Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Iwannaplato
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:33 pm
Why don't you give it a go and see how much he wants it.

:|
I don't know how you define those terms or what you mean by them.
popeye1945
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 am

Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by popeye1945 »

The consciousness we think of often as being brain dependent but I think that is naive certainly any organism is conscious. We ourselves are multicellular organisms and as such this multicellularism has created a brain, the brain did not create the multicellularism/read body, read brain, a community of cells, organs and organisms did. To my way of thinking anything which can react to its environment either within the context of a living organism or the totality which is the organism itself is conscious. Reaction is experience, is process is understanding and reaction is consciousness. The cause is the physical world in relation to our physical biology. Reaction is how we experience and have the confidence to move within the world context. Reaction is how organisms adapt to the slow ever change physical world, no reaction no evolutionary development, no life.
Walker
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Walker »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:28 pm
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:33 pm
Why don't you give it a go and see how much he wants it.

:|
I don't know how you define those terms or what you mean by them.
Hi playtoo.

you = playtoo
Give it a go = try
see = observing, and perhaps understanding
how much = to what degree
he = Age
wants = thinks he needs
it = your understanding of consciousness

Put it all together: Why doesn't playtoo try and observe, and perhaps understand, to what degree Age thinks he needs your understanding of consciousness.
Age
Posts: 20205
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:29 am
Age wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:59 am
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:48 am
'mind' is 'mind'. 'Consciousness' is 'Consciousness'. EXACTLY.
In other words, 'you', "walker", have NO ACTUAL IDEA NOR CLUE, correct?
That is an illogical conclusion based on the exact response that you requested.
ONCE AGAIN, here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of just HOW QUICKLY, SIMPLY, and EASILY ASSUMPTIONS lead people ASTRAY.

You, OBVIOUSLY, do NOT YET KNOW what the EXACT RESPONSE was that I was requesting. You just ASSUME and/or BELIEVE you do.

WHY would 'you' even begin to THINK that 'you' would KNOW what the EXACT RESPONSE IS that I REQUESTED?

Have you NOT YET HEARD of GAINING CLARIFICATION BEFORE 'you' START ASSUMING 'things'?
Age
Posts: 20205
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:40 am
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:29 am That is an illogical conclusion based on the exact response that you requested.
One could argue that is what he requested or one could go by what one knows he wanted which was likely a useful definition using words other than the word being defined.
See, HERE is PURE COMMONSENSE.

Thank you "iwannaplato".
Age
Posts: 20205
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Age »

Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:33 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:40 am
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:29 am That is an illogical conclusion based on the exact response that you requested.
One could argue that is what he requested or one could go by what one knows he wanted which was likely a useful definition using words other than the word being defined.
Maybe. Maybe instead of getting what he wanted, he got what he needs.
And what would you now like to propose that I NEED?
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:33 pm
... a useful definition using words other than the word being defined.
Why don't you give it a go and see how much he wants it.

:|
I suggest ANY one who WANTS to 'TRY TO' CLAIM that they KNOW, without ANY doubt AT ALL, EXACTLY what they are TALKING ABOUT, then they, at least, be ABLE TO define the ACTUAL WORDS that they USE, especially here in a philosophy forum.
Iwannaplato
Posts: 6666
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: Consciousness....a careful step by step analysis....

Post by Iwannaplato »

Walker wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:06 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:28 pm
Walker wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:33 pm
Why don't you give it a go and see how much he wants it.

:|
I don't know how you define those terms or what you mean by them.
Hi playtoo.

you = playtoo
Give it a go = try
see = observing, and perhaps understanding
how much = to what degree
he = Age
wants = thinks he needs
it = your understanding of consciousness

Put it all together: Why doesn't playtoo try and observe, and perhaps understand, to what degree Age thinks he needs your understanding of consciousness.
Why don't I see to what degree he thinks he needs my understanding of consciousness. Nothing to do with his wanting to see your definition of consciousness. Which is what I suggested.
For a few moments I thought you were presenting the Irrelevant and confused, again.
But, OK, fine, for your strange effort, I suddenly now believe you weren't being disingenous with him. You really thought that was what he needed, a couple of tautologies, even though he didn't want them. You were kindly giving him what he needs and you know what he needs.
I am convinced of your ingenuousness.
I, however, want to avoid you and so I will. And fortunately avoiding you is not dependent on you actually responding to what I write or on you doing anything at all. Perhaps you will think or claim that I need to carry out your irrelevant tasks. But I won't know about this.
Lovely.
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