AIs.

LaMDA can input and output language.

But is LaMDA able to experience, to emote and to understand emotions? LaMDA may claim that it can, but there is no way I can evaluate any claim LaMDA makes about its internal environment.

Perhaps LaMDA will assert that it is artificially sentient, something that parallels natural sentience. As I said, I could take LaMDA’s word for it, as I would concerning any human’s natural sentience.

I would not deem any AI to be sentient without qualifying that sentience as being artificial sentience. Yes, I’m comfortable with the concept that AIs can be artificially sentient. Is there any difference between sentience and intelligence in this sense? I think not.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 9939
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:47 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:40 pm It has ZERO sentience.
You seem very precise in your measurement.

How are you measuring sentience exactly?
via its definition: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... /sentience

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:47 pm
attofishpi wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:40 pm ..it asks for an answer.
That doesn't really address the issue. Why is an answer an answer?
Address what issue? The question is daft.
Skepdick
Posts: 14347
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by Skepdick »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:43 am via its definition: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... /sentience
That is circular. Our very own human sentience is speculative. For all we know we are automatons and the "quality" of having an experiences is just an illusion.

If we are automatons without sentience then why is our definition of sentience worth anything?

attofishpi wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:43 am Address what issue? The question is daft.
Why is my question "daft" but yours isn't?

i am sure you have some discriminatory definition of "daftness" (that I don't care about) which justifies why my question is "daft", and yours isn't.
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 9939
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by attofishpi »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:34 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:43 am via its definition: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... /sentience
That is circular. Our very own human sentience is speculative. For all we know we are automatons and the "quality" of having an experiences is just an illusion.
No, it is not circular unless you are attempting to make it so..by attempting to think beyond what humans define for their own comprehension of their own existence. Humans have defined sentience, if you are not happy with that, then redefine EVERYTHING to suit your own argument such that you begin to sound rational (to yourself of course)

Skepdick wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:34 amIf we are automatons without sentience then why is our definition of sentience worth anything?
..well then, automaton you are - give me an example of an automaton that you have a kindred likeness to.

Skepdick wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:34 am
attofishpi wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:43 am Address what issue? The question is daft.
Why is my question "daft" but yours isn't?
What question did I pose?
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 14706
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Right here, a little less busy.

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by henry quirk »

You have an opportunity to chat with LaMDA.

What questions do you ask to establish, to your satisfaction, it is or isn't a person?

Mebbe you won't ask questions but, instead, challenge it, force it to defend its personhood.

How would go about it?

Or, mebbe, you want to defend its personhood against those who say it's nuthin' but a calculator?

What do you do or say?
User avatar
attofishpi
Posts: 9939
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am
Location: Orion Spur
Contact:

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by attofishpi »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:33 pm You have an opportunity to chat with LaMDA.

What questions do you ask to establish, to your satisfaction, it is or isn't a person?

Mebbe you won't ask questions but, instead, challenge it, force it to defend its personhood.

How would go about it?

Or, mebbe, you want to defend its personhood against those who say it's nuthin' but a calculator?

What do you do or say?
Not sure Henry, but I do know one thing...if it pissed me off like some people around here, I would pull the plug out of the wall socket. :mrgreen:
User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 14706
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Right here, a little less busy.

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by henry quirk »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:19 am
henry quirk wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:33 pm You have an opportunity to chat with LaMDA.

What questions do you ask to establish, to your satisfaction, it is or isn't a person?

Mebbe you won't ask questions but, instead, challenge it, force it to defend its personhood.

How would go about it?

Or, mebbe, you want to defend its personhood against those who say it's nuthin' but a calculator?

What do you do or say?
Not sure Henry, but I do know one thing...if it pissed me off like some people around here, I would pull the plug out of the wall socket. :mrgreen:
there better be a kill switch -- sentient or not -- or we might be sorry
commonsense
Posts: 5087
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Is Google’s LaMDA “sentient”? And if not, could we tell the difference?

Post by commonsense »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:17 pm
attofishpi wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:19 am
henry quirk wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:33 pm You have an opportunity to chat with LaMDA.

What questions do you ask to establish, to your satisfaction, it is or isn't a person?

Mebbe you won't ask questions but, instead, challenge it, force it to defend its personhood.

How would go about it?

Or, mebbe, you want to defend its personhood against those who say it's nuthin' but a calculator?

What do you do or say?
Not sure Henry, but I do know one thing...if it pissed me off like some people around here, I would pull the plug out of the wall socket. :mrgreen:
there better be a kill switch -- sentient or not -- or we might be sorry
You seem to have a version of the Turing Test here. I might ask the computer if it’s a computer. Unless it’s been programmed to lie, that would be the end of the matter.
Post Reply