Thinking is the ability of mind

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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jayjacobus
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by jayjacobus »

popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
It is not known what created the mind.
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

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Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:50 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:42 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:37 pm

Yeah, but they're not conscious. So, they don't experience qualia. I'm not sure how you know they create qualia, also. I mean, doesn't the conscious mind create qualia? If it doesn't then it isn't fully mind. And if it doesn't then it doesn't need the subconscious mind to create them.
The subconscious mind is conscious. How could properly function if it is not?
Then it is not subconscious. and then why must it be conscious. It merely needs to be affected by things.
I just want to make a distinction between my mind and other minds that reside in my body.
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

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Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:51 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:41 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:35 pm
that doesn't seem to relate to what I wrote.
It is. Consciousness is the ability of the mind, the ability to experience.
I think it's a property, not an ability.
Ok, that seems better word to use.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:19 pm I just want to make a distinction between my mind and other minds that reside in my body.
OK, but how could you know they are conscious. They could merely be complicated systems that react in complicated ways to external and internation stimuli. Unless you share consciousness with them or are them sometimes.
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bahman
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

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Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:19 pm I just want to make a distinction between my mind and other minds that reside in my body.
OK, but how could you know they are conscious. They could merely be complicated systems that react in complicated ways to external and internation stimuli. Unless you share consciousness with them or are them sometimes.
I have an argument so-called argument of motion in which I show that a conscious mind is needed for any change. Therefore, there must be other minds in my body that are responsible for other changes that I am not in charge of them.

And yes, I talk with my other minds.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:12 pm
Age wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:35 am
bahman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:35 pm
The language barrier, maybe.


I didn't say so.
So, what did you say so, EXACTLY?
bahman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:35 pm I don't believe in God.
I NEVER said, NOR even implied, that you did.
You don't know what I am talking about. Do you?
You do NOT KNOW what 'it' IS that I am talking about, do you?

What you WERE talking about, in relation to what I responded to, was about NOTHING about what I ACTUALLY SAID, and MEANT.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:14 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:56 am
bahman wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:00 pm There is no strong emergence (this is discussed here). This means that the brain cannot possibly have a property that the parts don't have. The brain thinks. Therefore, thinking is the property of parts/minds (mind being irreducible substance with abilities to experience, think, decide and cause).
Well, given that you mention the unconscious mind as one of the parts, it does not share, then, the emergent property of consciousness, by definition. Even it if can carry out some/many functions.
In such a system, the brain, for example, we have a hierarchy of minds, the conscious mind which is you, and subconscious minds which are other minds that take care of other things.
If I am the conscious mind and he subconscious minds are other minds that do other stuff, I've got an emergent property: consciousness.
Mind, by definition, is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause quale.
This is "bahman's definition", which, OBVIOUSLY, does NOT necessarily FIT IN with the OTHER definitions USED for words when describing and illustrating the True and Right PICTURE of 'things'.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:35 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:14 pm
If I am the conscious mind and he subconscious minds are other minds that do other stuff, I've got an emergent property: consciousness.
Mind, by definition, is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause quale.
that doesn't seem to relate to what I wrote.
A GREAT DEAL of "bahman's" responses do NOT relate to what "others" ACTUALLY WRITE.

This is because "bahman's" UNCHANGING BELIEFS about what is right or true PREVENT "bahman" from ACTUALLY SEEING and UNDERSTANDING what "others" are POINTING OUT and SAYING.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:41 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:35 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:14 pm
Mind, by definition, is an irreducible substance with the ability to experience and cause quale.
that doesn't seem to relate to what I wrote.
It is. Consciousness is the ability of the mind, the ability to experience.
What do you mean by 'experience' here?

Can nerve endings on a body have the ability to 'experience'?
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:42 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:37 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:16 pm
The mind cannot be created or destroyed. Subconscious mind tasks are huge, from memory, creating quale, etc.
Yeah, but they're not conscious. So, they don't experience qualia. I'm not sure how you know they create qualia, also. I mean, doesn't the conscious mind create qualia? If it doesn't then it isn't fully mind. And if it doesn't then it doesn't need the subconscious mind to create them.
The subconscious mind is conscious. How could properly function if it is not?
You CLAIM there are at least two minds, in the WHOLE of the Universe. (You even CLAIM that they existed BEFORE the Universe even cam into existence, not this matters here, correct?) So, HOW MANY of these so-called "subconscious minds" are there existing?
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

jayjacobus wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:55 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
It is not known what created the mind.
Thee Mind, just like thee Universe, were NOT 'created'.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:19 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:50 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:42 pm
The subconscious mind is conscious. How could properly function if it is not?
Then it is not subconscious. and then why must it be conscious. It merely needs to be affected by things.
I just want to make a distinction between my mind and other minds that reside in my body.
If 'I' has 'a mind', which is what you are SAYING and MEANING when 'you' write; "my mind", then that MEANS that that 'I' existed BEFORE 'the mind'. BUT, you ALSO SAY 'the mind' existed BEFORE or CREATED the Universe.

As I have EXPLAINED to you PREVIOUSLY "bahman" the MORE you SPEAK the MORE you CONTRADICT "your" OWN 'self'.

Although what is KNOWN, deep down WITHIN 'you', and which you are 'trying to' CONVEY and EXPRESS here, is IRREFUTABLY True, Right, AND Correct, the WAY 'you' are EXPRESSING 'It' is ONLY UNDOING what 'you' are 'TRYING TO' achieve here.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:19 pm I just want to make a distinction between my mind and other minds that reside in my body.
OK, but how could you know they are conscious. They could merely be complicated systems that react in complicated ways to external and internation stimuli.
As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVED here through the 'reactions' made during external discussion, or internation stimuli', and responses, and which the internalizations are EXPRESSED CLEARLY here.

'you', adult human beings, COMPLICATE 'that' what is ESSENTIALLY NOT.
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 pm Unless you share consciousness with them or are them sometimes.
SHARED 'consciousness' is WHERE thee Truth is ACTUALLY FOUND, and by the way, what IS thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.
Age
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by Age »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:37 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:22 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:19 pm I just want to make a distinction between my mind and other minds that reside in my body.
OK, but how could you know they are conscious. They could merely be complicated systems that react in complicated ways to external and internation stimuli. Unless you share consciousness with them or are them sometimes.
I have an argument so-called argument of motion in which I show that a conscious mind is needed for any change.
This argument has ALREADY BEEN SHOWN, and thus PROVED, to be FAULTY.

You CLAIM the Universe BEGAN, from NO THING. Which, OBVIOUSLY, CONTRADICTS that the change NEEDED for the Universe to BEGIN came from SOME 'thing', namely a 'conscious mind'.
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:37 pm Therefore, there must be other minds in my body that are responsible for other changes that I am not in charge of them.
LOL
LOL
LOL

So, now 'you' have MANY so-called "conscious minds" in that body.

EXACTLY HOW MANY of these 'conscious minds' do you PROPOSE there ARE in that body?
bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 4:37 pm And yes, I talk with my other minds.
So, WHO, EXACTLY, is this 'I' who talking with 'It's' MANY, so-called "other" "minds"?

And, WHY do 'you' just NOT have ONE "mind" ONLY? Why did 'you' CHOOSE to HAVE and OWN MANY "conscious" and "subconscious" "minds"?

By the way, do 'you' HAVE and OWN ANY "unconscious minds"?

If no, then WHY NOT?

There are, after all, "unsconcious minds", right?
popeye1945
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Re: Thinking is the ability of mind

Post by popeye1945 »

bahman wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:16 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm Is not the subconscious mind just the consciousness of the body, it was after all the body that created the mind, not the mind that created the body.
The mind cannot be created or destroyed. Subconscious mind tasks are huge, from memory, creating quale, etc.
bahman,

The mind cannot be created or destroyed is a nonsense statement, it is destroyed everyday and the fact that all things are temporal in nature makes your statement absurd.
Last edited by popeye1945 on Sat May 14, 2022 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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