Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Age
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:57 am One cannot know Consciousness. One can only BE Consciousness. One IS Consciousness..
BUT, according to the 'one' known as "dontaskme' CLAIMS that the KNOWN can NOT KNOW It Self. However, now 'you' are CONTRADICTING "your" OWN 'self' AGAIN.
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:57 am Being is Knowing in the exact same instance of experience.
So, the One KNOWN as Consciousness, 'you' KNOW the one and ONLY One Being can KNOW Its Self.

'you' KNOW the Knower?
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:57 am Everything else is an idea imposed upon pure being experience.
To know you know is a knowledge which is a plagiarism of someone else's idea.
WHO and/or WHAT, EXACTLY, are these "someone elses"?
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:57 am Life itself is the ONE and only authentic teaching experience. Learning from a book or from lectures is not enough, one has to learn though the direct experience of being life itself which is Consciousness. In other words, every objective 'thing' KNOWN is made of Consciousness that in and of itself cannot be known, it can only BE.
.
BUT, 'you' just SAID and CLAIMED that One IS 'Consciousness'. Therefore, 'It', or more correctly 'I', CAN be KNOWN, and, in Fact, do KNOW. AND, am KNOWN as 'I'.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:34 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:57 am One cannot know Consciousness. One can only BE Consciousness. One IS Consciousness.. Being is Knowing in the exact same instance of experience.
Everything else is an idea imposed upon pure being experience.
To know you know is a knowledge which is a plagiarism of someone else's idea.
Life itself is the ONE and only authentic teaching experience. Learning from a book or from lectures is not enough, one has to learn though the direct experience of being life itself which is Consciousness. In other words, every objective 'thing' KNOWN is made of Consciousness that in and of itself cannot be known, it can only BE.


.
Since it features so prominently in that quoted observation, the question thus becomes, can one contemplate consciousness without using any form of the verb, “TO BE.”

If so, one can use that pathway for transcending I-DEN-TI-TY, and lounging on the OB-JEC-TIV-ITY Plateau, at least while contemplating consciousness.

:D
'consciousness' is just being aware.

'Consciousness' is just Being AWARE of ALL 'things', including Being AWARE of 'Who 'I' am, EXACTLY'.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:18 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:57 am One cannot know Consciousness. One can only BE Consciousness. One IS Consciousness..
BUT, according to the 'one' known as "dontaskme' CLAIMS that the KNOWN can NOT KNOW It Self. However, now 'you' are CONTRADICTING "your" OWN 'self' AGAIN.

Dontaskme is a known concept of consciousness. There is only consciousness. A concept known knows nothing.

As consciousness you are the knowing that cannot be known. You are one without a second.

I do not know why you find this so difficult to understand, be that as it may, you will continue to not understand until you do.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am
Age wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:18 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:57 am One cannot know Consciousness. One can only BE Consciousness. One IS Consciousness..
BUT, according to the 'one' known as "dontaskme' CLAIMS that the KNOWN can NOT KNOW It Self. However, now 'you' are CONTRADICTING "your" OWN 'self' AGAIN.

Dontaskme is a known concept of consciousness. There is only consciousness. A concept known knows nothing.
BUT 'you' just TOLD us what 'you', "dontaskme", the known concept KNOWS.

SO, there is some 'thing' that that known concept KNOWS.

ONCE AGAIN, 'you' are CONTRADICTING "your" OWN 'self'.
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am As consciousness you are the knowing that cannot be known. You are one without a second.
Can 'you' REALLY NOT SEE the CONTRADICTION here?
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am I do not know why you find this so difficult to understand, be that as it may, you will continue to not understand until you do.
EVERY time 'you' SAY and CLAIM things like, "you are the knowing", then 'you' are ADMITTING 'you' KNOW 'things', which, OBVIOUSLY, CONTRADICTS your OTHER CLAIM that 'you' KNOW NOTHING.

Do 'you' REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND 'this' YET?
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:03 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am
Age wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:18 am

BUT, according to the 'one' known as "dontaskme' CLAIMS that the KNOWN can NOT KNOW It Self. However, now 'you' are CONTRADICTING "your" OWN 'self' AGAIN.

Dontaskme is a known concept of consciousness. There is only consciousness. A concept known knows nothing.
BUT 'you' just TOLD us what 'you', "dontaskme", the known concept KNOWS.

SO, there is some 'thing' that that known concept KNOWS.

ONCE AGAIN, 'you' are CONTRADICTING "your" OWN 'self'.
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am As consciousness you are the knowing that cannot be known. You are one without a second.
Can 'you' REALLY NOT SEE the CONTRADICTION here?
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am I do not know why you find this so difficult to understand, be that as it may, you will continue to not understand until you do.
EVERY time 'you' SAY and CLAIM things like, "you are the knowing", then 'you' are ADMITTING 'you' KNOW 'things', which, OBVIOUSLY, CONTRADICTS your OTHER CLAIM that 'you' KNOW NOTHING.

Do 'you' REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND 'this' YET?
No! I am not contradicting myself.

It is you who is contradicting yourself, then blaming me for what you are doing.

.
Age
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:14 pm
Age wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:03 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am
Dontaskme is a known concept of consciousness. There is only consciousness. A concept known knows nothing.
BUT 'you' just TOLD us what 'you', "dontaskme", the known concept KNOWS.

SO, there is some 'thing' that that known concept KNOWS.

ONCE AGAIN, 'you' are CONTRADICTING "your" OWN 'self'.
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am As consciousness you are the knowing that cannot be known. You are one without a second.
Can 'you' REALLY NOT SEE the CONTRADICTION here?
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:07 am I do not know why you find this so difficult to understand, be that as it may, you will continue to not understand until you do.
EVERY time 'you' SAY and CLAIM things like, "you are the knowing", then 'you' are ADMITTING 'you' KNOW 'things', which, OBVIOUSLY, CONTRADICTS your OTHER CLAIM that 'you' KNOW NOTHING.

Do 'you' REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND 'this' YET?
No! I am not contradicting myself.

It is you who is contradicting yourself, then blaming me for what you are doing.

.
LOL

1. You have previously CLAIMED that CONTRADICTING "yourself" is what you do BECAUSE this is how things ARE.

2. SHOW where I have supposedly contradicted "myself".

3. 'your' just replying to me here when you have previously SAID and CLAIMED that you would NEVER reply to me again IS 'you', "dontaskme", literally, CONTRADICTING "yourself", ONCE AGAIN.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:00 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:14 pm
Age wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:03 pm

BUT 'you' just TOLD us what 'you', "dontaskme", the known concept KNOWS.

SO, there is some 'thing' that that known concept KNOWS.

ONCE AGAIN, 'you' are CONTRADICTING "your" OWN 'self'.


Can 'you' REALLY NOT SEE the CONTRADICTION here?


EVERY time 'you' SAY and CLAIM things like, "you are the knowing", then 'you' are ADMITTING 'you' KNOW 'things', which, OBVIOUSLY, CONTRADICTS your OTHER CLAIM that 'you' KNOW NOTHING.

Do 'you' REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND 'this' YET?
No! I am not contradicting myself.

It is you who is contradicting yourself, then blaming me for what you are doing.

.
LOL

1. You have previously CLAIMED that CONTRADICTING "yourself" is what you do BECAUSE this is how things ARE.

2. SHOW where I have supposedly contradicted "myself".

3. 'your' just replying to me here when you have previously SAID and CLAIMED that you would NEVER reply to me again IS 'you', "dontaskme", literally, CONTRADICTING "yourself", ONCE AGAIN.
The contradiction is with you not me.

Do not place what is there with you here where it isn’t. The fact that you do this all the time is irritatingly annoying and is the ONLY reason I am talking to you again, since you do not seem to be capable of understanding that everything is consciousness the only knowing there is that cannot be known.

The fact that you keep telling me I am contradicting myself when I know I am not makes you a psychopathic narcissist.
And that’s the problem with you that only you can figure out.



Your the one that keeps replying to me, and you do this because you love to cause conflict and contradiction. It’s a common trait among idiots.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Dontaskme »

Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:40 am
So, do you "agree" so far?
Theories of consciousness will remain in the realm of pure speculation.

Consciousness cannot be known in the context of a ''something'' that we can measure with an instrument. We cannot touch it, because we are it.

Any attempt to explain what consciousness is and where it comes from would be akin to ( the contents of consciousness looking for consciousness) which is absurd...and would be like a tooth trying to bite itself, or a fish becoming fully aware of the water it is swimming in to be separate from itself.

Consciousness is one without a second.

The concept of (second) is known because you simply ARE prior to any knowing. .

"I know that I know nothing" is a saying derived from Plato's account of the Greek philosopher Socrates.This concept implies two...A knower and the known. But there is no split there, for knower is the known in the exact same instant of conceptual knowing.


Consciousness is ONE..Every thing else is imagination...a painting upon a blank canvas of not-knowing, known ONLY in the painting. "I am the consummate artist I draw upon my imagination!"

Am I in the painting, or is the painting in I.


The solipsism problem thwarts efforts to explain consciousness. Scientists and philosophers have proposed countless contradictory hypotheses about what consciousness is and how it arises.

But the solipsism problem is far more than a technical philosophical matter. It is a paranoid but understandable response to the feelings of solitude that lurk within us all. Even if you reject solipsism as an intellectual position, you sense it, emotionally, whenever you feel estranged from others, whenever you confront the awful truth that you can never know really know another person, and no one can really know you.


.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:55 pm
Age wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:00 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:14 pm

No! I am not contradicting myself.

It is you who is contradicting yourself, then blaming me for what you are doing.

.
LOL

1. You have previously CLAIMED that CONTRADICTING "yourself" is what you do BECAUSE this is how things ARE.

2. SHOW where I have supposedly contradicted "myself".

3. 'your' just replying to me here when you have previously SAID and CLAIMED that you would NEVER reply to me again IS 'you', "dontaskme", literally, CONTRADICTING "yourself", ONCE AGAIN.
The contradiction is with you not me.
WHAT 'contradiction' is, SUPPOSEDLY, with 'me'?
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:55 pm Do not place what is there with you here where it isn’t. The fact that you do this all the time is irritatingly annoying and is the ONLY reason I am talking to you again, since you do not seem to be capable of understanding that everything is consciousness the only knowing there is that cannot be known.
So, to 'you', "dontaskme", a brick is conscious or consciousness, correct?
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:55 pm The fact that you keep telling me I am contradicting myself when I know I am not makes you a psychopathic narcissist.
BUT it has been 'YOU', "dontaskme", who keeps informing us that 'you' HAVE TO CONTRADICT "yourself".

But now you are SAYING and CLAIMING that 'you' are NOT contradicting "yourself".

So, WHICH 'one' is it?
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:55 pm And that’s the problem with you that only you can figure out.
WHAT 'problem'?

I do NOT SEE absolutely ANY 'problem' here AT ALL.

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:55 pm Your the one that keeps replying to me, and you do this because you love to cause conflict and contradiction. It’s a common trait among idiots.
OF COURSE 'I' am replying to 'you'. But, then again, 'I' am NOT the one who SAID that I WOULD NOT.
Scott Mayers
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Scott Mayers »

I tried and apparently proved that I'm not likely going to get anywhere with anyone here. I think I'm going to leave these forums. I honestly don't know where else to go online now for any forums given its the same everywhere. (?) Fuck.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by RCSaunders »

Scott Mayers wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:48 pm I think I'm going to leave these forums. I honestly don't know where else to go online now for any forums given its the same everywhere. (?) Fuck.
Good idea. I think you might feel right at home at any of these:

The SPGB Forum

RedMarx

libcom.org

Goodbye and good luck!
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Dontaskme »

Scott Mayers wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:48 pm I tried and apparently proved that I'm not likely going to get anywhere with anyone here. I think I'm going to leave these forums. I honestly don't know where else to go online now for any forums given its the same everywhere. (?) Fuck.
Arrogant Idiot.

But then what do you except, when only ''my voice'' matters. What an absolutely disgusting comment to make.

If you cannot stand the heat then get out of the kitchen for certain, yeah, why not just build a space rocket and get the hell out of here for good, hopefully set up camp with some other more intelligent creature somewhere else in the universe.

Good luck with that quest.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:50 am
WHAT 'problem'?

I do NOT SEE absolutely ANY 'problem' here AT ALL.

Well of course you cannot see the elephant in the room, you never can see what is always so obviously SEEN by others.

First of all, you replied to me. And you did so by wiping your dirty shoes all over my idea that was supposed to be a pointing to a CLARITY within the realm of the topic CONSCIOUSNESS.

You love to piss over other peoples clarity, and then you laugh your silly little head off. Why, because you are a very unpleasant control freak, who has no idea how to engage in PROPER philosophical discussion. Rather, you use other posters as what you appear to think of as your silly little brainless lab experiments. Well I'm just not going to play your stoooopid moronic game anymore Mr frankenstein.
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Iwannaplato »

Scott Mayers wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:40 am All "conscious" experience involves the following:

(1) A physical organ, namely the brain that originates and is minimally necessary for this phenomena. "Physical organ", as a more general term will be used if comparing these effects to other things, like possibly the heart or some computer. I will use "brain" here more specifically here as minimal but reserve the general term, "physical organ" or "organ" IF we discuss whether this phenemona goes beyond our own brain.

So, do you "agree" so far?
I don't know how we could know this. Consciousness may exist where there are different or less functions that brains offer. IOW an awareness without the skills to communicate (or we lack the ability to listen and consider).
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Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:50 am
Age wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:50 am
WHAT 'problem'?

I do NOT SEE absolutely ANY 'problem' here AT ALL.

Well of course you cannot see the elephant in the room, you never can see what is always so obviously SEEN by others.

First of all, you replied to me. And you did so by wiping your dirty shoes all over my idea that was supposed to be a pointing to a CLARITY within the realm of the topic CONSCIOUSNESS.

You love to piss over other peoples clarity, and then you laugh your silly little head off. Why, because you are a very unpleasant control freak, who has no idea how to engage in PROPER philosophical discussion. Rather, you use other posters as what you appear to think of as your silly little brainless lab experiments. Well I'm just not going to play your stoooopid moronic game anymore Mr frankenstein.
This would be about the fourth or fifth time 'you' have made this CLAIM "dontaskme".
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